[bbophead]

Go for it!

 

[koiloco]

   
You're right - apologies.
 
Sometimes the BS factor in some sectors of the audiophile marketplace gets a bit much - all of those BS terms I used above came from the product spiels for pricey USB cable and power cable ...etc I was given to try. None of them made an ounce of difference to SQ, but the marketing blurb was hilarious - USB Cable that overcomes "interphase distortion" and Power Cables that provide a solution for "magnetic resistance", and don't forget to burn in your expensive cables so that they will align to the "ground plane" of your system ... What? Reading this stuff makes me want to cut myself, or laugh, or both simultaneously.

+1.  You said it all.
 
Personally, I don't mind ppl spending their hard earned $ any way they see fit but promoting such subjective beliefs is, IMO, negative to the community overall.

 

[Stereolab42]

  +1.  You said it all.
 
Personally, I don't mind ppl spending their hard earned $ any way they see fit but promoting such subjective beliefs is, IMO, negative to the community overall.

 
I'd be careful saying that as a fellow owner of a tube amp... the hardcore objectivists love to trot out THD graphs and so on that pretty solidly demonstrate that tube amps are objectively inferior to solid-state. (Which has nothing to do with whether they sound better, of course.)

 

[bonesnv]

  +1.  You said it all.
 
Personally, I don't mind ppl spending their hard earned $ any way they see fit but promoting such subjective beliefs is, IMO, negative to the community overall.

 
Everything about this hobby is subjective. 
 
 
Hell, tubes are subjective depending on who you ask.

 

[bbophead]

 

  +1.  You said it all.
 
Personally, I don't mind ppl spending their hard earned $ any way they see fit but promoting such subjective beliefs is, IMO, negative to the community overall.

 
Everything about this hobby is subjective. 
 
 
Hell, tubes are subjective depending on who you ask.

As well as transistors.

 

[koiloco]

There's a difference between sound signature preference(tube vs SS) and components such as pwr cable and audiophile fuse.  If one can't distinguish between the two, I would like not to further this conversation.  Spend your $ as you see fit just please don't say things like a $1000 digital cable would make the 0's and 1's better.  

 

 

[Silent One]

 Wait...this (in my BIG O) is about more than simply 1's & 0's. Cable length (think timing and errors) and construction will have something to say. No?

Then choose any number of throw-a-way USB cables - name your gadget and you'll discover a USB cable included) in your system. Okay, for at least 30 days and report back, I mean who doesn't love to save money?! 
 
Like running water, many of your experiences will vary, but...

 

[Badas]

 

 Wait...this (in my BIG O) is about more than simply 1's & 0's. Cable length (think timing and errors) and construction will have something to say. No?

Then choose any number of throw-a-way USB cables - name your gadget and you'll discover a USB cable included) in your system. Okay, for at least 30 days and report back, I mean who doesn't love to save money?! 
 
Like running water, many of your experiences will vary, but...

Yes and No. If there was a quality drop off you would hear it. It would be distorted. If the 1's and 0's have reached the target device then a expensive cable would not have made any difference. It is not like analog where quality can drop off. Digital is digital. The end device doesn't care how it got there.
 
This is where HDMI is handy. It either works or not. If the cable length is too long then the signal can't do the security communication and the signal is cut. If everything is fine it communicates and signal is sent. Once again it gets it's 1's and 0's and doesn't care what cable provided the info.

 

[Stereolab42]

  There's a difference between sound signature preference(tube vs SS) and components such as pwr cable and audiophile fuse.  If one can't distinguish between the two, I would like not to further this conversation.  Spend your $ as you see fit just please don't say things like a $1000 digital cable would make the 0's and 1's better.  

 

 
Nope, not that simple. This is where a deeper understanding of the digital protocol comes in handy. USB audio streaming is typically implemented using the isochronous transfer type, which has error detection but not error correction. This means corrupted packets are not resent, and the DAC must cover for them, to the detriment of SQ.
 
In contrast if you have an external USB SATA drive, that uses the bulk transfer type, which does have error correction. (This also applies to internal SATA cables, which is why audiophile SATA cables are, in fact, bunk.) So while the music data coming off your HD may be reaching your motherboard just fine, the data going back into your DAC may run into issues.
 
Combine this understanding with the fact that the longer and cheaper your USB cable, and the higher bandwidth of the data being transferred (for example, high-res audio), the more likely you'll see errors. There's a reason the USB 2.0 specification provides for maximum cable lengths. I would also point out that video over HDMI does not have error correction, so the above discussion applies to HDMI cables as well. Try running a cheap HDMI cable 75' and see what I mean... it's not going to cut out all at once, I'm afraid.
 
Any more questions?

 

[bfreedma]

Just one.

Your description above is largely correct though there are a few oversimplifications, but for the sake of argument, it's accurate enough.

How does that support the conclusion that a 6' audiophile digital cable will resolve any of them in a way a 6' properly constructed "utility grade" cable would not?

 

[Badas]

   
 I would also point out that video over HDMI does not have error correction, so the above discussion applies to HDMI cables as well. Try running a cheap HDMI cable 75' and see what I mean... it's not going to cut out all at once, I'm afraid.  
Any more questions?

 
Not really a discussion for here. But HDMI either cuts out or produces the sparkling effect where you know you have problems. If it doesn't produce either of these effects you are ready to go. There has been many major shootouts by respected video experts. The HT industry was tearing itself apart with HDMI. The experts all concluded that there was a lot of snake oil being sold. As long as you don't have the two documented problems it didn't matter if the cable was cheap or expensive. Since then all the expensive cables being marketed have gone into the shadows.

 

[Feedbacker]

Struggling to follow all the above clever stuff; Led Zeppelin IV new remastered version coursing through my WA6-SE is all I know, and the world is good!!!
 
Cheers everybody!

 

[Silent One]

 
Yes and No. If there was a quality drop off you would hear it. It would be distorted. If the 1's and 0's have reached the target device then a expensive cable would not have made any difference. It is not like analog where quality can drop off. Digital is digital. The end device doesn't care how it got there.
 
This is where HDMI is handy. It either works or not. If the cable length is too long then the signal can't do the security communication and the signal is cut. If everything is fine it communicates and signal is sent. Once again it gets it's 1's and 0's and doesn't care what cable provided the info.

Not so fast. The whole "It's just 1's & 0's" or "Bits are bits" use to be the mantra and was based on what we knew about Digital Audio. The industry has since learned there's more to it than that. 
 
And to be clear, I'm not suggesting one's system has to have high-end USB cables, overpriced USB cables to make it hop! I am suggesting for those holding on to that mantra to run out and employ generic USB cables, be they from printers, cameras, whatever...and be happy. At the end of the day it's just audio people. 
 
 

  Struggling to follow all the above clever stuff; Led Zeppelin IV new remastered version coursing through my WA6-SE is all I know, and the world is good!!!
 
Cheers everybody!

 

[Badas]

  Not so fast. The whole "It's just 1's & 0's" or "Bits are bits" use to be the mantra and was based on what we knew about Digital Audio. The industry has since learned there's more to it than that. 
 
And to be clear, I'm not suggesting one's system has to have high-end USB cables, overpriced USB cables to make it hop! I am suggesting for those holding on to that mantra to run out and employ generic USB cables, be they from printers, cameras, whatever...and be happy. At the end of the day it's just audio people. 
 
 

 
Oh I agree. I never buy cheap cables and most cables that come with gear get thrown away (Oppo is the exception, their cables are excellent). I think we are on the same page. Just those super expensive cables are a joke. Just like super expensive tubes on fleabay. Shop around and you get the same thing cheaper.
 
For the record I don't use USB on any of my audio. Coax, Optical and Analog only.

 

[TonyNewman]

   
For the record I don't use USB on any of my audio. Coax, Optical and Analog only.

 
You might be missing out, depending on your gear. My Vega DAC has an excellent USB implementation that, to my ears, sounds noticeably better than SPDIF (via co-ax or toslink - doesn't matter).
 
The USB is asynchronous, allowing the Vega to do it's magic in it's own time with the femto clocks and other goodies packed under the hood - result - audibly better sound. At least, that is my understanding - could be wrong in the details - don't care really - what matters is the sound, and for the Vega and my ears, USB trumps SPDIF everytime.
 
I'd suggest you try both SPDIF and USB on your gear and let your ears decide.
 
Not wanting to add more fuel to the cable debate, but I have tried a 1m $300 audiophile USB cable and a 5m $10 USB cable - and I can't hear a difference at all. No difference in drop outs or SQ or anything else using the Vega in 'Exact' clock mode. I believe what I can hear - and fancy USB cables don't make the cut.