[Ahzari]

Quote:

arghhh I was waiting for your advice obobskivich

any opinion about SIgnature pro vs pro2900 ?

Signature Pro are eons ahead of the pro2900s in terms of audio.. its one of the best headphones available for detail retrieval and instrument separation rivaling the HD800 (IMO); unlike the HD800 they have a pretty tiny soudnstage - S-Logic does not work for everyone's ears. Also, the treble is smooth and accurate on the SP (unlike the 2900s).. But I don't think its a fair comparison either, the Signature Pros are flagship reference headphones while I consider the 2900s just open pro900s (with some driver tweaking - similar sound characteristics but definitely not reference quality).
 
Comfort wise I prefer the 2900s because of the larger diameter pads and velour instead of leather. Build is about the same for both, but the SP's get some nice little details like sheepskin leather headband and pads + glass name plate. Note that while the 2900s are open headphones their soundstage is nothing to write home about; at the time I also owned the Denon D7000s which are semi-closed cans and felt the soundstage on them surpassed the 2900s. Comparing the 2900s vs the SP strictly based on soundstage though, the 2900s do better.

 

[Sorrodje]

Signature Pro are eons ahead of the pro2900s in terms of audio.. its one of the best headphones available for detail retrieval and instrument separation rivaling the HD800 (IMO); unlike the HD800 they have a pretty tiny soudnstage - S-Logic does not work for everyone's ears. Also, the treble is smooth and accurate on the SP (unlike the 2900s).. But I don't think its a fair comparison either, the Signature Pros are flagship reference headphones while I consider the 2900s just open pro900s (with some driver tweaking - similar sound characteristics but definitely not reference quality).

Comfort wise I prefer the 2900s because of the larger diameter pads and velour instead of leather. Build is about the same for both, but the SP's get some nice little details like sheepskin leather headband and pads + glass name plate. Note that while the 2900s are open headphones their soundstage is nothing to write home about; at the time I also owned the Denon D7000s which are semi-closed cans and felt the soundstage on them surpassed the 2900s. Comparing the 2900s vs the SP strictly based on soundstage though, the 2900s do better.

Thanks for you answer.

"flagshipness" of my gear really doesn't matter. I only try to satisfy my ears and unfortnunately it's sometimes difficult to understand what they have to say . i'm afraid I must admit I'm definitely not an audiophile.

I only want to enjoy music the better I can.

The point is : I really enjoy each time I put My HFI 2400 over my head and listen to Music. Nevertheless, I purchased recently a cheap KOSS DJ100 which brings me more enjoyment on some specific genre ( For example well known Big Soul Album "Big Soul" ) due to more forward presentation of guitars , voices . Then I realized that maybe HFI-2400 is overall good for my tastes but lacks a bit of forwardness and/or brightness.

I'm quite sure that po2900 is a fix to that ( accordingly to what I read here or therer and especially oboskivitch point of view but I read good reviews in France too).

I think that liking HFI2400 prevents me to be disappointed with the pro2900 . Can I be wrong ?

Do you think Signature pro is a better fix than pro2900 to my need in your opinion ?

 

[Ahzari]

Quote:

Thanks for you answer.
I really don't mind about "fagshipness" of my gear.
I only want to enjoy music. The point is : I really enjoy each time I put My HFI 2400 over my head and listen to about everything.. Nevertheless, I purchased recently a cheap KOSS DJ100 which brings me more enjoyment on some specific genre ( For example well known Big Soul Album "Big Soul" ) due to more forward presentation of guitars , voices . Then I realized that maybe HFI-2400 is overall good for my tastes but lacks a bit of forwardness and/or brightness.
I'm quite sure that po2900 is a fix to that ( accordingly to what I read here or therer and especially obokivitch point of view but I read good reviews in France too).
I think that liking HFI2400 prevents me to be disappointed with the pro2900 . Can I be wrong ?
Do you think Signature pro is a better fix to my need in your opinion ?

If forward and bright character is what you are after then the 2900s will work for you. If enjoyable yet accurate audio experience is what you are after the Signature Pros are a better offering. In my opinion, out of all the Ultrasones I have listened to and owned, the Signature Pros have been their best offering to date. They are the most neutral Ultrasone (which for me is a good thing since the Pro series I owned before were extremely colored favoring treble and bass to midrange); neutral in Ultrasone offerings doesn't mean boring, the treble and bass are still very present but more refined and reach deeper into recordings.
 
That said it really just depends on what you want - short term/ immediate wow factor the 2900s give that more because of their treble and bass presence, but the SP grow on you quickly and are a much better headphone, not because of their "flagship" title, but because the R&D has gone into them to make them one of the most accurate and best sounding closed headphones on the market. Final note - from experience, you get what you pay for (2900s are cheaper for a reason and its not just due to the difference in external materials used).

 

[Sorrodje]

I really appreciate time you and obobskivitch spent to give me advice. thanks

But you don't help me .. i'm still hesitating.

 

[obobskivich]

If forward and bright character is what you are after then the 2900s will work for you. If enjoyable yet accurate audio experience is what you are after the Signature Pros are a better offering. In my opinion, out of all the Ultrasones I have listened to and owned, the Signature Pros have been their best offering to date. They are the most neutral Ultrasone (which for me is a good thing since the Pro series I owned before were extremely colored favoring treble and bass to midrange); neutral in Ultrasone offerings doesn't mean boring, the treble and bass are still very present but more refined and reach deeper into recordings.

That said it really just depends on what you want - short term/ immediate wow factor the 2900s give that more because of their treble and bass presence, but the SP grow on you quickly and are a much better headphone, not because of their "flagship" title, but because the R&D has gone into them to make them one of the most accurate and best sounding closed headphones on the market. Final note - from experience, you get what you pay for (2900s are cheaper for a reason and its not just due to the difference in external materials used).

Again, I haven't heard SigPro, but I have heard other "neutral and accurate" headphones ('stats mostly) - and I would agree with this. The PRO2900 are the king of "wow" headphones imho, but they aren't "flat and accurate." I like both kinds of presentation personally, but it's worth considering one's own preferences at this level of play very seriously. We're very much past the point of "biggering" and talking more about serving personal masters.

 

[Sorrodje]

Oh you're right

Maybe , Sig pro at a good price could be a good option given that I could keep HFI-2400 as a complement. After serious listening, I will know if I prefer the "wow" side of the force or the "flat and accurate" one.

So.. Go for the sig pro .

 

[macrocheesium]

Quote:

The point is : I really enjoy each time I put My HFI 2400 over my head and listen to Music. Nevertheless, I purchased recently a cheap KOSS DJ100 which brings me more enjoyment on some specific genre ( For example well known Big Soul Album "Big Soul" ) due to more forward presentation of guitars , voices . Then I realized that maybe HFI-2400 is overall good for my tastes but lacks a bit of forwardness and/or brightness.
I'm quite sure that po2900 is a fix to that ( accordingly to what I read here or therer and especially oboskivitch point of view but I read good reviews in France too).

Don't count on it. Guitars and vocals are in the midrange, something that the 2900 lacks. The 2900 has an extreme V-shaped freq response and is not going to bring those things forward. Now, the 2900 is great, don't get me wrong, it just doesn't have that midrange warmth. You might just find that certain headphones are better for certain genres and that it's better to keep a couple around instead of trying to find one that's the best with everything, which might not exist.

 

[pietcux]

When I look at the compensated and averaged FR graphs @ Inner Fidelity, I can see that PRO 2900 has a pronounced bass around 60 Hz. But the rest of the spectrum seems quite even with some dips from 1 kHz on, but if you compare to a HD 650, it is more in line with 1 kHz up to lets say 15 kHz. The HD 650 drops from 1 kHz on much more and also has dips.I can just not see a V shape as the mids do not drop and the high notes do not rise above the 1 kHz level. So bass is prominent, but the rest seems quite even. And the HFI-2400 graph looks similar to the Pro-2900, maybe a little more uneven and a little peak @ 6.500 Hz. Both phone are technically quite similar anyways. Gold coated drivers versus titan coated ones. Having owned the HF-2400, I feel the biggest difference is the lack of a proper carry case, that the PRO Line always has.

 

[macrocheesium]

Quote:

When I look at the compensated and averaged FR graphs @ Inner Fidelity, I can see that PRO 2900 has a pronounced bass around 60 Hz. But the rest of the spectrum seems quite even with some dips from 1 kHz on, but if you compare to a HD 650, it is more in line with 1 kHz up to lets say 15 kHz. The HD 650 drops from 1 kHz on much more and also has dips.I can just not see a V shape as the mids do not drop and the high notes do not rise above the 1 kHz level. So bass is prominent, but the rest seems quite even. And the HFI-2400 graph looks similar to the Pro-2900, maybe a little more uneven and a little peak @ 6.500 Hz. Both phone are technically quite similar anyways. Gold coated drivers versus titan coated ones. Having owned the HF-2400, I feel the biggest difference is the lack of a proper carry case, that the PRO Line always has.

You own the PRO 2900 and you're telling us that it doesn't have pronounced highs? Don't trust these graphs, they are not consistent and are often quite different from what the human ear hears. Why don't you just tell us the audible difference instead of showing us graphs, seeing as you've owned both?
 
But let's look at it from your perspective; let's say that the 2400 and 2900 do have the same frequency response. Sorrodje clearly stated that he wants something other than the 2400 for pronounced mids, so either way the 2900 isn't looking good for him.

 

[pietcux]

The graphs reflect very good what I hear regarding the difference between Pro-2900 / Hfi-2400 and the Sennheiser HD 650. But even though I never thought so, Adele's voice cuts my ears, when played too loud on the aforementionedUltrasones, whereas it is very pleasant from the HD 650. So for some music Ultrsones are the best selection and for some music it is the likes of the HD650 with recessed highs. For me there is room for both types of fr tuning. Acoustic Jazz and Folk benefit strongly from my Ultrasones, but Adele and Electronics can be just too much.

 

[obobskivich]

Don't count on it. Guitars and vocals are in the midrange, something that the 2900 lacks. The 2900 has an extreme V-shaped freq response and is not going to bring those things forward. Now, the 2900 is great, don't get me wrong, it just doesn't have that midrange warmth. You might just find that certain headphones are better for certain genres and that it's better to keep a couple around instead of trying to find one that's the best with everything, which might not exist.

When I look at the compensated and averaged FR graphs @ Inner Fidelity, I can see that PRO 2900 has a pronounced bass around 60 Hz. But the rest of the spectrum seems quite even with some dips from 1 kHz on, but if you compare to a HD 650, it is more in line with 1 kHz up to lets say 15 kHz. The HD 650 drops from 1 kHz on much more and also has dips.I can just not see a V shape as the mids do not drop and the high notes do not rise above the 1 kHz level. So bass is prominent, but the rest seems quite even. And the HFI-2400 graph looks similar to the Pro-2900, maybe a little more uneven and a little peak @ 6.500 Hz. Both phone are technically quite similar anyways. Gold coated drivers versus titan coated ones. Having owned the HF-2400, I feel the biggest difference is the lack of a proper carry case, that the PRO Line always has.

I think in both cases we're talking over-exaggeration. The PRO2900, IME, are neither as "extremely V-shaped" as they're type-cast, nor as "flat" as the measurements indicate (remember that FR is one of many kinds of measurements). I would describe the 2900 as cold, clear, aggressive, bassy, and somewhat bright. The mids are present, but again they're a cold headphone - IME some vocals sounds absolutely heavenly through them, but others sound kind of lifeless. I agree with both of you on having multiple headphones. As far as the 2400 vs 2900 debate - I found the 2900 are tighter and faster than the 2400; the titanium drivers seem to be the contributing factor.

If you want a "better 2400" (as blunt as that is), the 2900 are that headphone. If you want something very different, especially something that has a very warm or romantic presentation, the 2900 are not that headphone.

Oh, and no need to buy the 2900 to get the case - Ultrasone sells the PROline case for ~$40 on their webshop.

 

[Sorrodje]

Sorrodje clearly stated that he wants something other than the 2400 for pronounced mids, so either way the 2900 isn't looking good for him.

More precisely , With the Koss , I discovered that my HFI is sometimes not the better tool because of its overall darkness and laid back mids . I say sometimes . I currently Listen to this :




And this is in an exemple of what kind of stuff sounds In my opinion more enjoyable with the Koss than with my Ultrasone. With the HFI-2400 , Clapton and his guitar seem to be stashed behind the bass guitar. In contrast , a Beethoven Symphonia or Burial's "Untrue" sounds awfully through the DJ100.

I only guessed the pro2900 would be an improved (bit brighter with globally less laid back sound ) hfi 2400 from this point of view but i don' t expect any can ( even pro2900 ) to be perfect. I even tend to be worried about discover a too much aggressive pro 2900 indeed. The opportunity to get a sig pro at an acceptable price (acceptable for my wallet) will maybe saved me from my dilemna

In any cases it's not a necessity... The utrasone hfi 2400 meets my needs and tastes almost perfectly.

 

[obobskivich]

Comparing the three (lucky for you - I've owned them all and like them all) - the HFI-2400 are darker and much bassier, the DJ100 are very mid-centric and n-shaped, the PRO2900 are more forward, spacious, bassy, bright, and extended. The 2900 imho are better than the DJ100, but if you don't like the more forward/aggressive sound or the coolness then you may not feel the same way. If you want to "grow up" from the DJ100 though, the 2900 are not the choice (they're the "grow up" from the 2400). The "grow up" from the DJ100 imho will come from Sony or Grado. Very much out of the scope of this thread. And remember I haven't heard the Signature Pro - for all I know they would also be that headphone.

 

[Roller]

Quote:

You own the PRO 2900 and you're telling us that it doesn't have pronounced highs? Don't trust these graphs, they are not consistent and are often quite different from what the human ear hears. Why don't you just tell us the audible difference instead of showing us graphs, seeing as you've owned both?
 
But let's look at it from your perspective; let's say that the 2400 and 2900 do have the same frequency response. Sorrodje clearly stated that he wants something other than the 2400 for pronounced mids, so either way the 2900 isn't looking good for him.

 
Well put, and often disregarded.

 

[Sorrodje]

I tried all grados from SR60 to SR325i and one more Hi-end one ( RS2i I think) ... These cans are definitely not for me ... Much too bright and aggressive . I think my "favorite" was the RS125i .

Koss DJ100 feeds completely my needs for the rare case I listen to classical rock , blues , blues rock which aren't my favourite genre. Fortunately this Koss will bring me to listen to more music in these genre .. What I really like in the DJ100 ( and my Porta Pro) is these engaging sound. these cans sound .. how can I say that in english ? ... straightforward ? simple ? friendly ?

Once said that , HFI-2400 is a can I really enjoy but I maybe would appreciate something a bit brighter , maybe more neutral athough still bassy .. I thougth to DT880 but the very quick moment I listen to the Beyers they not gave me the special effect of Ultrasone sound .. Beyer sounde a bit thin to my ear ( take this with BIG grain of salt , i'm not experienced and my english is approximate ... )

Maybe my salvation would be with Sig pro + HFI-2400 + DJ100 like the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit ?