[Roller]

Quote:

That's roughly what Koenig speculated - the off-set is meant to provide improved spatial presentation, but the side-effect is that there's apparently a not insubstantial group of the population (I think they found something like 30-40% of their test population) that will not "jive" with the setup. And they demonstrate one of the biggest problems of measurements-as-truth - just because they look "relatively flat" through a given filter or to a given measurement rig, doesn't mean they're universally perceived as such.

 
Just because x headphones look relatively flat through a given filter or to a given measurement rig, doesn't mean they're universally perceived as such is something that should be on a sticky somewhere around here

 

[macrocheesium]

Quote:

Ultrasone actually has a research-backed opinion on this - and it isn't age-based, but it is user-based. Ear shape. They found that for some users, based on ear shape, S-LOGIC contributes to a "very bright" and "very aggressive" presentation (that makes the headphones unpleasing). This isn't speculative either - they conducted an ITU standardized inquiry to demonstrate this with strong confidence.

That's very true, but research has also showed that a person's sensitivity to high frequencies drops considerably with age. I think it's a combination of both.

 

[obobskivich]

That's very true, but research has also showed that a person's sensitivity to high frequencies drops considerably with age. I think it's a combination of both.

Research has shown that age-based hearing loss mediates a lack of high-frequency acuity on average, although it is hard to deliniate presbycusis from NIHL and other factors (and remember that NIHL is (dramatically) on the rise among younger people). The loss due to age is most pronounced later in life. Further, the "problem areas" that Koenig identified in his research paper are lower in frequencies than the ranges we're generally talking about for presbycusis. Koenig was talking about areas in the 3-10k range, and generally I see ON presbycusis denoted as being a "10k and up" or "15k and up" kind of thing (and I do not know if this means there is a phase deviation from the perspective of the listener, or if this is linear behavior).

For example, here's some data with an ON sample:


Same sample compared with ISO 7029:2000:


Reprinted from Kurukata et al, 2011.

GE Data:


Koenig's paper is available from Ultrasone, although it is somewhat hard to read (I believe it was written in a language other than English, and then translated): http://www.ultrasone.com/images/stories/files/technical_reports/116aes_pager.zip

They (ostensibly) statistically demonstrated that their headphones seem to be more subjectively received than "normal" headphones (how's that for a marketing line) and speculated it had to do with the offset driver placement influencing the FR that reaches the listener's ear hole. The relationship to hearing acuity is potential, but thinking about other "bright" headphones (like Beyerdynamics or some AKG models) there doesn't seem to be the same polarizing "hate/love" relationship. I also don't seem to notice an age-related trend but I don't know if that can be claimed with any confidence (we'd need to conduct an informal survey to accurately speculate here). Grado, however, seems to be fairly "hate/love" received, and Grado headphones have a fairly unique radiation pattern as well - I know that with loudspeakers radiation and diffusion is a very big deal, and I see no reason it shouldn't be just as a big deal for headphones.

If I had to posit a guess, I'd say it's that 7khz feature that does a lot of people in.

 

[Ahzari]

very informative - thanks for the post.

 

[obobskivich]

I wanted to add (and I did go back and edit a bit), I don't mean to be "combative" towards anyone - just adding information for information's sake. Kinda wanna conduct a poll of age and feeling about "bright" headphones now, just to see if we can't at least generate *some* data on it.

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

780 + velour pads = heaven

The 780s I got today have the velour pads. 

 

[fjeena]

The 780s I got today have the velour pads. 

Those velour pads are magical!!
now all you need to do is this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/501655/simple-ultrasone-hfi-780-mod-to-increase-bass-may-also-work-on-other-models

if youre looking to squeeze that tiny bit more out of them

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

Those velour pads are magical!!
now all you need to do is this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/501655/simple-ultrasone-hfi-780-mod-to-increase-bass-may-also-work-on-other-models
if youre looking to squeeze that tiny bit more out of them

 
I'll keep it in  mind, although I'd probably end up being the one that damaged the 'phones if I tried to mod them.....lol. So far, just the E11's bass boost switch on the low setting does enough, and I don't even always use it. I haven't listened to any electronic music yet though....  so we'll see what happens.

 

[macrocheesium]

Quote:

I wanted to add (and I did go back and edit a bit), I don't mean to be "combative" towards anyone - just adding information for information's sake. Kinda wanna conduct a poll of age and feeling about "bright" headphones now, just to see if we can't at least generate *some* data on it.

Didn't see it that way at all. Thanks for the post, you explained it very well.

 

[LazBro123]

Quote:

 
Both are good for EDM, with the DJ1 being more fun, due to being based on the HFI series, and the DJ1 Pro being more balanced. Ultrasones in general excel with EDM. Also, do keep in mind the DJ1 has S-Logic Plus while the DJ1 Pro has S-Logic, with the former slightly increasing the 3D soundstage, although the difference isn't enough to recommend one over the other purely based on such difference.
 
 
What onboard audio chip/soundcard/external DAC are you using? Are you using an amp and if so, which one? What volume settings do you have?

Well Im using an Apogee One and am getting a Fiio E11. 

 

[LazBro123]

Quote:

Define "higher volumes" as well.

At slightly over 3/4 volume

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Well Im using an Apogee One and am getting a Fiio E11. 

 
What digital volume settings do you have set?

 

[MRiNiCK]

Went to B&H today, asked if i can demo the Edition 8 and Sig Pro. and after demoing each for 5-10 minutes. I would say the Edition 8 are better... my opinion though

 

[TrollDragon]

Quote:

Went to B&H today, asked if i can demo the Edition 8 and Sig Pro. and after demoing each for 5-10 minutes. I would say the Edition 8 are better... my opinion though

Did you use your own source? I heard B&H has a really poor source & amp for headphone demos.

 

[Ahzari]

Quote:

Went to B&H today, asked if i can demo the Edition 8 and Sig Pro. and after demoing each for 5-10 minutes. I would say the Edition 8 are better... my opinion though

The problem with that very short term demo is the edition 8s have a different character with much more emphasis towards treble and bass. Even I was initially more impressed with them upon first listen but with a little time the problems start to come out - the treble can be peaky and sibilant and the bass can overwhelm the midrange - unlike the signature pro which produces some of the best bass I have ever heard on a closed headphone and still keeps everything balanced and enjoyable. This is why short listening sessions are not usually representative of audio quality, U shaped headphones tend to have more wow factor but also tend to be more fatiguing over long listening sessions (something you wont notice in 5-10 minutes).
 
Just throwing in my two cents because I've been there before too.. listened to something for a short while - convinced me to buy them - then realized i couldn't stand them for more than 30 minutes.. Pro900s had that similar initial wow factor which faded quickly with longer listening sessions.