[thaslaya]

50 dollar range showdown… who will come out on top?

Is the QuietSea fit weird? I've tried an Ikko iem with oval nozzles before and it was strange

 

[theintention]

Is the QuietSea fit weird? I've tried an Ikko iem with oval nozzles before and it was strange

the oval nozzle has been more of a tip issue than a fit one, since I have to use such large sizes. The brass tips help a lot but I’m not going use them for comparisons.

So far my biggest issue with QuietSea is it’s just a smol friend… gets lost in my ears lol.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Nop. They are not.

U12t could be the pinacle of treble tuning, also is thr best BA low frequencies ever. Still surprises me how deep it can go.

V12 its a different animal, just saying the treble is contained, natural and not harsh or metallic at all.

U12T

---

The ZiiGaat Cinno has just landed with the F1 Pro from NiceHck.

First impressions of the Cinno:

• It’s so tiny
• I like the tuning. It’s thicker and less upper-midrangy than the EM6L, which helps create the illusion of the sound wrapping around.
• At the same time, everything sounds more diffused than the pin point focused sound of EM6L
• The stage seems promising. Needs to test more tracks.
• The bass seems to have better “snap” at the top of the transient than EM6L.

Again, how can they make it so small.

This one vs Magic One is something I’m looking forward to test.

The F1 impressions would come later.

Graphs might be delayed until the end of the review after all impressions were done.

Edit: the F1 Pro indeed looks like a Dunu Zen Pro without vent. It’s small and nice looking.

 

[Vonbuddy]

U12T

---

The ZiiGaat Cinno has just landed with the F1 Pro from NiceHck.

First impressions of the Cinno:

• It’s so tiny
• I like the tuning. It’s thicker and less upper-midrangy than the EM6L, which helps create the illusion of the sound wrapping around.
• At the same time, everything sounds more diffused than the pin point focused sound of EM6L
• The stage seems promising. Needs to test more tracks.
• The bass seems to have better “snap” at the top of the transient than EM6L.

Again, how can they make it so small.

This one vs Magic One is something I’m looking forward to test.

The F1 impressions would come later.

Graphs might be delayed until the end of the review after all impressions were done.

Edit: the F1 Pro indeed looks like a Dunu Zen Pro without vent. It’s small and nice looking.

Are you getting Zen Pro sound?

 

[baskingshark]

I've had the Sennheiser IE 900 for 2 years - the first pair lasted me almost that long, until the right driver died in August. Sennheiser sent me a new pair as I was still under warranty, and that driver just died last week - not even 4 months of use. Sennheiser is going to replace them again, so I have no complaints about my experience with them (other than the possibly bad QC/build over there). ANYWAYS - long story short, I was in the market for something new. The Senns are just going to make me nervous now.

Am glad to see that Senn is still honouring their warranty; was afraid that after they sold their consumer wing to Sonova, maybe the warranty and CS aspects may have been affected.

One other area that I find a bummer is the semi-proprietary MMCX on some of Senn's IEMs, so some aftermarket cables can't fit in unless you mod it. But I'm still a fan of their headphones, some of their cans like the HD650 (AKA Drop 6XX) are legendary.

 

[thaslaya]

the oval nozzle has been more of a tip issue than a fit one, since I have to use such large sizes. The brass tips help a lot but I’m not going use them for comparisons.

So far my biggest issue with QuietSea is it’s just a smol friend… gets lost in my ears lol.

Quiet Sea or EW200?

 

[theintention]

First impressions on the Aoshida E20 are very bad. Bloated bass that intrudes all over the mids, fatiguing and very smudgy, yet sharp treble. I've swapped out cables and tips... nothing to redeem this one so far idk. Comparing this to the Zero: Red and QuietSea is not in its favor, on just about every front. Very, very artificial sounding and cheap feeling. I cannot get lost in the music with these on, I am constantly on edge.

I like the cable I guess? But putting it in the 2 pin was so difficult the first time though, I was sure it was going to implode.

And the box has the wrong color IEM on the front haha.

I got this odd email last night and didn't think twice about it, but now I sure am.

 

[theintention]

Quiet Sea or EW200?

ive never used the EW200.

 

[Bosk]

I'm a fanboy of 64 Audio and U12T, but I also have to admit that the treble and details of the Monarch II is at least a half step up. Is it only EST vs 64 Audio' TIA tweeters? Idk. But it was good.

The HiBy Zeta has very smooth, almost subdued treble, but when I sit and pay attention, the information starts to come out quite satisfyingly. Is it EST? Maybe. Hard to say unless we can turn off the EST. It has the quad Sonion EST drivers.

Finally, the MEST MkIII. Just lovely treble and air and details in general. Quad-Sonion-EST inside. Is it because of the EST? Idk.

So, you know correlation vs causation and all, but I do have a soft spot for Sonion quad EST. What I don't like is the fact that these drivers would lose charge over time. Would they be unusable in 5 years? 10 years? Idk. That's why I'm eager for advances in BA and planar tech.

Edit: my hypothesis is that there is that softness to the transient edge of Sonion EST that allows manufacturers to push the treble a few dB higher. Hidizs tried the same with BA and it was not pretty in some tracks.

I've also noticed a difference, to my ears ESTs have a particular silkiness that allows them to resolve huge amounts of high frequency information effortlessly.

The difference is there when I compare Spartacus (which lack ESTs) to MEST MKIIIs which has them. I never listen to Spartacus with the feeling that high frequency information is being omitted or veiled, yet treble lacks the same polish & extension of MEST MKIII who's treble is simultaneously smoother as well.

However there's many high-end IEMs like UM's Multiverse Mentor which lacks ESTs so I wouldn't say they're a requirement for TOTL sound. Consensus among those in the know seems to be that nobody in the industry tunes ESTs better than Elysian, with their X & Annihilator IEMs in particular. Annihilator has the highest quality treble I've heard.

Finally, it's been my experience that EST drivers love power. Meaning DAPs with very beefy built-in amplifiers and external portable amps really make them shine.

 

[Vonbuddy]

I've also noticed a difference, to my ears ESTs have a particular silkiness that allows them to resolve huge amounts of high frequency information effortlessly.

The difference is there when I compare Spartacus (which lack ESTs) to MEST MKIIIs which has them. I never listen to Spartacus with the feeling that high frequency information is being omitted or veiled, yet treble lacks the same polish & extension of MEST MKIII who's treble is simultaneously smoother as well.

However there's many high-end IEMs like UM's Multiverse Mentor which lacks ESTs so I wouldn't say they're a requirement for TOTL sound. Consensus among those in the know seems to be that nobody in the industry tunes ESTs better than Elysian, with their X & Annihilator IEMs in particular. Annihilator has the highest quality treble I've heard.

Finally, it's been my experience that EST drivers love power. Meaning DAPs with very beefy built-in amplifiers and external portable amps really make them shine.

The magic question is can you get better iems than 64 Audio and other $1000 plus sellers for significantly less money?

 

[Redcarmoose]

It's upon us..................the NICEHCK Audio F1 PRO. First impressions after I finish my coffee.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Are you getting Zen Pro sound?

Joke aside, no, you don't get the sound of Zen Pro since they follow very different signature. Zen Pro is classical V-shape with rolled off upper treble and subbass. It has satisfying slammy transient response and an upper-midrangy sound that is not unlike a full Harman IEM.

These F1 Pro follows a different sound signature. The upper midrange is not as emphasised comparing to the lower midrange. For example, I'm listening to the Mendelssohn violin concerto performed by James Ehnes and Philharmonia Orchestra of the Seattle Chamber Music Society. I can hear very prominent rumble of the cellos and double bass section. The violin does not standout at the expense of the rest of the orchestra like the EM6L. The violin has good balance between upper and lower midrange. There is something that I can't quite put my finger on that is bothering me with the violin when I listen closely. I'll get my brain burned in with this IEM before commenting further.

The stage has more depth than width. I like the front-to-back projection. When listening to "John Williams: The Berlin Concert", I have the illusion of the orchestra coming from the front of the head rather than strictly inside the head. In some sense, this staging reminds me of the Supernova.

Bass is good. I don't have any complaint about the bass transient / attack / "snap." The Imperial March sounds good enough to make me want to pick up a lightsaber and march to the Jedi temple, so no complaint. It's powerful and tight. Maybe there is a hint of the snappy transient of full-size planar headphone is there.

Still, it's very early to conclude.

Both the Cinno and the F1 Pro are sample sent by Linsoul and NiceHck, btw. It means I have three review deadlines before the year end.

The magic question is can you get better iems than 64 Audio and other $1000 plus sellers for significant less money?

Define "good." If it is target adherence, most Simgot matches Harman with slight correction better than any / every kilobuck+ IEM. Even if you want the 10dB target instead, something like Magic One is all you need, if you don't want to go for the rarer Supernova.

If I speak from my personal view and standard, with bias and all, I would say: nah, nothing in the sub kilobuck matches the likes of U12T, Trio, MEST III, Kublai Khan, Monarch II, etc. entirely yet. These IEMs are well-rounded at the top of the technical performance game with some "X-factor." Meanwhile, something like Supernova, arguably, out does other options in terms of tonality, but it lacks the details and resolution to hang with the top. Same with Aurora. The AFUL P8 has the details, imaging, and separation to reach close to the top, but the stage is smallish due to the QDC-inspired tuning. So, to me, we have many "close enough" but nothing is truely "there" yet. My bet is on the AFUL Cantor, but there is no guarantee that they don't put a kilobuck price tag on it if they can achieve a "kilobuck sound."

---

Edit: so, after some more sessions alternating between Cinno and F1 Pro, I found that both present an immersive soundstage. The Cinno's stage is larger, but feels oddly diffused after listening to F1 Pro. On the other hand F1 Pro feels narrow after listening to Cinno. Both present the stage in a more immersive fashion than a Harman-tuned IEM. The imaging is fine, though not particularly impressive with either. I like the bass and dynamic of both.

This should conclude the early impressions.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Note:
The NICEHCK Audio F1 PRO is $99.99, but the Cyan (blue) cable comes extra if you choose the package deal.

It's upon us..................the NICEHCK Audio F1 PRO. First impressions after I finish my coffee.

First impressions NICEHCK Audio F1 PRO 14.2mm Planar IEM:
Included 4.4mm cable + extra 4.4mm Cyan cable:

NICEHCK Audio will included the Cyan cable as a package deal, meaning you get a discount if you buy both. Yet the regular cable is super nice, meaning there are sonic improvements to the Cyan cable but they are not necessary to enjoying the F1 PRO for what it is.

What is it?
This new edition showcases a 14.2mm Planar Diaphragm Driver in a gorgeous sold metal encasement. The regular IEM only comes in at $99.99.........and seems like a excellent deal, especially when you factor in the sound quality, build quality and included extras.

How's it sound:
Big smooth imaging and a mainly forward midrange yet way smoother than (as an example the SIMGOT EA1000) with primarily sub bass emphasis over mid bass emphasis. The full-on value here comes from timbre, where I don't seem to hear the planar timbre normally provided? That and really everything (tone wise) has been done just right. The Cyan cable provides a small extra push in the bass, along with stage width.......but mainly you are going to get a warm-up where I feel the Cyan cable is going ahead and utilizing more copper........at least that what it sounds like.

Functionality:
I stayed with the TANGZU DIVINUS VELVET ear-tips as I seemed to get great synergy? Both the HiBy R3 II DAP and Sony WM1A DAP were great with both cables and my choice of normal silicone wide-bore ear-tips................and the TANGZU DIVINUS VELVET ear-tips?


With that said, the F1 PRO seemed to totally fit better with the VELVETs? Yet, normally fit was incredibly good, as was the many variations of playback I heard. Meaning maybe due to the smooth yet clear tune, the F1 PRO seemed to work well with both DAPs and both cables, yet I have to say the TANGZU DIVINUS VELVET ear-tips were the best.

Keep in mind NICEHCK Audio is a cable manufacture too:
On the surface this may not seem like a big deal, yet both cables are extremely nice, way nicer than what is normally included with a IEM of this caliber. Well done coded red/blue rings around the plugs, superior finish and construction. Though to be truthful I've never seen a cable like the Cyan before.......having an almost furry disposition? HAHA


How do I sum up the NICEHCK Audio F1 PRO?
A great value even before burn-in. Really this sounds like way more IEM than simply $100 would get you. But more than that in was both easy going and dramatically positioned in playback, getting thrills and accessible replay any which way I wanted to go?

Warm
Musical
Fun
Forgiving
A value
Great fitting

Cheers!

Edit:
I still have to put emphasis on the tips they give you in the package too. The clear silicones, the copies of the Black Sony Ear-tips, the three sets of included grey tips, all were really good, and really special for this level of pricing.

Basically they are giving you a full set of EP-EX11 clones which are so close to the originals, I have to keep them separated!

Such ear-tips enhance bass levels, and with the over-all style they are a great feel and fit!

Edit 2:
They have also copied Sony with the Fibonacci Grill!

 

[Bosk]

The magic question is can you get better iems than 64 Audio and other $1000 plus sellers for significant less money?

I feel like a significant percentage of discovery thread posts are essentially variations on the question - can I get champagne performance on a beer budget?

I see it this way - if you're desperate for Porsche 911 performance but can only afford an MX-5, then my advice is just buy the MX-5 and be happy because they're awesome cars that will give you a very large slice of the 911 experience, and they're terrific value.

Unfortunately some people will buy an MX-5 then claim they're every bit as good as a 911 and that people who purchase 911s are idiots wasting their money. They do this largely to reinforce their purchasing decision, alleviate any residual guilt, and make themselves feel better about not buying a 911 which may be the car they really want but can't afford. It's this sort of behaviour that's contributed to a lot of the IEM hype bubbles we've seen over the years.

The difference between cars and earphones is audio is very subjective & there's so much variation in the way people hear things that it's easy for the waters to get muddied when it's so difficult to quantify sound quality to begin with. Some people attempt to counter that by clinging to measurements as a form of objective truth, but they're merely one data point that doesn't convey the full story.

So if someone claims "this new $100 IEM sounds as good as that $2000 flagship I heard the other day!" they may be telling the truth, but there's often more to it - that $2000 flagship may be a bass-light reference tuned IEM with great resolution, but the $100 earphone has harder-hitting bass with a more prominent midrange that suits the hip-hop and R&B genres the person listens to much better, so naturally they prefer it.

Most earphone manufacturers use off-the-shelf drivers from Sonion, Knowles or Bellsing, along with DDs that I assume are produced in a relatively small number of factories for a large number of brands. However tolerances & driver matching are generally going to be much stricter on higher priced IEMs, they may use drivers made to their exact specifications or even in some cases DDs or BCDs they've designed themselves, and of course IEM driver counts tend to go up with higher-priced IEMs. The shells themselves are more carefully designed on higher-end models and they'll often have more sound tubes, and crossover components that are more carefully chosen.

How much of that actually translates into audible improvements is completely subjective. You can't measure earphone performance with lap times or 0-100 numbers.

I honestly believe for the overwhelming majority of hobbyists (let alone those outside the hobby) the differences in audio performance between IEMs in the several hundred dollar range to those worth thousands is probably not worth the massive price jump. Especially once you pass USD $500 or so, diminishing returns start kicking in pretty hard and the improvements become more & more incremental. It's actually amazing the quality of sound you can get for very little money these days.

IEMs do keep on improving as you get into higher & higher stratospheres however - even my USD $1799 Noble Spartacus are trounced in a number of areas by more expensive IEMs out there! That's what you tend to notice as you climb the ladder, that IEMs don't necessarily improve across the board in every single performance department as you might expect, but rather their potential to deliver in any single area can scale up much higher. So for instance the USD $3k Elysian Annihilator has the highest quality treble and possibly the widest soundstage I've heard, but I'm not a huge fan of its' bass performance - you can probably find an IEM under USD $500 with higher quality bass output, so does that make the Annihilator overpriced? If you're someone who prioritises bass it might.

I'd love to discover an IEM under $200 that delivers performance on par with my USD $1599 UM Mest MKIII, I seriously would. I'm also pretty sure that if UM could build them for that price they'd do so because then they'd move a LOT more units and make much more money. Of course there's always the dream that some unknown brand out there stumbles on a magic formula and bingo, high-end IEMs for entry-level prices - I've no doubt it's the thrill of hunting down the white whale that motivates many people to keep on purchasing budget IEMs, the danger is after awhile when you add up what you've spent you could've bought an actual high-end IEM instead.

So ultimately the answer is no, if you want ultimate performance I'm afraid you do need to pay through the nose to get it - why else would we spend the amounts we do on high-end IEMs if we didn't have to? It isn't for bragging rights, as a music lover I mostly care about making music sound as good as it possibly can for as little as I can get away with spending, but having heard the high end stuff it then becomes more difficult to settle for entry-level or even mid-range gear you know is inferior.

However there's countless brands, virtually an entire industry with compelling financial incentives to convince you that yes you CAN have the ultimate in performance for next to nothing, that this is the next revolutionary level sound you've always dreamed of, that you would be crazy to pay more... and so the hype cycle continues!

 

[Vonbuddy]

I feel like a significant percentage of discovery thread posts are essentially variations on the question - can I get champagne performance on a beer budget?

I see it this way - if you're desperate for Porsche 911 performance but can only afford an MX-5, then my advice is just buy the MX-5 and be happy because they're awesome cars that will give you a very large slice of the 911 experience, and they're terrific value.

Unfortunately some people will buy an MX-5 then claim they're every bit as good as a 911 and that people who purchase 911s are idiots wasting their money. They do this largely to reinforce their purchasing decision, alleviate any residual guilt, and make themselves feel better about not buying a 911 which may be the car they really want but can't afford. It's this sort of behaviour that's contributed to a lot of the IEM hype bubbles we've seen over the years.

The difference between cars and earphones is audio is very subjective & there's so much variation in the way people hear things that it's easy for the waters to get muddied when it's so difficult to quantify sound quality to begin with. Some people attempt to counter that by clinging to measurements as a form of objective truth, but they're merely one data point that doesn't convey the full story.

So if someone claims "this new $100 IEM sounds as good as that $2000 flagship I heard the other day!" they may be telling the truth, but there's often more to it - that $2000 flagship may be a bass-light reference tuned IEM with great resolution, but the $100 earphone has harder-hitting bass with a more prominent midrange that suits the hip-hop and R&B genres the person listens to much better, so naturally they prefer it.

Most earphone manufacturers use off-the-shelf drivers from Sonion, Knowles or Bellsing, along with DDs that I assume are produced in a relatively small number of factories for a large number of brands. However tolerances & driver matching are generally going to be much stricter on higher priced IEMs, they may use drivers made to their exact specifications or even in some cases DDs or BCDs they've designed themselves, and of course IEM driver counts tend to go up with higher-priced IEMs. The shells themselves are more carefully designed on higher-end models and they'll often have more sound tubes, and crossover components that are more carefully chosen.

How much of that actually translates into audible improvements is completely subjective. You can't measure earphone performance with lap times or 0-100 numbers.

I honestly believe for the overwhelming majority of hobbyists (let alone those outside the hobby) the differences in audio performance between IEMs in the several hundred dollar range to those worth thousands is probably not worth the massive price jump. Especially once you pass USD $500 or so, diminishing returns start kicking in pretty hard and the improvements become more & more incremental. It's actually amazing the quality of sound you can get for very little money these days.

IEMs do keep on improving as you get into higher & higher stratospheres however - even my USD $1799 Noble Spartacus are trounced in a number of areas by more expensive IEMs out there! That's what you tend to notice as you climb the ladder, that IEMs don't necessarily improve across the board in every single performance department as you might expect, but rather their potential to deliver in any single area can scale up much higher. So for instance the USD $3k Elysian Annihilator has the highest quality treble and possibly the widest soundstage I've heard, but I'm not a huge fan of its' bass performance - you can probably find an IEM under USD $500 with higher quality bass output, so does that make the Annihilator overpriced? If you're someone who prioritises bass it might.

I'd love to discover an IEM under $200 that delivers performance on par with my USD $1599 UM Mest MKIII, I seriously would. I'm also pretty sure that if UM could build them for that price they'd do so because then they'd move a LOT more units and make much more money. Of course there's always the dream that some unknown brand out there stumbles on a magic formula and bingo, high-end IEMs for entry-level prices - I've no doubt it's the thrill of hunting down the white whale that motivates many people to keep on purchasing budget IEMs, the danger is after awhile when you add up what you've spent you could've bought an actual high-end IEM instead.

So ultimately the answer is no, if you want ultimate performance I'm afraid you do need to pay through the nose to get it - why else would we spend the amounts we do on high-end IEMs if we didn't have to? It isn't for bragging rights, as a music lover I mostly care about making music sound as good as it possibly can for as little as I can get away with spending, but having heard the high end stuff it then becomes more difficult to settle for entry-level or even mid-range gear you know is inferior.

However there's countless brands, virtually an entire industry with compelling financial incentives to convince you that yes you CAN have the ultimate in performance for next to nothing, that this is the next revolutionary level sound you've always dreamed of, that you would be crazy to pay more... and so the hype cycle continues!

I often look at something like the Kinera Nanna 2.0 as something that often drops in price by over $100 and looks refined and has good reviews across the board. That would satisfy me.