The discovery thread!
Dec 19, 2023 at 7:01 AM Post #91,021 of 131,434
I feel like a significant percentage of discovery thread posts are essentially variations on the question - can I get champagne performance on a beer budget?

I see it this way - if you're desperate for Porsche 911 performance but can only afford an MX-5, then my advice is just buy the MX-5 and be happy because they're awesome cars that will give you a very large slice of the 911 experience, and they're terrific value.

Unfortunately some people will buy an MX-5 then claim they're every bit as good as a 911 and that people who purchase 911s are idiots wasting their money. They do this largely to reinforce their purchasing decision, alleviate any residual guilt, and make themselves feel better about not buying a 911 which may be the car they really want but can't afford. It's this sort of behaviour that's contributed to a lot of the IEM hype bubbles we've seen over the years.
... :ksc75smile:

Excellent post.
You just forgot one tiny piece.
Once you can actually afford a Porsche 911, you no longer can get into one...

Cheers.
 
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Dec 19, 2023 at 7:38 AM Post #91,022 of 131,434
I feel like a significant percentage of discovery thread posts are essentially variations on the question - can I get champagne performance on a beer budget?
Answ: No, but you can (every once in a while) find a really good beer 🍺
&
I’ll take a good sippin, double fermented , Belgian beer any day (and twice on Sunday) of the week, over a flute of champagne.

Currently switch hitting between two heavy “beers”: Xenns Mangird Top and Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk
 
Dec 19, 2023 at 7:41 AM Post #91,023 of 131,434
Dunu Falcon Ultra
Hi, what do you think about Dunu Vulkan vs Falcon Ultra?

I had Falcon Ultra on my list, but then I read impressions about Vulkan and decided to get one.

I am interested in seeing how they resolve bass. With cheaper IEMs, I have IE200 or Salinotes Dioko, but I don't find them nearly as good in that term as I do find the quality of the bass in headphones such as Fostex t5050 or Monoprice monolith 1060C, which are at the same price as Dunu Vulkan.

Your impressions of F1 Pro are pretty interesting, but I wonder if you really get with F1 Pro, snappy thick and good resolved bass as with the over-ear headphones I mentioned.

I like and appreciate reading your comments.

Cheers!
 
Dec 19, 2023 at 8:05 AM Post #91,025 of 131,434
Currently switch hitting between two heavy “beers”: Xenns Mangird Top and Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk
Sure I understand the jokes but: if those IEM are just beers then I drink only water - only question is: tap or mineral :wink: .

Yep, beer is good (belgian cherry or wheat for me), but I drink much more water. Also, no champagne for me (not even for free). Mean the previous 2 sentences for IEMs, too.

Above 300 USD IEMs will sound the same for me (mean: alike FR ones) so I will not go there EVER.

My main is a Hidizs MP145, also listening to Raptgo Hook X (green)(most expensice until now), Monndrop Aria2 and Nicehck F1 Pro.
 
Dec 19, 2023 at 8:22 AM Post #91,026 of 131,434
Dec 19, 2023 at 8:40 AM Post #91,028 of 131,434
I feel like a significant percentage of discovery thread posts are essentially variations on the question - can I get champagne performance on a beer budget?

I see it this way - if you're desperate for Porsche 911 performance but can only afford an MX-5, then my advice is just buy the MX-5 and be happy because they're awesome cars that will give you a very large slice of the 911 experience, and they're terrific value.

Unfortunately some people will buy an MX-5 then claim they're every bit as good as a 911 and that people who purchase 911s are idiots wasting their money. They do this largely to reinforce their purchasing decision, alleviate any residual guilt, and make themselves feel better about not buying a 911 which may be the car they really want but can't afford. It's this sort of behaviour that's contributed to a lot of the IEM hype bubbles we've seen over the years.

The difference between cars and earphones is audio is very subjective & there's so much variation in the way people hear things that it's easy for the waters to get muddied when it's so difficult to quantify sound quality to begin with. Some people attempt to counter that by clinging to measurements as a form of objective truth, but they're merely one data point that doesn't convey the full story.

So if someone claims "this new $100 IEM sounds as good as that $2000 flagship I heard the other day!" they may be telling the truth, but there's often more to it - that $2000 flagship may be a bass-light reference tuned IEM with great resolution, but the $100 earphone has harder-hitting bass with a more prominent midrange that suits the hip-hop and R&B genres the person listens to much better, so naturally they prefer it.

Most earphone manufacturers use off-the-shelf drivers from Sonion, Knowles or Bellsing, along with DDs that I assume are produced in a relatively small number of factories for a large number of brands. However tolerances & driver matching are generally going to be much stricter on higher priced IEMs, they may use drivers made to their exact specifications or even in some cases DDs or BCDs they've designed themselves, and of course IEM driver counts tend to go up with higher-priced IEMs. The shells themselves are more carefully designed on higher-end models and they'll often have more sound tubes, and crossover components that are more carefully chosen.

How much of that actually translates into audible improvements is completely subjective. You can't measure earphone performance with lap times or 0-100 numbers.

I honestly believe for the overwhelming majority of hobbyists (let alone those outside the hobby) the differences in audio performance between IEMs in the several hundred dollar range to those worth thousands is probably not worth the massive price jump. Especially once you pass USD $500 or so, diminishing returns start kicking in pretty hard and the improvements become more & more incremental. It's actually amazing the quality of sound you can get for very little money these days.

IEMs do keep on improving as you get into higher & higher stratospheres however - even my USD $1799 Noble Spartacus are trounced in a number of areas by more expensive IEMs out there! That's what you tend to notice as you climb the ladder, that IEMs don't necessarily improve across the board in every single performance department as you might expect, but rather their potential to deliver in any single area can scale up much higher. So for instance the USD $3k Elysian Annihilator has the highest quality treble and possibly the widest soundstage I've heard, but I'm not a huge fan of its' bass performance - you can probably find an IEM under USD $500 with higher quality bass output, so does that make the Annihilator overpriced? If you're someone who prioritises bass it might.

I'd love to discover an IEM under $200 that delivers performance on par with my USD $1599 UM Mest MKIII, I seriously would. I'm also pretty sure that if UM could build them for that price they'd do so because then they'd move a LOT more units and make much more money. Of course there's always the dream that some unknown brand out there stumbles on a magic formula and bingo, high-end IEMs for entry-level prices - I've no doubt it's the thrill of hunting down the white whale that motivates many people to keep on purchasing budget IEMs, the danger is after awhile when you add up what you've spent you could've bought an actual high-end IEM instead.

So ultimately the answer is no, if you want ultimate performance I'm afraid you do need to pay through the nose to get it - why else would we spend the amounts we do on high-end IEMs if we didn't have to? It isn't for bragging rights, as a music lover I mostly care about making music sound as good as it possibly can for as little as I can get away with spending, but having heard the high end stuff it then becomes more difficult to settle for entry-level or even mid-range gear you know is inferior.

However there's countless brands, virtually an entire industry with compelling financial incentives to convince you that yes you CAN have the ultimate in performance for next to nothing, that this is the next revolutionary level sound you've always dreamed of, that you would be crazy to pay more... and so the hype cycle continues! :ksc75smile:
I agree with what you said about certain inexpensive IEM. I have had $1,500 IEMs and right now my favorite IEM is $239 Penon Orb. 1 DD; 1 BA, pure brilliance. If I want expensive I can put on my Custom Valkyries, but the Orb does 75% of the Valkyries which cost $1,600, over 6 1/2 times the price of the Orb.
 
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Dec 19, 2023 at 8:47 AM Post #91,029 of 131,434
Dunu Vulkan vs Falcon Ultra?

Different flavours, both tuning and sonic presentation. I think ultra is a safer recommendation, but vulkan is more interesting.

if you really get with F1 Pro, snappy thick and good resolved bass as with the over-ear headphones I mentioned.

No, certainly not the “air pushing against the ears” sensation like the Final D8000. Nothing sounds like that in IEM form, as least I haven’t heard anything that can do that. But it does has the snappy and resolving bass that I remember from the sundara. I also find the timbre problem with strings similarly to sundara, though the F1 Pro is warmer and easier to listen. Still okay and usable timbre, just not first choice for violin sonata or cello suite.
 
Dec 19, 2023 at 8:57 AM Post #91,030 of 131,434
Greetings discovery thread community.

I've had a lot of fun gathering survey data over at the Watercooler community over the years and in the interests of year-end fun I thought it would be interesting and cool to do a survey here to get a sense of this community's favorites and a general picture of the tastes. So if anyone is interested please take the following poll:

https://forms.gle/S1N2oQgYYgwC4iAs9

The only required question is the first one and I have it set up so you don't need to use your email-- or even be logged in-- to take it. If I get some buy in from the members here I'll put the time in to collating the data before we close out 2023.

Cheers,

Jeff.
 
Dec 19, 2023 at 9:06 AM Post #91,031 of 131,434
So who is taking one for the team and getting the Dita Project M?
 
Dec 19, 2023 at 9:07 AM Post #91,032 of 131,434
Dec 19, 2023 at 9:47 AM Post #91,033 of 131,434
I feel like a significant percentage of discovery thread posts are essentially variations on the question - can I get champagne performance on a beer budget?
Didn't read lol.

I dont think so, some people here just looking for a profile that suit their style. The price/performance ratio have been destroyed years ago. 300€ its a budget more that enough to get best hifi experience.

I love when we compare a pair of headphones, when cars, or wine, or champagne (exotic comparison btw). But I think audio is so much more easy that we pretend.

If you want to spend more money that you need to get the best sound. Just look for for cooler- water on the forum.

🐬🐬🐬🐬
 
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Dec 19, 2023 at 9:55 AM Post #91,034 of 131,434
Greetings discovery thread community.

I've had a lot of fun gathering survey data over at the Watercooler community over the years and in the interests of year-end fun I thought it would be interesting and cool to do a survey here to get a sense of this community's favorites and a general picture of the tastes. So if anyone is interested please take the following poll:

https://forms.gle/S1N2oQgYYgwC4iAs9

The only required question is the first one and I have it set up so you don't need to use your email-- or even be logged in-- to take it. If I get some buy in from the members here I'll put the time in to collating the data before we close out 2023.

Cheers,

Jeff.
Done
 
Dec 19, 2023 at 10:02 AM Post #91,035 of 131,434
I have been gifted an AliX gift card and ended up getting the ivipQ Conch V12.
Looking forward to hearing these beauties!
 

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