The discovery thread!
Jan 24, 2021 at 10:24 PM Post #54,376 of 100,521
zenbelieve.jpgIMG_9369.JPG

DUNU ZEN and KBEAR Believe

Comparing these two IEMs was very interesting practice for me as I had to overcome expectation bias in my head.
As you all may already know, if expectation bias rears it's head... namely, that if you think it will/should sound better or vice versa, it very often does.
For example, if an IEM "A" costs $700 versus $200 "B", many will naturally have a strong expectation bias towards the item A.
When you start listening the two, you already established in your head that A will outperform the B and your judgement becomes cloudy.
I think ongoing discussion about the MT300 is very interesting in a positive sense.
I had a strong expectation bias against it after measuring the frequency response and it almost sounded much worse thereafter.
All I could think was 14dbs of this -6dbs of that without much corroboration to establish credibility of what I was actually hearing.
Having said that my MT300 is on a burn-in station for next 1900 hours or so until I re-deploy lol.
Also I feel that having quite differing opinions is a good thing and often useful when done in a civilized manner.

Ok, enough of that and let's get back to my findings, starting from the Dunu Zen:
Pat Metheny's "KIN (<-->)" passed through the multi-layered percussion wall, and the saxophone and guitar squeezed half a step forward, penetrating my ears with a vibrant and dynamic sound. Even in a performance with such a large number of sounds, the timbre of each sound is clear and easily identifiable, so when listening with the Zen, all the relationship between each part is neatly organized, and the feeling of turbidity is not a concern. Since the recording emphasizes the acoustic feel, the depth is not odd. The bass has a fairly propulsive sound, but its sharpness followed by abundant texture deserves a special mention.

Now with the KBEAR Believe, it's immediately apparent layering isn't as adept as micro dynamic seems to be a bit compromised. However all the other aspect of sound, be it speed, imaging, timbre, decay all seem to be quite evenly matched. Zen is overall bit wetter and dimensional sounding, with bit more ambient pickups of the venue, but I find their technical abilities pretty close.

Rachel Podger's solo performance by Bach's violin concerto brought out an exhilarating sound by both, and I was able to enjoy the fresh tone unique to period instruments. Even in this song, the solo violin does not have thin lines down to the low notes, and each note has a rich expression. From my past experience with Dunu products, for me, they are very good at reproducing core melodies such as vocals, guitars, and violins with rich and fresh tones.
The goodness of this quality is exactly exhibited here, and its characteristics can be enjoyed beyond the boundaries of the genre.
With the KB Believe, you can clearly see that the sound pressure and timbre are neatly aligned and there are no unnatural parts in the distribution of overtones.
Overall sound is well damped and pleasant. Zen slightly edges ahead of the Believe in terms of pure emotional pull and musical enjoyment, but the gap here is even smaller than the above with a "KIN".

I can think of various IEMs that appeal to the flashiness of the moment I listen to them, but in reality, there are not so many IEMs that I never get tired of listening for a long time. This two definitely belongs to the latter. I would like to recommend it to all acoustic music fans who are looking for a sound signature that can be used for a long time.
Very nice and helpful writeup! Great pic! Thanks for the graph as always!
 
Jan 24, 2021 at 11:05 PM Post #54,377 of 100,521
Jan 24, 2021 at 11:34 PM Post #54,378 of 100,521
The question though is what bass setting was the ie8 tuned to? It has a variable bass response. Mine is always set on the lowest which is the perfect setting for me personally


DUNU ZEN and KBEAR Believe

Comparing these two IEMs was very interesting practice for me as I had to overcome expectation bias in my head.
As you all may already know, if expectation bias rears it's head... namely, that if you think it will/should sound better or vice versa, it very often does.
For example, if an IEM "A" costs $700 versus $200 "B", many will naturally have a strong expectation bias towards the item A.
When you start listening the two, you already established in your head that A will outperform the B and your judgement becomes cloudy.
I think ongoing discussion about the MT300 is very interesting in a positive sense.
I had a strong expectation bias against it after measuring the frequency response and it almost sounded much worse thereafter.
All I could think was 14dbs of this -6dbs of that without much corroboration to establish credibility of what I was actually hearing.
Having said that my MT300 is on a burn-in station for next 1900 hours or so until I re-deploy lol.
Also I feel that having quite differing opinions is a good thing and often useful when done in a civilized manner.

Ok, enough of that and let's get back to my findings, starting from the Dunu Zen:
Pat Metheny's "KIN (<-->)" passed through the multi-layered percussion wall, and the saxophone and guitar squeezed half a step forward, penetrating my ears with a vibrant and dynamic sound. Even in a performance with such a large number of sounds, the timbre of each sound is clear and easily identifiable, so when listening with the Zen, all the relationship between each part is neatly organized, and the feeling of turbidity is not a concern. Since the recording emphasizes the acoustic feel, the depth is not odd. The bass has a fairly propulsive sound, but its sharpness followed by abundant texture deserves a special mention.

Now with the KBEAR Believe, it's immediately apparent layering isn't as adept as micro dynamic seems to be a bit compromised. However all the other aspect of sound, be it speed, imaging, timbre, decay all seem to be quite evenly matched. Zen is overall bit wetter and dimensional sounding, with bit more ambient pickups of the venue, but I find their technical abilities pretty close.

Rachel Podger's solo performance by Bach's violin concerto brought out an exhilarating sound by both, and I was able to enjoy the fresh tone unique to period instruments. Even in this song, the solo violin does not have thin lines down to the low notes, and each note has a rich expression. From my past experience with Dunu products, for me, they are very good at reproducing core melodies such as vocals, guitars, and violins with rich and fresh tones.
The goodness of this quality continues here, and its characteristics can be enjoyed beyond the boundaries of the genre.
With the KB Believe, you can clearly see that the sound pressure and timbre are neatly aligned and there are no unnatural parts in the distribution of overtones.
Overall sound is well damped and pleasant. Zen slightly edges ahead of the Believe in terms of pure emotional pull and musical enjoyment, but the gap here is even smaller than the above with a "KIN".

I can think of various IEMs that appeal to the flashiness of the moment I listen to them, but in reality, there are not so many IEMs that I never get tired of listening for a long time. This two definitely belongs to the latter. I would like to recommend it to all acoustic music fans who are looking for a sound signature that can be used for a long time.

Omg thank you. Someone finally compared the Zen to the Believe. Everyone compares it to Illumination, but Im much more interested in how it compares to something like the Believe.

And I totally getcha on the thought that there are certain IEMs that you just enjoy having in your ears at any time. For me, its not the best ones I have, its the Starfields. I just enjoy them overall even though my Blessign 2 and Believe are technically "better".

Now someone that is good at using equalizer apo needs to make an eq profile for the believe that fits the zen curve :wink:. I might give it a shot, but im pretty bad at it.
 
Last edited:
Jan 24, 2021 at 11:35 PM Post #54,379 of 100,521
zenbelieve.jpgIMG_9369.JPG

DUNU ZEN and KBEAR Believe

Comparing these two IEMs was very interesting practice for me as I had to overcome expectation bias in my head.
As you all may already know, if expectation bias rears it's head... namely, that if you think it will/should sound better or vice versa, it very often does.
For example, if an IEM "A" costs $700 versus $200 "B", many will naturally have a strong expectation bias towards the item A.
When you start listening the two, you already established in your head that A will outperform the B and your judgement becomes cloudy.
I think ongoing discussion about the MT300 is very interesting in a positive sense.
I had a strong expectation bias against it after measuring the frequency response and it almost sounded much worse thereafter.
All I could think was 14dbs of this -6dbs of that without much corroboration to establish credibility of what I was actually hearing.
Having said that my MT300 is on a burn-in station for next 1900 hours or so until I re-deploy lol.
Also I feel that having quite differing opinions is a good thing and often useful when done in a civilized manner.

Ok, enough of that and let's get back to my findings, starting from the Dunu Zen:
Pat Metheny's "KIN (<-->)" passed through the multi-layered percussion wall, and the saxophone and guitar squeezed half a step forward, penetrating my ears with a vibrant and dynamic sound. Even in a performance with such a large number of sounds, the timbre of each sound is clear and easily identifiable, so when listening with the Zen, all the relationship between each part is neatly organized, and the feeling of turbidity is not a concern. Since the recording emphasizes the acoustic feel, the depth is not odd. The bass has a fairly propulsive sound, but its sharpness followed by abundant texture deserves a special mention.

Now with the KBEAR Believe, it's immediately apparent layering isn't as adept as micro dynamic seems to be a bit compromised. However all the other aspect of sound, be it speed, imaging, timbre, decay all seem to be quite evenly matched. Zen is overall bit wetter and dimensional sounding, with bit more ambient pickups of the venue, but I find their technical abilities pretty close.

Rachel Podger's solo performance by Bach's violin concerto brought out an exhilarating sound by both, and I was able to enjoy the fresh tone unique to period instruments. Even in this song, the solo violin does not have thin lines down to the low notes, and each note has a rich expression. From my past experience with Dunu products, for me, they are very good at reproducing core melodies such as vocals, guitars, and violins with rich and fresh tones.
The goodness of this quality continues here, and its characteristics can be enjoyed beyond the boundaries of the genre.
With the KB Believe, you can clearly see that the sound pressure and timbre are neatly aligned and there are no unnatural parts in the distribution of overtones.
Overall sound is well damped and pleasant. Zen slightly edges ahead of the Believe in terms of pure emotional pull and musical enjoyment, but the gap here is even smaller than the above with a "KIN".

I can think of various IEMs that appeal to the flashiness of the moment I listen to them, but in reality, there are not so many IEMs that I never get tired of listening for a long time. This two definitely belongs to the latter. I would like to recommend it to all acoustic music fans who are looking for a sound signature that can be used for a long time.
Thanks man, very much appreciated. Seems like a similar conclusion when I compared them to the higher end acoustunes, the acoustunes manage a wetter, denser, more emotional sound while still retaining the technicalities and the believe lags behind in scale and emotional weight a slight bit but has comparable technicalities. The more I listen to the believe the more I feel it's absolutely killer for the price.
 
Jan 25, 2021 at 12:35 AM Post #54,381 of 100,521
I'm so jealous right now... after heavy deliberation she has decided to skip the mid tier and jump straight to a flagship with the Penon Volt. What a great retirement gift to herself lol

She's in for a treat if you go by the great reviews it's received from very highly respected reviewers.
 
Jan 25, 2021 at 2:14 AM Post #54,383 of 100,521
Last question for a while. Best cable for the Volt?? She's looking at either the Ares II for $150 on Effect Audio or the Penon OS849 at $119

The more expensive the better.
 
Jan 25, 2021 at 2:32 AM Post #54,384 of 100,521
The more expensive the better.
😂😂 I feel like your being sarcastic but cant tell. As we have 7 quality iem shes deciding between a mix of 5 penon cables like OS849, the pure silver, the gold plated silver, among a few others or going straight prime with the totem. Ares II and a few others are on the table as well. Just waiting to see what the price of the totem paired with the Volt is before we decide.. so excited
 
Jan 25, 2021 at 2:33 AM Post #54,385 of 100,521
Last question for a while. Best cable for the Volt?? She's looking at either the Ares II for $150 on Effect Audio or the Penon OS849 at $119

use the stock cable, it’s good to start
 
Jan 25, 2021 at 3:32 AM Post #54,386 of 100,521
Jan 25, 2021 at 3:57 AM Post #54,388 of 100,521
I sure hope so. Pulling the trigger. Volt and dt3 terminator incoming. iBasso it00 plus Shanling ae3 and Seeaudio Yume here Wednesday and the Fan comes any day. Its CHRISTMAS
Do let us know which your mum prefer? Volt or 3DT?😊
 
Jan 25, 2021 at 3:59 AM Post #54,389 of 100,521
Don't forget cable is last choice to tune-in IEM with your source (dap or dac+amp)
I preferred Penon OSG with M6 pro, but on M8 stock cable is better.
I spend more to have more isn't a good rule for cables everytime
 

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