[SciOC]

No sweat bro,

I have O.C.D

Never mentioned DM6. I am about to drop my cash on the CL2 even though the rep for them was about as clever as a cup of dirt. Kind of guy you WANNA meet in a dark alley. The ceramic set they released 2 years back is the worst I ever heard in that price range. But ...I am interested.

BTW the Andro hype is a phenom of market hype. I loved the Comet and owner loved me.. was sent the ATLAS and did not love it. Guess who gets no love from the owner now If I hyped ATLAS I would be holding a Solaris with 2 vids online already.

People who pay do reviews. people like me who get free gear ( I often pay because my attitude limits my options) **waves at Campfire audio**....Free gear getters are promoters.
Mostly full of crap. Kitechaser paid so i consider.

I hope to get the dm6 soon and then I can directly compare.... But the CL2 is a clear step up from my ibasso it04 so I'm not expecting them to win. I'm definitely interested in them to see how they perform for their price. Have never done an audio review in my life, don't intend to do one...

Burn in on the CL2 is crazy, be warned...200 hours minimum.

As for OCD, I have it too in the literal sense, audio is my one healthy outlet.... I've definitely wondered before what percentage of head fiers have OCD....

For now, aside from the dm6, I have little interest in other IEMs, my goal due to the CL2 is upgrading my source and my source material.

 

[Otto Motor]

No sweat bro,

I have O.C.D

Never mentioned DM6. I am about to drop my cash on the CL2 even though the rep for them was about as clever as a cup of dirt. Kind of guy you WANNA meet in a dark alley. The ceramic set they released 2 years back is the worst I ever heard in that price range. But ...I am interested.

BTW the Andro hype is a phenom of market hype. I loved the Comet and owner loved me.. was sent the ATLAS and did not love it. Guess who gets no love from the owner now If I hyped ATLAS I would be holding a Solaris with 2 vids online already.

People who pay do reviews. people like me who get free gear ( I often pay because my attitude limits my options) **waves at Campfire audio**....Free gear getters are promoters.
Mostly full of crap. Kitechaser paid so i consider.

I would not generalize but looking at the Atlas review page [as an example], there is a concerted and painful effort by essentially all reviewers to beat around the bush that the "review sample" (worth $1300) was provided, did not have to be returned (sometimes omitted), "honest review"....and there was no "financial incentive" to write the review. The best one I read was when a guy received a $3000 earphone for reviewing/keeping for "comparison purposes" (which I find legit) and claimed there was absolutely no financial incentive...other than perhaps the $3000 value, dare I say...and the prospect of receiving more of the same from that company in the future?

If I was in this position, I'd simply leave all that crap off and call a spade a spade because that gives the reviewer the most credibility. Reviews are controlled by us, the informed readers: if somebody is dishonest they won't last long here regardless of their claims.

But I am not in this position and take the piss out of such linguistic contortions in my own disclaimers, for example in my recent review of this $10 marvel:

"...Disclaimer

The EZAUDIO D4 were forced upon me by Jim NiceHCK in exchange of my free labour. Honestly, I had no desire to review them and once again failed to negotiate a financial incentive. And I was even charged 10 cents for them. But in the end I am glad I did the review as I really like them..."

Same words but arranged differently. Let's say it like that: all reviewers are honest [reviewer lingo: "professional"] but the ones who bought the item with their hard-earned money may be more honest. And, by the way, I'll never never fork out $1300 for an earphone even if I won the lottery jackpot or became a dentist. At this price, the Atlas (and any other earphone) better be perfect.

 

[B9Scrambler]

@Otto Motor I think you're forgetting the fact that those Atlas samples still belong to Campfire Audio. If they want it back, it goes back. At least mine does. Hence no "financial incentive". Reviews of purchased samples seem like no more than justification for money spent half the time. RHA CL2 comes to mind. Reviews of samples might as well be the same thing if done right. All that time that human being dedicates to the review instead of other things in their time limited lifespan is gone, never to be returned.

Edit: Disclaimers are also required according to the review guidelines so you can't just omit that.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I would not generalize but looking at the Atlas review page [as an example], there is a concerted and painful effort by essentially all reviewers to beat around the bush that the "review sample" (worth $1300) was provided, did not have to be returned (sometimes omitted), "honest review"....and there was no "financial incentive" to write the review. The best one I read was when a guy received a $3000 earphone for reviewing/keeping for "comparison purposes" (which I find legit) and claimed there was absolutely no financial incentive...other than perhaps the $3000, dare I say...and the prospect of receiving more of the same from that company in the future?

If I was in this position, I'd simply leave all that crap off and call a spade a spade because that gives the reviewer the most credibility. Reviews are controlled by us, the informed readers: if somebody is dishonest they won't last long here regardless of their claims.

But I am not in this position and take the piss out of such linguistic contortions in my own disclaimers, for example in my recent review of this $10 marvel:

"...Disclaimer

The EZAUDIO D4 were forced upon me by Jim NiceHCK in exchange of my free labour. Honestly, I had no desire to review them and once again failed to negotiate a financial incentive. And I was even charged 10 cents for them. But in the end I am glad I did the review as I really like them..."

Same words but arranged differently. Let's say it like that: all reviewers are honest but the ones who bought the item with their hard-earned money may be more honest. And, by the way, I'll never never fork out $1300 for an earphone even if I won the lottery jackpot or became a dentist. At this price, the Atlas (and any other earphone) better be perfect.

Even honest reviews really don’t mean that much. Sure you can get ideas, but the only way to really judge a headphone is to own it for two months. Everyone has different equipment and different tastes in sound signature. Also different genres demand at times different headphones. Going to meet-ups helps if you can get away with listening to a system for a half hour.

And with the above being true, the entire industry has been polluted with lies. Both TAS and Stereophile has nice manufacture advertising directly after some “honest” review. So five pages of review, then advertisement, more reviews.... advertising. It’s how the publications stay in business. Plus even with all the research it’s a little hard to choose. The great part is the moments when you learn your desired sound and get equipment that thrills you. That’s one reason I like cheap equipment, it’s never ever exactly perfect, but does a lot for the money spent. Heck most flagships aren’t perfect either, so you pay more for closer to perfection, but if you don’t know what your looking for your still miles away.

 

[Otto Motor]

@Otto Motor I think you're forgetting the fact that those Atlas samples still belong to Campfire Audio. If they want it back, it goes back. At least mine does. Hence no "financial incentive". Reviews of purchased samples seem like no more than justification for money spent half the time. RHA CL2 comes to mind. Reviews of samples might as well be the same thing if done right. All that time that human being dedicates to the review instead of other things in their time limited lifespan is gone, never to be returned.

Edit: Disclaimers are also required according to the review guidelines so you can't just omit that.

First, B9, I hope you don't take it personally - as it is not meant personally. It is a general observation of many many reviews by many many reviewers [also outside of Head-Fi where there are no guidelines]. I think it is understood that there are no incentives and that reviews are honest. If that was not the case, such reviewers would lose their credibility rather quickly - or get banned (including the seller/manufacturer) . Some guys just write plain and simple that the sample was provided. Isn't that just fine?

As to my own experience with samples provided - and I said this before: nobody has ever asked me anything other than "would you like to review it"? Oh...and then there was this unsuccessful attempt to change my stars rating for an mp3 player.

Are you working nightshift? I am ready to call it the day in my timezone.

 

[SciOC]

100% for sure you must consider the source. Some reviewers like free stuff and will say things just to continue the gravy train.

On the other hand, you have people who paid a lot of money who are trying to convince themselves they've made the right decision.

Everyone has an axe to grind. There is no such thing as a completely unbiased opinion.

When people just state facts it's dreadfully boring. Just be upfront about your biases. If you got it free, say so, if you hate EQ, say so. If you spent your last nickel on a product, please mention it....

 

[chinmie]

I'll never never fork out $1300 for an earphone even if I won the lottery jackpot or became a dentist.

ooo...trust me you will ....or at least you would definitely consider it

Even honest reviews really don’t mean that much. Sure you can get ideas, but the only way to really judge a headphone is to own it for two months. Everyone has different equipment and different tastes in sound signature. Also different genres demand at times different headphones. Going to meet-ups helps if you can get away with listening to a system for a half hour

the thing is, we (well that's a generalization...let's just say me) have the tendency to collect things even if we don't really need it. with enough time, i would usually find things to love enough on a piece of equipment that makes me ended up keeping them, as i have a knack to find positive points on things or make a slight workarounds for negative points..so that's not really good for my wallet.

i take a different approach when testing things on a meet-ups: if it doesn't impress me in the first 10 seconds, it's not good enough. if then it doesn't keep me from listening to it for at least a minute, or making me come back to a second listen at that time, then it's not worth to purchase. but this method is strictly to prevent me from overbuying.

i understand for reviewing purposes, then they have to listen in a controlled environment, with other gears for comparative purposes, and definitely enough time to test and draw conclusion.

 

[Redcarmoose]

100% for sure you must consider the source. Some reviewers like free stuff and will say things just to continue the gravy train.

On the other hand, you have people who paid a lot of money who are trying to convince themselves they've made the right decision.

Everyone has an axe to grind. There is no such thing as a completely unbiased opinion.

When people just state facts it's dreadfully boring. Just be upfront about your biases. If you got it free, say so, if you hate EQ, say so. If you spent your last nickel on a product, please mention it....

Haha,
Trying to convince themselves and the world as a whole.....they made the right decision! Soooo true!

 

[Redcarmoose]

ooo...trust me you will ....or at least you would definitely consider it



the thing is, we (well that's a generalization...let's just say me) have the tendency to collect things even if we don't really need it. with enough time, i would usually find things to love enough on a piece of equipment that makes me ended up keeping them, as i have a knack to find positive points on things or make a slight workarounds for negative points..so that's not really good for my wallet.

i take a different approach when testing things on a meet-ups: if it doesn't impress me in the first 10 seconds, it's not good enough. if then it doesn't keep me from listening to it for at least a minute, or making me come back to a second listen at that time, then it's not worth to purchase. but this method is strictly to prevent me from overbuying.

i understand for reviewing purposes, then they have to listen in a controlled environment, with other gears for comparative purposes, and definitely enough time to test and draw conclusion.

Even after close scrutiny stuff that’s far from perfect can whittle it’s way in. But..........how do you ever really know what you like without taking chances. It’s the chances you take that end up being success wins that make this hobby exciting. It’s not just knowing what you like, it is knowing what your maybe going to like. Knowing what your going to like after finding the right combination.............as the most part of this hobby is the riddle aspect. The riddle is if it all sounds like what you want, after it’s all said and done.

 

[chinmie]

Even after close scrutiny stuff that’s far from perfect can whittle it’s way in. But..........how do you ever really know what you like without taking chances. It’s the chances you take that end up being success wins that make this hobby exciting for me. It’s not just knowing what you like, it knowing what your maybe going to like. Knowing what your going to like after finding the right combination.............as the most part of this hobby is the riddle aspect. The riddle is if it all sounds like what you want, after it’s all said and done.

oo, i do take my chances sometimes, either trusting a review from trusted friends/reviews, and also finding great priced used gears or buying new at discounted prices so i can try extensively at home, and minimize loss by reselling if i happen not to like it. good example is the etymotic er4xr. i bought it straight based on reviews. the first couple of days i can't even use it because the triflange simply can't fit at all in my ears. but i kept it for a couple of days and mod myself some eartips. now it has become my benchmark earphone (and bought another ety as spare).

yesterday i also purchased a DM6, out of curiosity

the 10 seconds rule is for meet ups... you know how dangerous the temptations are when seeing piles of gears like that, hahaha....

 

[Redcarmoose]

oo, i do take my chances sometimes, either trusting a review from trusted friends/reviews, and also finding great priced used gears or buying new at discounted prices so i can try extensively at home, and minimize loss by reselling if i happen not to like it. good example is the etymotic er4xr. i bought it straight based on reviews. the first couple of days i can't even use it because the triflange simply can't fit at all in my ears. but i kept it for a couple of days and mod myself some eartips. now it has become my benchmark earphone (and bought another ety as spare).

yesterday i also purchased a DM6, out of curiosity

the 10 seconds rule is for meet ups... you know how dangerous the temptations are when seeing piles of gears like that, hahaha....

Truly there is nothing wrong with the 60 second listen in my eyes. I think after a while you kind of know your sound signature. You may not exactly know why a headphone or IEM doesn’t work, but you sense it. Then in time you will read about someone describing what you didn’t like. They don’t like the headphone either, but happened to get a firm grip on why. Now strangely many will hear the same headphone, love it and buy it.

If your traveling it’s difficult to put a ton of energy into trying to figure out 20 IEMs. First off your mind and ears get tired, secondly your mind can play tricks on you if your listening to a 2K IEM and are not in any way a position to buy one. I remember listening to a 100K headphone rig, and remember liking it, and hearing qualities which were real. But there ends up being a perspective stance because you know you will never own it.

Still, we have all been somehow fooled into buying stuff that wasn’t maybe what we truly wanted. Hindsight is always 20/20. But I’m starting to realize it’s not the flashy wildly entertaining sound at the start that lasts with me. Some headphones are great on short listen as they mesmerize the listener. For me it’s the headphones which almost sound boring on first listen, which end up being favorites later. They don’t need to be technical monsters and parlay a whole party with treble and acuity everywhere. They can just barely get the upper frequencies out in a conservative manner, but still go way down low, and have good presentation across the board. Add a nice fit and seal and I can live with them. I have $500 IEMs that do just that. But we would not be here unless we were curious. What if..............what if there was better out there? It’s getting a technicality great performance which does have the “wow” factor that makes us think we are somehow missing out on something. A rock unturned.

 

[chinmie]

Truly there is nothing wrong with the 60 second listen in my eyes. I think after a while you kind of know your sound signature. You may not exactly know why a headphone or IEM doesn’t work, but you sense it. Then in time you will read about someone describing what you didn’t like. They don’t like the headphone either, but happened to get a firm grip on why. Now strangely many will hear the same headphone, love it and buy it.

If your traveling it’s difficult to put a ton of energy into trying to figure out 20 IEMs. First off your mind and ears get tired, secondly your mind can play tricks on you if your listening to a 2K IEM and are not in any way a position to buy one. I remember listening to a 100K headphone rig, and remember liking it, and hearing qualities which were real. But there ends up being a perspective stance because you know you will never own it.

yup, the key for me is making sure what sound signature i am searching for, and always bring my "benchmarks" headphones when testing.

Still, we have all been somehow fooled into buying stuff that wasn’t may e what we truly wanted. Hindsight is always 20/20. But I’m starting to realize it’s not the flashy wilding entertaining sound at the start that lasts with me. Some headphones are great on short listen as they mesmerize the listener. For me it’s the headphones which almost sound boring on first listen, which end up being favorites later. They don’t need to be technical monsters and parlay a whole party with treble and acuity everywhere. They can just barely get the upper frequencies out in a conservative manner, but still go way down low, and have good presentation across the board. Add a nice fit and seal and I can live with them. I have $500 IEMs that do just that. But we would’nt be here unless we were curious. What if..............what if there was better out there. It’s getting a technicality great performance which does have the “wow” factor that makes us think we are somehow missing out on something. A rock unturned.

my experience is the opposite: usually the first time listening, if i don't find something that grabs my attention about them (be it the bass, or the mids, soundstage, attack, etc), i might grow to like them the more i listen (a few days or weeks), but in the long run, my feelings/opinions would revert to my initial judgment that i made that first 1 minute listen. this is the system that happens to work for me

 

[Bartig]

what happened to your headphone? surely it wasn't accidentally misplaced in your pocket and went inside the washing machine

Spilled water over it. Not a very clever thing to do over open backs...

 

[Redcarmoose]

Spilled water over it. Not a very clever thing to do over open backs...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-S...on-Moisture-Reusable-Silica-gel-/171682800410

Another way that works is putting your headphones in an airtight Pelican case with one of these silica shoe dyers. The window turns blue then you plug them in to a wall socket overnight till the silica turns pink then put em back in the Pelican case.

 

[josesol07]

I have the DM6 and the CL2, and I can't think of a single track where the DM6 outperforms the CL2.
Maybe except some of the more poorly mastered tracks where the DM6 smooths them over because it does not have the same resolution as the CL2.
Don't get me wrong, the DM6 are very nice, but the CL2 is a next gen, King Kong ain't got $h!t on me iem.

Now you got interested in CL2
wow, how much is that thing that wipes out DM6?