The Deals Thread (CLOSED! See the last post for the link to the new thread)

[kingoftown1]

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Not only this sucks but it is price fixing which is supposedly illegal. What more the remaining brick and mortar stores hardly allow any demo on headphones.

Yeah, that's not exactly what price fixing is

 
 

 

[jjmai]

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Not only this sucks but it is price fixing which is supposedly illegal. What more the remaining brick and mortar stores hardly allow any demo on headphones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing
"In 2007, the United States Supreme Court ruled that vertical price fixing by a manufacturer and its retailers, also known as retail price maintenance, is not a per se violation."  Sucks for us

 
This reminds me a few years ago, Burton (famous snowboard brand) basically forced a big retailer to close shop because they sold below the discount pricing limit.

 

[Radio_head]

It may not be that great for the consumer, but at least it's okay for the mom-and-pop shops.  If Amazon or other chains can buy in bulk and sell at a price that all the smaller places can never hope to touch they'll go out of business that much quicker.  Having MAP pricing levels the playing field for resellers.  (Not to mention artificially keeping dealer %'s high and perception of higher-end products as being elite.)  

 

[KG Jag]

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Yeah, that's not exactly what price fixing is

 
 

It is price fixing.  It just may be a legal version of it.
 

 

[KG Jag]

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It may not be that great for the consumer, but at least it's okay for the mom-and-pop shops.  If Amazon or other chains can buy in bulk and sell at a price that all the smaller places can never hope to touch they'll go out of business that much quicker.  Having MAP pricing levels the playing field for resellers.  (Not to mention artificially keeping dealer %'s high and perception of higher-end products as being elite.)  

Yes--it tends to protect inefficient and high cost sellers.  This may have made some sense when market penetration depended on the local mom and pop shop.  It makes much less sense in the last 20 years or so.
 
Further, the success of MAP pricing depends in large part on a number of factors, including the price levels set and the strictness of the "rules" when the market changes or is misread by the price setter.  For example Franklin Mint/Armour did this with a line of their collectibles.  The MAP price was far above market and product sat on the shelf.  This led to intermittent authorized fire sales and ultimate failure of the brand in this product line.  High MAP pricing tends to be a very bad strategy in bad economic times--especially when dealing with recreational and hobby items.  More especially it is usually ill advised when when competitors are more than willing to use their own pricing to grab market share--often at little or not loss to their own margins.
 
 
 

 

[Radio_head]

At the same time, MAP pricing helps keep up appearances that a luxury item is in fact that - a luxury.  Items that are routinely heavily discounted lose some of the mystique of being luxurious in the eyes of the potential buyer.  With a large company like Sennheiser, most of their headphone sales are on their low to mid-range lineup.  This keeps them solvent while having a luxury/high-end lineup keeps their cachet as being top of the heap in engineering and class.  Having MAP pricing on the mid-to-high end lineup helps cultivate that perception.
 
This may or may not be a valid point in the discussion, but Rolls-Royce sold more cars than ever before amidst the recent economic downturn.  The people who have money for what they perceive to be luxuries will pay for them.  Whether or not the luxury headphone market can target that market is a point up for debate - but the LCD-3's recently being featured in the Robb Report would seem to indicate that there is some interest in that market segment for top-flight headphones.

 

[mefxes]

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It is price fixing.  It just may be a legal version of it.
 

No, it's not price fixing. Price fixing is when different companies fix their prices on their similar products, dont letting the market rule.
 
If you have a company you can fix the retail price and deny cheaper prices of your products. Market will still rule because other companies will be able to put their similar products out at cheaper prices, maybe obligating you to sell your products cheaper...

 

[Magick Man]

MAP falls apart with a phone call, I just ignore all the posted prices and have a heart-to-heart with the sales person. They need to make money and they will work with you.

 

[Radio_head]

Sometimes.  I have managed to get discounts on officially "non-discountable" items through a phone call - and when I do I make sure not to post it on public forums.
 
 
One additional point - the 598's were initially widely available with steep discounts.  One possible reason for this is that companies let the early adopters/rave reviewers pick them up on the cheap.  When they become entrenched on the forums and among social circles as a great product and a good buy, they enforce the MAP price - note they don't jack up the price, you just don't see them being discounted.  I'm not saying Sennheiser would officially encourage this - but they might not discourage the discounts for a few months at the beginning for this reason.
 
This is obviously just a theory in Sennheiser's case and to be taken with a pillar of salt.

 

[GigaFi]

My headphone actually went UP in value? Sweet!

 

[Magick Man]

Through all these years in Hi-Fi, >20 years in the hobby, I've yet to spend anywhere close to MSRP or MAP for any substantial piece of gear. All dealer prices have dropped like a Best Man's pants at a bachelor party. They'll work with you, because making some money is better than making none at all.

Besides, MAP is just what they can advertise, almost always they're free to privately work out whatever deals they can.

 

[poikkeus]

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Through all these years in Hi-Fi, >20 years in the hobby, I've yet to spend anywhere close to MSRP or MAP for any substantial piece of gear. All dealer prices have dropped like a Best Man's pants at a bachelor party. They'll work with you, because making some money is better than making none at all.
Besides, MAP is just what they can advertise, almost always they're free to privately work out whatever deals they can.

So true. Many consumers are accustomed to buying online, not realizing that you can haggle with a competitive seller.

 

[Bactericidal]

I made two calls to J&R and went to Electronics Expo for the HD598; no one will discount. These are pretty easy going retailers, too. J&R told me a discount is now forbidden on the HD598, and that's not because of a new J&R policy.

 

[Magick Man]

No offense, but I'd have to hear that rejection for myself.

 

[tdockweiler]

$250 for the HD-598 now...that's just crazy..
If mine dies, no way I'd pay that.
 
Especially considering the K601 and Q701 are dirt cheap and sound better. Too bad they needs powerful amps.
 
Add Sennheiser to my list of companies I dislike along with Shure.
 
What's next? Sennheiser trying to make it illegal to buy a used pair? Maybe they could install a chip inside the HD-1000 with your registration info.