Orthodynamic Roundup

[khbaur330162]

And I better steal your YHD's anyway =P

Mine are too sweaty from all the dancin' right now. Give them some time.

 

[BucketInABucket]

  Mine are too sweaty from all the dancin' right now. Give them some time.

My YHD1 drivers are hidden away in here!
 

 

[khbaur330162]

I can dig it. Aw hell yeah, that'd work. Here's mine:
 

 
Stock pads were torn apart and lambskin now replaces the portions that touch your face. Straight driver swap, pretty much, I just threw epoxy putty around the YHD-3 drivers to stick them onto the baffles. Jammed some filter paper, arctic cotton and open-cell foam (thanks Nick) on the driver and it does a fair job. Sorbothane on the way to my house, could probably use more damping, tbh, these could be more detailed and have more bass, imo, but they are pretty fun as is. 

 

[BucketInABucket]

  I can dig it. Aw hell yeah, that'd work. Here's mine:
 

 
Stock pads were torn apart and lambskin now replaces the portions that touch your face. Straight driver swap, pretty much, I just threw epoxy putty around the YHD-3 drivers to stick them onto the baffles. Jammed some filter paper, arctic cotton and open-cell foam (thanks Nick) on the driver and it does a fair job. Sorbothane on the way to my house, could probably use more damping, tbh, these could be more detailed and have more bass, imo, but they are pretty fun as is. 

That's cool; what shell is that you're using?
 
Mine is pretty much a driver swap too except a hell of a lot lazier and quicker. Pads are some fleabay ESW9 replacement pads that are actually really nice with a texture similar to HM5 pads but there's no space for sorb and I didn't put in much of anything else, just a piece of AC covering the back so the baffle isn't even sealed. 
 
I find that YHD drivers tend to be pretty forgiving of what you do to them though. They'd have to be though, the 1 and 2s especially, because of the horrible acoustic characteristics that stock shell has!

 

[khbaur330162]

  That's cool; what shell is that you're using?
 
Mine is pretty much a driver swap too except a hell of a lot lazier and quicker. Pads are some fleabay ESW9 replacement pads that are actually really nice with a texture similar to HM5 pads but there's no space for sorb and I didn't put in much of anything else, just a piece of AC covering the back so the baffle isn't even sealed. 
 
I find that YHD drivers tend to be pretty forgiving of what you do to them though. They'd have to be though, the 1 and 2s especially, because of the horrible acoustic characteristics that stock shell has!

That's a Sony MDR-CD280. Same thing as the CD380, pretty much, which I used to make my first frankenphone (ATH-2 drivers in those). Man I ran that first franken through hell. Sooo much baffle mass loading, didn't know what kind of epoxy putty to use (the Blue/White "plastic" putty from Home Depot, the stuff in the tube, is my favorite, it's soft so you can remove the drivers pretty easily if needed and the stuff seems to stick to itself well in a single piece, you can peel it off the baffle and drivers if you're lucky, whereas the "Steel" and "Wood" mixtures tend to either chip or turn into like a powder), removed the drivers a few times and swapped them out for SFI's at some point, ended up running them without a headband eventually, I attached an elastic band (stolen from a pair of Ski goggles, the ones with the Orange visor and maybe even optical coating with rainbow banding) to the baffle rears that went all the way around my head (it held the baffles tight onto my face which made bass nice and tight), and stitched my first pair of leather ear pads for them using (very) thick leather from a used couch (those ear pads sat in a drawer until they gave up the ghost and I let my dogs chew on 'em, I guess facial oils taste good?). The CD280 is a good platform, imo. Angled drivers, nice small ear chamber, easy to take apart, etc. I've contemplated building a sealed driver housing around the drivers by literally putting a big glob of epoxy putty over my felt damping and then poking a hole in the cured putty as a bass port. Idk, if your pair of YHD franken's are any lazier than mine they must have built themselves. Anyway, the only downsides to the CD280 imo are the cloth ear pads which hurts bass without some labor intensive modification i.e. stitching new pads (although if you turn the earpads inside-out and put them on opposite channels it's not a bad deal, imo), and the creaky, spring loaded, auto-adjusting headband. I put up with these short comings just fine, but it might bother some out there. They're typically pretty cheap, too.
 
The YHD's are definitely more forgiving than any other 38mm I've heard, I'll agree with that. If you ask me they do have a similar coloration, though. The T10 driver isn't thaaat much bigger and it errs on the side of slightly too dark as opposed to the "twang" I'd use to describe the YHD and SFI variants.
 
Tbph, though, the YHD-280 isn't worth what I spent on parts, leather and labor if you ask me. I could be about as happy with something else I pulled off the shelf. The Sony ZX701IP sounds mighty fine (lacks speed if I was to nit pick) and I've landed myself a pair of those for like $20 shipped, no joke. -Edit- I lied to you. How long did you believe me for? YHD-280 lives on forever, it just needs new damping. I swear to effing god there's something here. Yo, five bucks a month for damping newsletter subscription. I cook up new damping schemes, cut it into little pieces for you, put in envelope, lick it personally, mail to you, $5 a month. Fack! This place a sausage fest. Where them good girls at? Any Todd Rundgren fans in the house? *Bangs head on keyboard* Spank! I've rehearsed this my whole life.

 

[balaste]

Hi !
 
Did somebody compare the Fostex TH500RP to the new TH-X00 which is not orthodynamic if I recall ?

 

[khbaur330162]

 

[BucketInABucket]

  That's a Sony MDR-CD280. Same thing as the CD380, pretty much, which I used to make my first frankenphone (ATH-2 drivers in those). Man I ran that first franken through hell. Sooo much baffle mass loading, didn't know what kind of epoxy putty to use (the Blue/White "plastic" putty from Home Depot, the stuff in the tube, is my favorite, it's soft so you can remove the drivers pretty easily if needed and the stuff seems to stick to itself well in a single piece, you can peel it off the baffle and drivers if you're lucky, whereas the "Steel" and "Wood" mixtures tend to either chip or turn into like a powder), removed the drivers a few times and swapped them out for SFI's at some point, ended up running them without a headband eventually, I attached an elastic band (stolen from a pair of Ski goggles, the ones with the Orange visor and maybe even optical coating with rainbow banding) to the baffle rears that went all the way around my head (it held the baffles tight onto my face which made bass nice and tight), and stitched my first pair of leather ear pads for them using (very) thick leather from a used couch (those ear pads sat in a drawer until they gave up the ghost and I let my dogs chew on 'em, I guess facial oils taste good?). The CD280 is a good platform, imo. Angled drivers, nice small ear chamber, easy to take apart, etc. I've contemplated building a sealed driver housing around the drivers by literally putting a big glob of epoxy putty over my felt damping and then poking a hole in the cured putty as a bass port. Idk, if your pair of YHD franken's are any lazier than mine they must have built themselves. Anyway, the only downsides to the CD280 imo are the cloth ear pads which hurts bass without some labor intensive modification i.e. stitching new pads (although if you turn the earpads inside-out and put them on opposite channels it's not a bad deal, imo), and the creaky, spring loaded, auto-adjusting headband. I put up with these short comings just fine, but it might bother some out there. They're typically pretty cheap, too.
 
The YHD's are definitely more forgiving than any other 38mm I've heard, I'll agree with that. If you ask me they do have a similar coloration, though. The T10 driver isn't thaaat much bigger and it errs on the side of slightly too dark as opposed to the "twang" I'd use to describe the YHD and SFI variants.
 
Tbph, though, the YHD-280 isn't worth what I spent on parts, leather and labor if you ask me. I could be about as happy with something else I pulled off the shelf. The Sony ZX701IP sounds mighty fine (lacks speed if I was to nit pick) and I've landed myself a pair of those for like $20 shipped, no joke. -Edit- I lied to you. How long did you believe me for? YHD-280 lives on forever, it just needs new damping. I swear to effing god there's something here. Yo, five bucks a month for damping newsletter subscription. I cook up new damping schemes, cut it into little pieces for you, put in envelope, lick it personally, mail to you, $5 a month. Fack! This place a sausage fest. Where them good girls at? Any Todd Rundgren fans in the house? *Bangs head on keyboard* Spank! I've rehearsed this my whole life.

I think we all pushed our first few cans perhaps a bit too far at some point; I remember being frustrated at the stripped screws of my TDS-5 and staring in horror as I accidentally tore the diaphragm a few weeks later when I first started on this mad journey! I used to be searching desperately for a cheap platform for my own transplants; if only I'd known about that sony back then! Sometimes the best transplants are the laziest and less stressful though 

it does sound like a really nice enclosure, though, that's for sure. Though I can mke my own cups, I don't have the skill to sew my own earpads though so HM5s aplenty until I learn how to I suppose. No convenient supply of spring steel either so it's fleabay headbands until I can figure out a way of getting a decent supply. Might just try that sony thing as a result and see what I can eke out of it as I've got a spare pair of Pro 30 drivers rattling about somewhere.
 
Most ortho drivers seem to sing when stuck in a more sympathetic enclosure, but driver surface area seems to really affect the sound even if it's just a bit. There's a big difference between the T10 and SFI-series drivers especially in the dynamic range from my experience
 
All I use nowadays is sorb, AC and sometimes AH, a bit of electrical tape or paper on the backside of the driver to increase treble and/or newplast if the situation calls for it honestly; everything else gives results that aren't worth the time required to perfect the sound imo. Wood enclosures don't need nearly as much extra damping work as plastic or metal either as they sound so darn good naturally when done right. The Bucket literally just has sorb squares on the back of the baffle and 0.2g of AH in each side, no felt or anything like that, and it already sounds very much satisfactory.
 
I've personally gotten stuck in the vintage receiver/speaker world now too oops. That's a whole new can of worms and as a result I haven't been spending nearly as much time on ortho damping schemes as I used to in the past. I should just marry my electronics, who neeeds girls anyways?!
 

  Hi !
 
Did somebody compare the Fostex TH500RP to the new TH-X00 which is not orthodynamic if I recall ?

 
What, a dynamic driver? Traitor! Witch! On to the stake he goes! //end hypocritical sarcasm
 
Never heard either of them unfortunately so nothing from me!

 

[leeperry]

  CD280 is a good platform, imo. (..) The YHD's are definitely more forgiving than any other 38mm I've heard, I'll agree with that. If you ask me they do have a similar coloration, though.

 
Quite frankly, those 38mm drivers will fit any AT knock-off cheapo woody so why bother with crappy plastic cups?
 
The 38mm diameter is a dead give-away that yamie simply commissioned SFI to assemble drivers using stronger magnets IMO.
 

   
All I use nowadays is sorb, AC and sometimes AH, a bit of electrical tape or paper on the backside of the driver to increase treble and/or newplast if the situation calls for it honestly; everything else gives results that aren't worth the time required to perfect the sound imo. Wood enclosures don't need nearly as much extra damping work as plastic or metal either as they sound so darn good naturally when done right. The Bucket literally just has sorb squares on the back of the baffle and 0.2g of AH in each side, no felt or anything like that, and it already sounds very much satisfactory.
 
I've personally gotten stuck in the vintage receiver/speaker world now too oops. That's a whole new can of worms and as a result I haven't been spending nearly as much time on ortho damping schemes as I used to in the past. I should just marry my electronics, who neeeds girls anyways?!
 
What, a dynamic driver? Traitor! Witch! On to the stake he goes!

OMG, I happen to have a Monitor10 on my ears as I'm typing this

 
newplast works wonders to fit 38mm drivers into foster phones IME, easy as pie to apply, fully reversible and zero vibration whatsoever but I'll be sure to try sorb ASAP.
 
I recently sold some gear IRL to a guy who loves his NS1000 speakers, sheer unobtainium though.

 

[Drakkard]

The 38mm diameter is a dead give-away that yamie simply commissioned SFI to assemble drivers using stronger magnets IMO.

I disagree here. Diaphragm on YHD and on SFI is totally different, magnets are different, openings in magnets also different.. Only thing they have in common is their diameter actually. Maybe they were made on same factory, but design is totally different.
 

I recently sold some gear IRL to a guy who loves his NS1000 speakers, sheer unobtainium though.

NS-1000 is one of the most easy-to-get high-end vintage speakers.. Well, at least around here I owned NS-500m, a bit cheaper brother.. Oh that Be hights were pure bliss.

 

[GREQ]

.

 

[khbaur330162]

Idk if diaphragm rigidity is important? I realize that, as others have already stated, many manufacturers have thrown quite a bit of time at this including SFI, Technics, Oppo, Fostex, and so on. But if you look at the ECR-800, the percentage of open area on the stator is variable. Basically, I'm guessing Sony implemented a scalene pentagonal diaphragm in such a way as to bounce standing waves on the diaphragm around "destructively" so they'd cancel each other out, but not only that, they drove the diaphragm harder and softer in certain areas in an attempt to achieve a diaphragm motion that was closer to "ideal," or "pistonic." I'm thinking of a planar diaphragm along the lines of AKG's variable thickness endeavors, or maybe an elastomer diaphragm (Essar Stretch?) that's driven harder along the peripherals than at the center in order to get a nice pistonic motion from our diaphragm. I tried to implement these ideas into the design of the ECR-Ortho with spiral conductor. Not sure how well I did with that, but the proof would be in the pudding, I'd assume.

 

[MDR30]

  It's also worth mentioning that SFI probably didn't make the Yamaha drivers due to other differences, such as the honeycomb embossed pattern over the entire driver surface to increase rigidity.
I'm not sure many people have ever noticed this?
I don't think any Yamahas feature this kind of diaphragm.
 
It almost made me laugh when they thought it was 'revolutionary' of the Ether diaphragm to have it's diaphragm strengthened in a similar way. 
Yet, the EAH-820/830 also have embossed patterns to improve driver rigidity. 
 
  
 
 
On a side note, I'm getting quite close to reducing the 500Hz-1000Hz bump in these drivers inside the Eagle. 
I've already got a noticeably flatter response than I've ever achieved with an SFI, and I think flatter than nick's Pro30 as mentioned on the previous page.
I'll keep you posted as it's a work in progress.

 
Astute observation. Looking forward to see your damping scheme of the flat diaphragm resonance.

 

[Drakkard]

  It's also worth mentioning that SFI probably didn't make the Yamaha drivers due to other differences, such as the honeycomb embossed pattern over the entire driver surface to increase rigidity.
I'm not sure many people have ever noticed this?
I don't think any Yamahas feature this kind of diaphragm.

Yup, I just called it "Diaphragm" for simplicity Yamaha have circular pattern, and this is one of two reasons they have more bass I believe. Honeycomb pattern provide good rigidity, but also greatly limits diaphragm movement. Circular pattern on the other hand, gives round diaphragm more room to move. While it will ruin perfect piston motion for part of the diaphragm, in this size some sacrifices must be made either way.
And massive magnet will not allow true piston motion anyway - and it is second reason for low bass - it just locks in to much air, greatly limiting it's flow, and so putting a pressure on moving diaphragm. Yamaha drivers have many smaller openings, and it is better as they are evenly distributed across the surface, so less time for air to reach nearest opening from any point under the magnet - less pressure put on the diaphragm - more even and linear movement.

 

[Drakkard]

  Idk if diaphragm rigidity is important? I realize that, as others have already stated, many manufacturers have thrown quite a bit of time at this including SFI, Technics, Oppo, Fostex, and so on. But if you look at the ECR-800, the percentage of open area on the stator is variable. Basically, I'm guessing Sony implemented a scalene pentagonal diaphragm in such a way as to bounce standing waves on the diaphragm around "destructively" so they'd cancel each other out, but not only that, they drove the diaphragm harder and softer in certain areas in an attempt to achieve a diaphragm motion that was closer to "ideal," or "pistonic." I'm thinking of a planar diaphragm along the lines of AKG's variable thickness endeavors, or maybe an elastomer diaphragm (Essar Stretch?) that's driven harder along the peripherals than at the center in order to get a nice pistonic motion from our diaphragm. I tried to implement these ideas into the design of the ECR-Ortho with spiral conductor. Not sure how well I did with that, but the proof would be in the pudding, I'd assume.

It is less important for electrostats, as they do not have traces on a diaphragm, and force applies at it all uniformly. For planars, driving force affects only traces, and any diaphragm between the traces must be rigid enough to not bend during movement.
That's why I'm quite sceptical about "thinner is better" trend.