Apr 1, 2016 at 5:50 PM Post #24,496 of 27,306
It is less important for electrostats, as they do not have traces on a diaphragm, and force applies at it all uniformly. For planars, driving force affects only traces, and any diaphragm between the traces must be rigid enough to not bend during movement.
That's why I'm quite sceptical about "thinner is better" trend.

This reminds me about something I read about the new Sennheiser Orpheus - where Sennheiser COULD have made the diaphragm thinner, but instead they chose to go for the 'optimum' thickness.
This got me thinking that at some point, the diaphragm is too thin to move air at the 'optimum' owing to it's mass and weight. This is a very real issue that of course changes depending on things like altitude and temperature etc where the properties of air behaviour and mass can change.
 
Apr 1, 2016 at 9:15 PM Post #24,497 of 27,306
  Though I can mke my own cups, I don't have the skill to sew my own earpads though so HM5s aplenty until I learn how to I suppose. No convenient supply of spring steel either so it's fleabay headbands until I can figure out a way of getting a decent supply. Might just try that sony thing as a result and see what I can eke out of it as I've got a spare pair of Pro 30 drivers rattling about somewhere.
 
Most ortho drivers seem to sing when stuck in a more sympathetic enclosure, but driver surface area seems to really affect the sound even if it's just a bit. There's a big difference between the T10 and SFI-series drivers especially in the dynamic range from my experience
 
All I use nowadays is sorb, AC and sometimes AH, a bit of electrical tape or paper on the backside of the driver to increase treble and/or newplast if the situation calls for it honestly; everything else gives results that aren't worth the time required to perfect the sound imo. Wood enclosures don't need nearly as much extra damping work as plastic or metal either as they sound so darn good naturally when done right. The Bucket literally just has sorb squares on the back of the baffle and 0.2g of AH in each side, no felt or anything like that, and it already sounds very much satisfactory.
 
I've personally gotten stuck in the vintage receiver/speaker world now too oops. That's a whole new can of worms and as a result I haven't been spending nearly as much time on ortho damping schemes as I used to in the past. I should just marry my electronics, who neeeds girls anyways?!
 
What, a dynamic driver? Traitor! Witch! On to the stake he goes! //end hypocritical sarcasm
 

If you do go searching for a CD280 or CD380 I'll again recommend turning the pads inside out and swapping the left for the right and vice versa. This seals in the bass a little more, ime. While the cotton portions do allow bass to escape inside the pad, it's actually not horrible for the sound stage iirc; it's been a long time since my first franken phone, that was in like 2007. The baffles are pretty thick, tbh, and the kind of plastic they used doesn't sound too resonant to my ears either. I'll throw some sorb on them when I get the chance, but if this stuff is as magical as you're all saying my guess is I'll discover for myself what you all hear in a different enclosure. Just my gut feeling right now.
 
I'd definitely say driver surface area plays a key role in overall tonal quality, but there's too many variables going on for me to say just how exactly. The 55mm pinched ortho sounds very, very good to my ears, but, ceteris paribus, the difference between an aniso HP-1 and B&O U70 is night and day, imo, the U70 being to my favor. And I'd agree, there's a big difference between an SFI and a T10, from tonal quality to detail retrieval, to resonance frequency peak, and so on. They're just completely different animals, imo, especially when compared in their respective stock enclosures.
 
It's surprising how little needs to be done to get certain drivers to (arguably) sound flippin' fantastic, I'd agree.
 
My dad's got an old Sony receiver tucked away in the garage somewhere. I knew he was into Akai reel to reels, Audio Technica turntables, Koss Pro4AA's and the such when he was in college, but he failed to mention the -or I never listened close enough to him to hear he had a- "TOL" Sony receiver... He said he'd probably never sell it, he just doesn't know who could get any use out of it... I told him to go get it and that my F1000's could appreciate it! Still don't know where exactly that thing is or what kind of restoration might need to go into it, but if he's willing to part with it I'll find a corner for her, you can be sure. That or give the F1000's to my dad. He's not really a headphone guy anymore, and they'd for sure need a recable before gifting them to anyone, so who knows. If the ECR-Ortho ever gets finished I might just give him a pair of those? The F1000's are still rather novel, imo, so Idk. Maybe give him both or let him decide. If push comes to shove find a nice pair of Maggies for my dad, I'm sure he could get into that kind of thing. Not sure if his Sony has enough oomph for a pair of Maggies, tbh, though. I think he read me the specs and it gave out like 50wpc or something. Probably enough for him to enjoy his music a great deal, or maybe even get him bit by the audio bug all over again. Wonder what Mom will say about Maggies in the family room...
 
Ikr? Dynamics? I mean, honestly, who wastes their time with that crap? Oh yea, the F1000 is dynamic. Why'd AKG stop building those? Tooling was too expensive? Criminy... Seriously, the K1000's have detail rivaling anything I've heard to date, they're that good. I honestly think they'd sound phenomenally good with a sealed ear chamber, and proper ear-to-driver placement would probably be easier to achieve?
   
Quite frankly, those 38mm drivers will fit any AT knock-off cheapo woody so why bother with crappy plastic cups?
 
newplast works wonders to fit 38mm drivers into foster phones IME, easy as pie to apply, fully reversible and zero vibration whatsoever but I'll be sure to try sorb ASAP.

Wood sounds good, don't get me wrong, but what about the Lawton mods? That was basically laminating Dynamat over the entire insides of Mahogany driver enclosures, no? Granted, the wood cups on the D5000 are pretty thin and whatever wood they used is not very dense, imo. Doesn't surprise me Dynamat helped a great deal in that situation. I still think plastic can sound darn freaking good, though. Imagine crazy "lattice-type" driver housings printed with a 3D printer, too. Remember wualta saying something about infinitely variable damping enclosures? Building an enclosure that had variable acoustic mechanical damping built into the structure (think of a stringy kind of sponge where the lattice work restricts air flow more and more as you get deeper into the enclosure). This is easily possible with 3D printers and some pixie dust. 
 
I don't doubt it, I've still got maybe 10 sticks of that stuff from when you sent me a care package in a trade for some T50RP's (remember I got you two pairs from B&H Photo for like $42 bucks a pop?). Might even have some Egyptian papyrus paper hanging around in an envelope, too, if I can find it. I used some of the newplast in my EAH-820. Good stuff, it's just a nightmare to take out and it gets all over my fingers and whatnot.
 
It is less important for electrostats, as they do not have traces on a diaphragm, and force applies at it all uniformly. For planars, driving force affects only traces, and any diaphragm between the traces must be rigid enough to not bend during movement.
That's why I'm quite sceptical about "thinner is better" trend.

I disagree with the uniformly applied driving forces in 'stats. Because the diaphragm domes up at the center your driving forces will be strongest there, no? How much of an effect this has on the diaphragm's behavior I couldn't tell you, especially given it will be strong on BOTH the forward and reverse motions of the diaphragm. Will the forces counteract eachother exactly, or will this actually be the cause for standing waves on our diaphragm? No idea... As for ortho's I think with proper circuit trace design, variable magnet strength (distance between the changing poles), diaphragm shape, and perhaps self-damping elastomer diaphragm materials and/or self-damping diaphragm coatings (genius idea Nick shared with me in a PM) we should be able to control the diaphragm's behavior well enough that we won't really care about what's exactly taking place on the nanosecond or microscopic level... at least from a sonic standpoint? Then again, I like what Fostex did on the T50RP with the Copper crosshatching in-between their live circuit traces. Multi-layer diaphragms like that are getting into the real nitty gritty though, especially coming from my perspective where I'm using an old HP laser printer to print my etch resist onto Pyralux sample sheets mailed to me by Dupont. I simply don't have the necessary tools or resources to worry about all that right now.
  This reminds me about something I read about the new Sennheiser Orpheus - where Sennheiser COULD have made the diaphragm thinner, but instead they chose to go for the 'optimum' thickness.
This got me thinking that at some point, the diaphragm is too thin to move air at the 'optimum' owing to it's mass and weight. This is a very real issue that of course changes depending on things like altitude and temperature etc where the properties of air behaviour and mass can change.

Interesting. What if there were actually multiple, parallel circuits on a single diaphragm being driven by the same (or different) audio signal. You could drive the center with high frequencies, the outer circumference with lower frequencies, etc. or merely put a resistor inline with one of the circuits so as to limit current draw? You could vary different driving parameters of the diaphragm via an energizer box of sorts and tune the driver per your atmosphere. This should give you an idea of what I mean:
https://d13yacurqjgara.cloudfront.net/users/11380/screenshots/2350953/c.png
 
Apr 2, 2016 at 5:26 AM Post #24,498 of 27,306
Originally Posted by khbaur330162 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I disagree with the uniformly applied driving forces in 'stats. Because the diaphragm domes up at the center your driving forces will be strongest there, no? How much of an effect this has on the diaphragm's behavior I couldn't tell you, especially given it will be strong on BOTH the forward and reverse motions of the diaphragm. Will the forces counteract eachother exactly, or will this actually be the cause for standing waves on our diaphragm? No idea... As for ortho's I think with proper circuit trace design, variable magnet strength (distance between the changing poles), diaphragm shape, and perhaps self-damping elastomer diaphragm materials and/or self-damping diaphragm coatings (genius idea Nick shared with me in a PM) we should be able to control the diaphragm's behavior well enough that we won't really care about what's exactly taking place on the nanosecond or microscopic level... at least from a sonic standpoint? Then again, I like what Fostex did on the T50RP with the Copper crosshatching in-between their live circuit traces. Multi-layer diaphragms like that are getting into the real nitty gritty though, especially coming from my perspective where I'm using an old HP laser printer to print my etch resist onto Pyralux sample sheets mailed to me by Dupont. I simply don't have the necessary tools or resources to worry about all that right now.

Why diaphragm domes up? Stats are usually large enough to have minimum excursion, they are not designed to travel that far that they become dome-shaped. I actually think of it as flat surface that acts in pistonic fashion, with variable surround area. With large excursion, flat area will be smaller, and surround - larger. Dome will form only on absolute maximum SPL, and I think diaphragm will sooner touch the stators and burn, than archieve it.
About Fostex, do you mean that X - pattern between the waves of tracers? http://cdn.head-fi.org/5/54/54987a87_IMAG0690.jpeg
  Interesting. What if there were actually multiple, parallel circuits on a single diaphragm being driven by the same (or different) audio signal. You could drive the center with high frequencies, the outer circumference with lower frequencies, etc. or merely put a resistor inline with one of the circuits so as to limit current draw? You could vary different driving parameters of the diaphragm via an energizer box of sorts and tune the driver per your atmosphere. This should give you an idea of what I mean:
https://d13yacurqjgara.cloudfront.net/users/11380/screenshots/2350953/c.png

It is interesting idea, but extremely hard to implement, and also benefits are not very clear. That complicates diaphragm design a whole lot more. Only one benefit I can think of is extending HF range, but there is no problems with it to start with. Most Iso's do not have problems with 20-20khz range already, without such tricks. And problems with it seems to be much greater - no more "regular phase", weird interference at places where two different "zones" meets, lower bass response compared to the same-sized usual Iso, distortion and phase added by crossover circuit...
 
Apr 2, 2016 at 6:47 AM Post #24,499 of 27,306
  Why diaphragm domes up? Stats are usually large enough to have minimum excursion, they are not designed to travel that far that they become dome-shaped. I actually think of it as flat surface that acts in pistonic fashion, with variable surround area. With large excursion, flat area will be smaller, and surround - larger. Dome will form only on absolute maximum SPL, and I think diaphragm will sooner touch the stators and burn, than archieve it.
Interesting. Why can't we do that with orthos, too? I guess what I mean is why would Oppo drive their diaphragms from the center and mess around with diaphragm stability cross hatching and what not if they could more or less merely drive the peripherals and attain near perfect piston motion?
 
  About Fostex, do you mean that X - pattern between the waves of tracers? http://cdn.head-fi.org/5/54/54987a87_IMAG0690.jpeg
Yeah, that's what I'm referring to. Isn't that to strengthen the diaphragm between the live traces as you mentioned? I've never looked too closely at the T50RP diaphragm in person, but my guess was that that cross hatching was imbedded inside a multi-layer Kapton diaphragm. Is it merely on the reverse side? Not sure, tbh. I wonder what the T50RP would sound like if it was multi-layer with a dual-sided circuit if it isn't already, tbh. Dual sided circuitry seems interesting as magnetic flux from mirrored traces will constructively interact with each other, right?  
  It is interesting idea, but extremely hard to implement, and also benefits are not very clear. That complicates diaphragm design a whole lot more. Only one benefit I can think of is extending HF range, but there is no problems with it to start with. Most Iso's do not have problems with 20-20khz range already, without such tricks. And problems with it seems to be much greater - no more "regular phase", weird interference at places where two different "zones" meets, lower bass response compared to the same-sized usual Iso, distortion and phase added by crossover circuit...
Good deal. Was just thinking out loud there, you're probably right, not worth the effort. That being said, I do wonder what a headphone that can reliably reach 30khz or even 50khz would sound like. Most disregard wavebands that high, right? Others say there's placebo to be attained in those same wavebands. While even others say there's definitely stuff up there. I'm imagining an ECR-Ortho with plasma ultra-tweeter lurking in the background ala K340. Dude, go plasma or go home. Can that be my motto? I got a fever. And the only prescription. Is more plasma. Gotta have more plasma, baby.
 
While I'm on the subject, Drakkard, if I may ask, what's your honest opinion of Crop Circle Audio, its ambitions, and its current circumstance?
 
And on a completely different note, where the heck is Nick? Who wants to tickle him to death? I'm imagining him rolling around on the floor laughing somewhere kicking his socks and gasping for air. Guys, he gave me his address, let's go TP his house. Nyuk nyuk nyuk. *taps on computer screen* Yo, dude, I know you're in there. Fight me irl, I dare you. Come at me bro. How tall are you? I climb up you like a squirrel, I give no faks! Attack on Titan style, I break your face in with chair sweaty man hair thrash metal zipptty bah bah bop chronically cooooooool.
triportsad.gif
Quote: _Edit- Sorb sounds good.



 
Apr 2, 2016 at 8:36 AM Post #24,500 of 27,306
Interesting. Why can't we do that with orthos, too? I guess what I mean is why would Oppo drive their diaphragms from the center and mess around with diaphragm stability cross hatching and what not if they could more or less merely drive the peripherals and attain near perfect piston motion?

As far as I get Oppo's idea (in fact it is first implemented on Amfiton N-25s in early 90s) - they want all radiating surface to act in perfect piston motion at any volume levels, so they just made a huge surround area, and hided it under the housing so it will not radiate. Then they removed traces there to reduce mass of the diaphragm. Cross hatching was done to improve stability and repeatability for mass production, as tensioning the diaphragm is a very tricky part.
Personally, I do not like this approach. While, theoretically, it looks legit, I do not think hiding surround part is that necessary or particularly helpful. I even think it is harmful, because of the reasons I described earlier about SFI magnet openings. And just look at Senns HD800, their driver is basically one big surround, and still it performs very well.
 
Quote:
Yeah, that's what I'm referring to. Isn't that to strengthen the diaphragm between the live traces as you mentioned? I've never looked too closely at the T50RP diaphragm in person, but my guess was that that cross hatching was imbedded inside a multi-layer Kapton diaphragm. Is it merely on the reverse side? Not sure, tbh. I wonder what the T50RP would sound like if it was multi-layer with a dual-sided circuit if it isn't already, tbh. Dual sided circuitry seems interesting as magnetic flux from mirrored traces will constructively interact with each other, right?

Yea, it is. I did not have a chance to inspect T50rp closely also, but I do not think it on the other side or between layers - it is one more operation that will add cost, and T50rp design is all suited for cheaper mass-production. My assumption is that it is just another material that do not cause short-circuit.
Dual sided circuit is done to not center-pin spiral patterned driver, allowing larger and smoother diaphragm movement as far as I see. I never saw dual sided planar with straight traces pattern. Dual sided pattern noticeably increase mass of the diaphragm, meaning less detailed and controlled sound. I do not think slightly increased sensitivity will outweigh that.
So far I find YHD and even SFI (not talking about bass) to have very good details, but they are small comparing to one-sided diaphragms. So I think weight is the main issue here.
Quote:
Good deal. Was just thinking out loud there, you're probably right, not worth the effort. That being said, I do wonder what a headphone that can reliably reach 30khz or even 50khz would sound like. Most disregard wavebands that high, right? Others say there's placebo to be attained in those same wavebands. While even others say there's definitely stuff up there. I'm imagining an ECR-Ortho with plasma ultra-tweeter lurking in the background ala K340. Dude, go plasma or go home. Can that be my motto? I got a fever. And the only prescription. Is more plasma. Gotta have more plasma, baby.

I believe that there are several headphones on the market that play 50kHz and even further, but it is hard to find a measurement system that will be able to go that high, so it is not easy to prove :) I do not know if actually being able to reproduce that frequencies is important, but I prefer no roll-off to at least 20kHz :) After that.. Dunno. But there is second side of the coin, while our ear may not need it, it is important for digital audio processing, as such "extra" information can help restore initial analog signal more closely. Nyquist–Shannon theorem and such.
And plasma, im with ya :D It seems to be perfect speaker by most means, but having high-voltage device right next to my ear.. Listen to heavenly sounds and die. thats the way to audio-nirvana for a true audiophile :D
Quote:
While I'm on the subject, Drakkard, if I may ask, what's your honest opinion of Crop Circle Audio, its ambitions, and its current circumstance?

Uhh, no idea, what is it?
 
Apr 2, 2016 at 11:06 AM Post #24,501 of 27,306
 
Yea, it is. I did not have a chance to inspect T50rp closely also, but I do not think it on the other side or between layers - it is one more operation that will add cost, and T50rp design is all suited for cheaper mass-production. My assumption is that it is just another material that do not cause short-circuit.
Hrm. I urge you to reconsider. I think it's deeper than that and, tbh, I'm not sure what you mean or why you bring up short circuits.
 
  Dual sided pattern noticeably increase mass of the diaphragm, meaning less detailed and controlled sound. I do not think slightly increased sensitivity will outweigh that.
Interesting. Thanks for this.
I believe that there are several headphones on the market that play 50kHz and even further, but it is hard to find a measurement system that will be able to go that high, so it is not easy to prove :) I do not know if actually being able to reproduce that frequencies is important, but I prefer no roll-off to at least 20kHz :) After that.. Dunno.
Yeah, I'm pretty much in the same boat.
 
  But there is second side of the coin, while our ear may not need it, it is important for digital audio processing, as such "extra" information can help restore initial analog signal more closely. Nyquist–Shannon theorem and such.
No idea what the Nyquist–Shannon theorem is. I'll look into it.
I'll Originally Posted by Drakkard /img/forum/go_quote.gif And plasma, im with ya :D It seems to be perfect speaker by most means, but having high-voltage device right next to my ear.. Listen to heavenly sounds and die. thats the way to audio-nirvana for a true audiophile :D
Haha.
tongue_smile.gif
 
Uhh, no idea, what is it?








http://cropcircleaudio.forumotion.com/t3-will-you-support-this-legacy-of-love

 
Apr 2, 2016 at 1:12 PM Post #24,503 of 27,306
  Anyone ever tried to transplant Wharfedale ID1 drivers? What would be the right cans to fit those drivers into? i have a junk ID1 and i am thinking of transplanting the drivers.
 
Thanks

Or you can sell the drivers to me 
biggrin.gif

 
Apr 2, 2016 at 2:53 PM Post #24,505 of 27,306
  Or you can sell the drivers to me 
biggrin.gif


Dont sell to him, sell to me!
biggrin.gif


I got an impression you are doing it without fully understanding what this pentagon form is actually for ^__^ No offence. It seems kind of naive that you will get something similar to ECR-500 just by copying its form, its not even same driver principle.
Other than that, and to the driver itself - I see a lot of problems - huge gaps between magnets - very uneven driving force, huge driver area at the center is just wasting (btw it is not clear if the driver is center pinned or not), relatively small openings, large part of the diaphragm is covered with bulky and heavy aluminum layer - I mean the areas under the magnets, etc..
I strongly suggest you try serpentine pattern first, it is much easier to do with good result - easier to align magnets in perfect rows without gaps, no need to fill such large areas with alum, also you can design it to use only similar-sized magnets. Overall it will be easier to control diaphragm behavior, easier to assemble, more uniformly driven..
But spiral pattern looks much cooler, that is true :)
 
Apr 2, 2016 at 3:03 PM Post #24,506 of 27,306
 
Whats the dimensions on those?

 
55L x 50W (57 counting the small square bit sticking out the side of the driver) x 9D. All dimensions are in mm. I also believe someone else did a transplant but I don't remember who.
 
 
  If you do go searching for a CD280 or CD380 I'll again recommend turning the pads inside out and swapping the left for the right and vice versa. This seals in the bass a little more, ime. While the cotton portions do allow bass to escape inside the pad, it's actually not horrible for the sound stage iirc; it's been a long time since my first franken phone, that was in like 2007. The baffles are pretty thick, tbh, and the kind of plastic they used doesn't sound too resonant to my ears either. I'll throw some sorb on them when I get the chance, but if this stuff is as magical as you're all saying my guess is I'll discover for myself what you all hear in a different enclosure. Just my gut feeling right now.
 
I'd definitely say driver surface area plays a key role in overall tonal quality, but there's too many variables going on for me to say just how exactly. The 55mm pinched ortho sounds very, very good to my ears, but, ceteris paribus, the difference between an aniso HP-1 and B&O U70 is night and day, imo, the U70 being to my favor. And I'd agree, there's a big difference between an SFI and a T10, from tonal quality to detail retrieval, to resonance frequency peak, and so on. They're just completely different animals, imo, especially when compared in their respective stock enclosures.
 
It's surprising how little needs to be done to get certain drivers to (arguably) sound flippin' fantastic, I'd agree.
 
My dad's got an old Sony receiver tucked away in the garage somewhere. I knew he was into Akai reel to reels, Audio Technica turntables, Koss Pro4AA's and the such when he was in college, but he failed to mention the -or I never listened close enough to him to hear he had a- "TOL" Sony receiver... He said he'd probably never sell it, he just doesn't know who could get any use out of it... I told him to go get it and that my F1000's could appreciate it! Still don't know where exactly that thing is or what kind of restoration might need to go into it, but if he's willing to part with it I'll find a corner for her, you can be sure. That or give the F1000's to my dad. He's not really a headphone guy anymore, and they'd for sure need a recable before gifting them to anyone, so who knows. If the ECR-Ortho ever gets finished I might just give him a pair of those? The F1000's are still rather novel, imo, so Idk. Maybe give him both or let him decide. If push comes to shove find a nice pair of Maggies for my dad, I'm sure he could get into that kind of thing. Not sure if his Sony has enough oomph for a pair of Maggies, tbh, though. I think he read me the specs and it gave out like 50wpc or something. Probably enough for him to enjoy his music a great deal, or maybe even get him bit by the audio bug all over again. Wonder what Mom will say about Maggies in the family room...
 
Ikr? Dynamics? I mean, honestly, who wastes their time with that crap? Oh yea, the F1000 is dynamic. Why'd AKG stop building those? Tooling was too expensive? Criminy... Seriously, the K1000's have detail rivaling anything I've heard to date, they're that good. I honestly think they'd sound phenomenally good with a sealed ear chamber, and proper ear-to-driver placement would probably be easier to achieve?

Would any other pads fit on them? I love HM5s myself and they're generally the only ones I use nowadays. Not gonna add to the sorb hype anymore btw; just try it and see for yourself 
beerchug.gif

 
It's not just the surface area but the magnet to hole ratio, how the driver is tensioned, etcetc that affect it too. I reckon that's why there are so many differing opinions on Russky orthos due to QC making two examples of the same model sound possibly quite different to each other depending on how well/badly put together it was. I'm currently a fostex fan with a very soft spot for the ID1. Not sure what it is about the ID1 exactly but it just sounds so natural to me that I can't help but miss it every other day or so. Ahh I miss it a ton but one driver broke on me like Leeperry's T20v1 a while back...
 
I reckon a well designed enclosure is one that doesn't require hours and hours to find a perfect damping scheme and tbh, I find that size plays a large part as there's a huge difference between, say, the itty bitty yammy HP-1 shell and even something relatively cheap like your CD280 when it comes to how the driver sounds.
 
I'm personally using a really nice Harman Kardon HK 930 with 48W per channel. It's probably the best amp I've heard in a while and something I'll never part with no matter what happens as nothing else I've heard so far really comes close to its level. I haven't tried orthos directly off the speaker taps yet but that's something I probably should get on to doing once I make an adapter for my cans. I do know the K1000 drivers'll probably sing off the taps of your Sony. I'm not sure if 50 is enough for maggies though, maybe to fill a small room but iirc those are pretty inefficient though I may be wrong. Vintage audio is positively magnetic though as we orthoheads no doubt have already realized so I think the bug will bite your pop very soon 
evil_smiley.gif

 
Don't worry, was only joking; I just like the advantages orthos have over dynamics a bit more than the advantages dynamics have over orthos. I'm not sure what effect sticking K1k drivers in a sealed enclosure would have as they're designed to be in a fully open space but then again it is worth a try. Ideal ear-driver placement would be different for every person though...
 
 
Dont sell to him, sell to me! 
biggrin.gif

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 
Apr 3, 2016 at 1:17 AM Post #24,507 of 27,306
I got an impression you are doing it without fully understanding what this pentagon form is actually for ^__^ No offence. It seems kind of naive that you will get something similar to ECR-500 just by copying its form, its not even same driver principle.
Other than that, and to the driver itself - I see a lot of problems - huge gaps between magnets - very uneven driving force, huge driver area at the center is just wasting (btw it is not clear if the driver is center pinned or not), relatively small openings, large part of the diaphragm is covered with bulky and heavy aluminum layer - I mean the areas under the magnets, etc..
I strongly suggest you try serpentine pattern first, it is much easier to do with good result - easier to align magnets in perfect rows without gaps, no need to fill such large areas with alum, also you can design it to use only similar-sized magnets. Overall it will be easier to control diaphragm behavior, easier to assemble, more uniformly driven..
But spiral pattern looks much cooler, that is true :)

Gotcha. Will be sure to try and bother you at some point with the project's progress.
 
Would any other pads fit on them? I love HM5s myself and they're generally the only ones I use nowadays. Not gonna add to the sorb hype anymore btw; just try it and see for yourself 
beerchug.gif
I tried the sorb on the CD280, I think I like it. Was pretty lazy with how I put it on there, too, just cut two long strips per baffle and stuck 'em on there. Didn't even bother removing the 3M logo'ed paper, tbh. Sounds more tamed to my ears. Kinda makes me question how throwing some foam tape on the baffles can have such an effect on the sound. I'd like to spend more time with this stuff to get a better idea of what I think I'm hearing.
It's not just the surface area but the magnet to hole ratio, how the driver is tensioned, etcetc that affect it too. I reckon that's why there are so many differing opinions on Russky orthos due to QC making two examples of the same model sound possibly quite different to each other depending on how well/badly put together it was. I'm currently a fostex fan with a very soft spot for the ID1. Not sure what it is about the ID1 exactly but it just sounds so natural to me that I can't help but miss it every other day or so. Ahh I miss it a ton but one driver broke on me like Leeperry's T20v1 a while back...
The ID1 is a good driver, I'll agree with that. A better enclosure would treat it very well if you asked me.
I reckon a well designed enclosure is one that doesn't require hours and hours to find a perfect damping scheme and tbh, I find that size plays a large part as there's a huge difference between, say, the itty bitty yammy HP-1 shell and even something relatively cheap like your CD280 when it comes to how the driver sounds.
Agreed.
Don't worry, was only joking; I just like the advantages orthos have over dynamics a bit more than the advantages dynamics have over orthos.

No offense was taken, I'm an orthonaut and wizard myself; I was sorted into Hufflepuff.



 
Apr 3, 2016 at 12:27 PM Post #24,509 of 27,306
  Wood sounds good, don't get me wrong, but what about the Lawton mods? That was basically laminating Dynamat over the entire insides of Mahogany driver enclosures, no? Granted, the wood cups on the D5000 are pretty thin and whatever wood they used is not very dense, imo. Doesn't surprise me Dynamat helped a great deal in that situation.

 
lol yeah slapping aluminium-lined dynamat onto the inside of cups would create more problems than it would fix IMO.
 
Wood doesn't sing along with the music if it's solid and reasonably thick, it will only resonate IME and we got cures for this. No plastic "ting" TYVM.
 
Apr 3, 2016 at 8:51 PM Post #24,510 of 27,306
A few notes:
- Micropore tape is too permeable to make any big difference in FR.
   - Masking tape really well isolates certain areas of the driver to attenuate certain frequencies
- I think if these era pads were semi-permeable that might be the perfect way to finally kill the final mid-bass hump but may risk losing sub bass.
   - I notice when i wear them 'incorrectly' without pressing them in for a perfect seal, it helps even out the bass 
It could just be a simple matter of wearing them in a slightly different position than I'm used to which I'm quite picky about since I always prefer full size headphones.
- Too much foam inside the earpad makes bass boomy and treble aggressive and coloured. A small amount like this evens things out a bit in the mids it seems.
- It's really surprising how good these still sound despite SO much of the driver area being covered up.
 
So, this is as far as i can take these for now. 

Interesting work. These are hella expensive, but might fit the bill, imo:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica-HP-ESW9-Replacement-Ear-Pads-Pair-Free-tracking-ship-Japan-/152014779865?hash=item2364c975d9:g:qx8AAOSwu1VW5ip3
I got a pair of faux-leather ESW9 earpads for my ATH-M2's. Their construction really wasn't bad quality and they only cost me like $15 IIRC, but can't find them on eBay right now. See here:

 
The Grado-style leather pad such as this helps a lot with comfort, ime, and in the past we've discovered how simply playing with the inner diameter of the pad as well as inner and outer pad materials can have a pretty drastic effect on the sound.
 
Also, the masking tape is completely non-permeable, correct? Do you think you could put a big square piece of sorb or even a glob of molding clay over the masking tape without ruining everything you've got going right now?
 

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