[ruuku]

Quote:

Hey
 
I have been thinking of getting a set of AD700 headphones due to the rave reviews they have been getting here and elsewhere for some time now. I need them for gaming. 100% gaming.
 
*SNIP*
 

Unfortunately Impulse, and your fears that your receiver does not support Dolby Headphone are true. Such a shame because looking at the specs its a really good HTR (I'm rather fond of Onkyo HTRs). Perhaps the cheapest way to get DH out of your ps3 is to track down a DSS1/2 (of all the options I believe this to be one of the cheaper ones.), then pair it with an easier to drive headphone (like the AD700) for a direct connection, or use your Onkyo as an amp for something a little harder to drive. As far as mics go you might want to look at noise cancelling if your significant other is going to be practicing piano in the same room. The Labtec can be found on ebay for about $15.00 or  you could pay a little more and wait for the (V3.0/V4.0) modmic... a little more expensive, but tons more elegant. To connect the mic to the PS3 youre going to need a cheap USB Soundcard (the kind that looks like a flash drive) which has a mic input. These can be found on deal extreme for less than $3. Of course the the more elegant solution (mixamp) is also more expensive.
 
As for isolation... clearly the AD700s are not going to do you any favors in this regard... Would it be true to say that the leaking of the AD700 is more of a factor than the incoming ambient/surrounding noise? If so then I think it more or less depends on the space which you will be gaming. Unless you really like to crank the volume, or if your wife has super hearing, the AD700s shouldn't be too much of a bother... at least from 15-20' away. OTOH if you're bothered by the piano, and decide to turn up the volume of the game...well then I would clearly choose either a semi-closed or closed hp. 

Where are you located? If you're in the US, then your best bet may be to buy off Amazon (make sure the seller is Amazon though, not a 3rd party)... if the AD700 leak too much then you can always return them for something a little more closed (say the CALs/DT990s) with out too much of a headache or penalty. 
 
I 2nd impulses' advice and give the 1st page a good read through though. It might also help sort out what your second or third choice may be if the 700s are a no go. 

 

[shanek248]

Quote:

Surround and connection issues aside, you're gonna be listening to your wife's piano right thru those AD700... Open headphones might not be the best idea if isolation's an issue, unless she's like one room away. She'll probably even hear the AD700 leaking in between piano notes.

You should really read thru the first post of the thread, it'll answer lots of questions, but the AVR that do a competent job of surround emulation thru the headphone output aren't many... Mostly Yamahas and older discontinued models from other brands I think, don't hold me to that tho.

 
Thanks for the reply!
 
Well the issue of my wives piano is much more minor than finding a nice headset which does a good job of directional positioning in the 3d environment. It is not as If I game 24 hours a day and my wife practices constantly beside me. But sometimes these things do overlap!
 
A certain amount of leak either direction would be fine but due to the fact that my rear right hand side speaker is positioned a few feet above her head at the moment. She requires me to turn the volume way down. She is a very high standard pianist so her piano really has to take priority over my MLG aspirations. ;-p
 
Really this is my question though. Will my receiver even output a signal which can match the mixamp when it comes to making the ad700s a good headset for my particular brand of gaming. 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

The Koss family, tested off my Sansa Fuze V2

 

[shanek248]

Originally Posted by ruuku /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Unfortunately Impulse, and your fears that your receiver does not support Dolby Headphone are true.

Originally Posted by ruuku /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Such a shame because looking at the specs its a really good HTR (I'm rather fond of Onkyo HTRs). Perhaps the cheapest way to get DH out of your ps3 is to track down a DSS1/2 (of all the options I believe this to be one of the cheaper ones.), then pair it with an easier to drive headphone (like the AD700) for a direct connection, or use your Onkyo as an amp for something a little harder to drive.

Thanks. I am glad I made a good choice!! Am I right in thinking you are recommending a midi keyboard to drive the headset? What do you mean by the last sentence? "or use your Onkyo as an amp for something a little harder to drive." It probably is self explanatory to you but I am not sure how this is a solution. apologies! 

Originally Posted by ruuku /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 As far as mics go you might want to look at noise cancelling if your significant other is going to be practicing piano in the same room. The Labtec can be found on ebay for about $15.00 or  you could pay a little more and wait for the (V3.0/V4.0) modmic... a little more expensive, but tons more elegant. To connect the mic to the PS3 youre going to need a cheap USB Soundcard (the kind that looks like a flash drive) which has a mic input. These can be found on deal extreme for less than $3. Of course the the more elegant solution (mixamp) is also more expensive.

The issue of my wife and the Piano is not as major as I may have implied. On the occasions where she is practicing I can simply turn off the mic. Thanks!

Originally Posted by ruuku /img/forum/go_quote.gif
As for isolation... clearly the AD700s are not going to do you any favors in this regard... Would it be true to say that the leaking of the AD700 is more of a factor than the incoming ambient/surrounding noise? If so then I think it more or less depends on the space which you will be gaming. Unless you really like to crank the volume, or if your wife has super hearing, the AD700s shouldn't be too much of a bother... at least from 15-20' away. OTOH if you're bothered by the piano, and decide to turn up the volume of the game...well then I would clearly choose either a semi-closed or closed hp. 

I dont think leaking in either direction should really be an issue... I have never hade an open HP before so I am not sure how much they leak but I think she can play with a bit of my noise and I can play with a bit of hers. The room is quite big ... but... she will be sitting about 10 feet from where I sit.

Originally Posted by ruuku /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Where are you located? If you're in the US, then your best bet may be to buy off Amazon (make sure the seller is Amazon though, not a 3rd party)... if the AD700 leak too much then you can always return them for something a little more closed (say the CALs/DT990s) with out too much of a headache or penalty. 
 
I 2nd impulses' advice and give the 1st page a good read through though. It might also help sort out what your second or third choice may be if the 700s are a no go. 

I`m located in Ireland but my best options would most likely be the same... eBay and amazon.
 
I thought I had read the whole start part but since two of you have now recommended I read it I obviously missed something so Ill read it all again. Really for me I want something that supplies that competitive edge. Directional Positioning. I have a broken pair of Trittons which I found excellent but all the guys on here seem to rate them very lowly in the one regard they claim to excel. So I was intrigued by the Astro Mixamp+ad700+custom mic combo that everyone seems to champion as the best gaming headset solution. This got me to wondering if my Onkyo could drive the headset in the same way as the Mixamp.
 
Seems like such a shame to have all that power sitting there and buying a silly mixamp for 150 euro or something!
 
I will most likely try fixing my trittons myself but I am still intrigued now as to what I am missing....

 

[SoAmusing777]

Gonna have to go back and read all the messages here soon, but hope everyone is doing well. I wish someone would swoop up my receiver, as I have another one now. It's just collecting dust. Did I miss anything? lol. 

 

[Impulse]

shanek248, your receiver may or may not drive low impedance headphones any better than something like the Mixamp, but it wouldn't be a big disparity either way, might not even do that great a job to be honest...

Truthfully the headphone output of AVRs isn't always the greatest, and even when it is decent it might still have impedance issues with low impedance headphones made to be driven by portable or lower power sources.

Then on top of all that most AVR don't do surround emulation or a good job of it, which is another topic altogether from how well of a job they'll do electrically powering the headphones. I'm not sure if you were grasping those differences which is why I suggested reading the first post (expand the spoiler sections etc), if it's too confusing or MLE glosses over some concepts (been a while since I read thru it myself so I forget how it's structured) you can possibly look up some of Evshrug's guide/FAQ threads.

There are certainly some cheaper options than the Mixamp as far as surround emulation goes (DSS, Recon3D etc.), each has it's particular pro/cons... Most of them can easily drive something like the AD700, CAL, or HD558 since they aren't very power hungry headphones.

As far as open headphones goes, if you don't mind hearing the piano in the background and your wife doesn't mind a slight murmur in the background (that's roughly how she'd perceive it, depending on your volume and her piano playing etc) then they'd work.

 

[Glacial]

Hi, I like to play PC games and want a headphone that has good surround effects detail to spot enemy in FPS game. Also if possible I would like the wireless one.
 
After some browsing I came to this Sennheiser RS 220. Is this headphone good enough to meet my criteria above?
 
How well (clarity, surround effects, etcs) wireless headphones like RS 220 compared to wired ones say Sennheiser HD 600/ HD 650?
 
Thx.

 

[Impulse]

You're always gonna pay significantly for the wireless factor, so a wired headphone in the same price range's gonna be better technically than a wireless one... That being said, Senn's RS line are probably the beat wireless options out there.

The 220 are like 50% more expensive than the HD 600 for instance... I've tried a couple of the lower tier models and found them pleasant enough, never gamed with one tho, but it should work. The RF model my uncle has is a bit too noisy to be worth the premium IMO but the newer (and pricier) models have made huge improvements on wireless tech. The 220's at the top of the heap, and voiced like an HD 6x0... It might not be the best gaming headphone one out there (depending on whether it's closer to the 600 or 650) but it's probably better than most other wireless options. There's some rough comments on the line here:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-wireless

What are you using as your source on the PC? (sound card, on-board motherboard audio, etc.) Most of the RS models have RCA inputs but the 220 also has optical so it's pretty flexible in that regard, if you want surround emulation you'd still want a cheap sound card to do it tho (like the DGX).

It's not gonna drive the headphone at all, obviously, so it's just a matter of what it feeds the base station...

Is your PC hooked up to a TV? I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to go wireless if you're still at a desk but anyway... I've seen some complaints in the Amazon RS 180/170 reviews about a slight latency in the signal, which would be a deal breaker for competitive gaming. No clue about the 220... I think the slight lag is often due to how people hook them up into their HT though (different components can introduce it and they usually notice when the speakers are out of timing with the hp), I've seen similar issues with Bluetooth and I've also seen BT headsets with zero lag.

It'd be a good idea to buy from Amazon or somewhere with a good return policy anyway.

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

Okay so I got my Sportapros in.

Headband is terrible, lol. So cheap looking. Pretty comfy though. I still prefer the parts express headband, as its a lot less obtrusive and just as comfy.

Popping the drivers out wasn't as easy as I though. They were really on there, but they came out soon after, and putting them back on was a lot easier, as well as taking them off from then on.

I got a brief session with the sportapro headband, and I didn't feel the headband and enclosure didnt really affect SQ like I thought it would. It slightly alters how the drivers sit on my ears compared to the PE headband, KSC75 clips, and KSC35 clips.

Ultimately, I think the KSC75 sounds best with its own clips (as long as the clips are bent inward so the driver hugs your ears tightly. They are a bit loose out of the package). The KSC35 don't fit the same way on the KSC75 clips as the enclosure is thinner, so it sounds more ideal off it's own clips as well. After a longer session with the PE headband, I ultimately felt that it's too finicky with placement and alters the sound of either Koss driver depending on where it rests. With their own clips, the drivers pretty much sit in the perfect spot, everytime. So while the PE headband is nice for those that just can't deal with clips, I'd say the clips are better suited, sonically. The Sportapro headband is nearly as good as the PE headband, but with more plastic and overall parts. The headband works in a pinch, but I'd say it's worth getting the PE headband instead.

So what about the Sportapro driver? Is it the sams as the KSC35? Well, one exterior difference from my KSC35 to the Sportapro driver is that the cable is slightly thicker (almost imperceptible), and it terminates into a right angle 3.5mm plug with a much better strain relief. So the Sportapro sold today has a better cable than the KSC35 sold by Koss directly. Though the cable is different, that could be purely a design change, and not because the two are different.

Testing the differences on all headbands and clips, I can say that despite slight variation of sound (possibly driver variation or if you wanna believe, burn in as my KSC35 has a TON of hours as I used it like 5 hours every night at work), the KSC35 and Sportapro, to ME are the same.

Here's the predicament. The Sportapro might have the same drivers, but the KSC35 clips are the BEST for the KSC35 in terms of raw SQ. This to me personally, is undeniable.

So while you can get Sportapro for cheap, you won't have the KSC35 clips. I can't even find the KSC35 clips for sale alone.

The only thing I can think of is that once your Sportapro drivers go bad, you can send the drivers alone in for repair and tell them its a KSC35 but dont have the clips. Lol. You might get caught as the cable is different.

All in all, I suggest the Sportapro + KSC75 as a makeshift KSC35. The difference isn't huge, but I feel the KSC75 clips on the Sportapro drivers is maybe just a hint inferior to the same with KSC35 clips.

Too bad it goes for $45 on Koss. That's too expensive over the Sportapro which is around $20. $25 just for cheap plastic clips is illogical. With the Sportapro + KSC75, you get two different drivers, plus really comfy clips for $35.

Was able to A/B the Sportapro drivers w/KSC35 clips vs KSC35 w/KSC75 clips. While similar, the Sportapro still edges out the victory, so it lets me know the Sportapro really is the same as the KSC35.

One thing I noticed is that the KSC75 with it's own clips is more v-shaped than the KSC35 or Sportapro drivers with tbe same clips. Its unquestionably brighter on the treble, and slightly mid recessed in direct comparison. Bass is near the same (that clip bending mod really brought out the bass in the KSC75).

Btw, to clarify on why I think the KSC35 clips are better sounding than the KSC75 clips, its because they aren't bendable, and automatically places the KSC35/Sportapro drivers at the optimal distance and placement for most balanced sound. The KSC75 clips might be bendable, but is harder to put in the perfect distance/tightness. My KSC75 clips make the KSC35 slightly more bassy than balanced in comparison to the KSC35 clips. Not by much, but it's noticeable. In theory, the KSC75 clips can be just as good as the KSC35 clips, but getting it to be that perfect would be hard, not to mention the constant use would change the distance eventually. Not an issue with the KSC35 clips.

that's good to hear. I want a sporta pro for well working out! As IEMS r a sin in my book <3
 
also loving the w1000x, after 4 days the head band has burned in lol 

 

[unclerico]

Just a quick update on my search for a good audio gaming (xbox360) setup.....
 
First of all, I want to thank MLE and the other posters in here for their great knowledge and info sharing, it's helped me immensely. I literally didn't know what terms like "sound stage, warm sound, etc.) even meant a few months ago. I was looking for a good setup mainly for fps shooters(cod), in order to hear footsteps and to get immersed into the game. I decided to buy 3 headphones just to test them out for myself (Audio Technica AD700, BD 990 pro, and 2013 Astro A40's/mixamp. I'm not going to go into any in depth review because to be honest MLE's reviews, as well as others, are spot on to my findings. AD700--Great for gaming, but GIGANTIC, and I have a huge head. I just couldn't deal with the loose fit. BD 990 pro---Sounded great, but the clamp is just too damn tight for me, Astro A40's---Overall sounded good, but not nearly the sound stage and positional directionality as the others. The headset was by far the most comfortable, by a landslide. By the way, I used the mixamp to drive all the headsets. I'm very leery of the 2013 Astro setup however. I've read hundreds of horror stories of their bad mics, mixamp failures, and atrocious customer service. Through all of this reading and testing, I've finally learned what characteristics are important to me, as far as a gaming setup and that's due to this site, so "Thank You".
I'm still going to try a couple more setups since i haven't really hit a home run yet. My next victim will be the AKG Q701's. Does anyone have any advice on what setup I should use with these cans for an Xbox360. I'm assuming that I need a virtual sound device(mixamp, recon, etc) and an amp(fiio e12) power the q701's? If anyone has any specific knowledge on this subject I would greatly appreciate your feedback.
Once again, thanks very much to this site and MLE!!!

 

[roguegeek]

MLE (or anyone else really), looks like you had comparatively good impressions of the HE-4 and HE-400 for general use. Any new thoughts on the HE-500 for general use and gaming?

 

[shanek248]

Quote:

shanek248, your receiver may or may not drive low impedance headphones any better than something like the Mixamp, but it wouldn't be a big disparity either way, might not even do that great a job to be honest...

Truthfully the headphone output of AVRs isn't always the greatest, and even when it is decent it might still have impedance issues with low impedance headphones made to be driven by portable or lower power sources.

Then on top of all that most AVR don't do surround emulation or a good job of it, which is another topic altogether from how well of a job they'll do electrically powering the headphones. I'm not sure if you were grasping those differences which is why I suggested reading the first post (expand the spoiler sections etc), if it's too confusing or MLE glosses over some concepts (been a while since I read thru it myself so I forget how it's structured) you can possibly look up some of Evshrug's guide/FAQ threads.

There are certainly some cheaper options than the Mixamp as far as surround emulation goes (DSS, Recon3D etc.), each has it's particular pro/cons... Most of them can easily drive something like the AD700, CAL, or HD558 since they aren't very power hungry headphones.

As far as open headphones goes, if you don't mind hearing the piano in the background and your wife doesn't mind a slight murmur in the background (that's roughly how she'd perceive it, depending on your volume and her piano playing etc) then they'd work.

 
 
Thanks a million. I see what you mean and don`t worry I didn`t take any offence to being told to go back and read. I will go back and take a more careful read because I don`t remember any theory in there!! Clearly I glossed over it! I did my undergrad in electronic engineering so I should be able to catch on .... eventually.
 
Im not completely focused on getting open headphones since I dont even know what the advantages would be in my case. I only have interest in the ad700s due to the reviews they are getting across the board for my particular needs. The fact that they are open headphones is merely coincidental. This is all very interesting. Seems I have a lot to learn when it comes to headsets.
 
I was hoping against the odds I could use my AVR with some magical set of cheap headphones as a great surround solution. It seems this is not to be..  ....lol
 
I will do some research into the cheaper surround emulation options you suggested but I fear I may have to settle for repairing my trittons.

 

[chicolom]

Quote:

Just a quick update on my search for a good audio gaming (xbox360) setup.....
 
First of all, I want to thank MLE and the other posters in here for their great knowledge and info sharing, it's helped me immensely. I literally didn't know what terms like "sound stage, warm sound, etc.) even meant a few months ago. I was looking for a good setup mainly for fps shooters(cod), in order to hear footsteps and to get immersed into the game. I decided to buy 3 headphones just to test them out for myself (Audio Technica AD700, BD 990 pro, and 2013 Astro A40's/mixamp. I'm not going to go into any in depth review because to be honest MLE's reviews, as well as others, are spot on to my findings. AD700--Great for gaming, but GIGANTIC, and I have a huge head. I just couldn't deal with the loose fit. BD 990 pro---Sounded great, but the clamp is just too damn tight for me, Astro A40's---Overall sounded good, but not nearly the sound stage and positional directionality as the others. The headset was by far the most comfortable, by a landslide. By the way, I used the mixamp to drive all the headsets. I'm very leery of the 2013 Astro setup however. I've read hundreds of horror stories of their bad mics, mixamp failures, and atrocious customer service. Through all of this reading and testing, I've finally learned what characteristics are important to me, as far as a gaming setup and that's due to this site, so "Thank You".
I'm still going to try a couple more setups since i haven't really hit a home run yet. My next victim will be the AKG Q701's. Does anyone have any advice on what setup I should use with these cans for an Xbox360. I'm assuming that I need a virtual sound device(mixamp, recon, etc) and an amp(fiio e12) power the q701's? If anyone has any specific knowledge on this subject I would greatly appreciate your feedback.
Once again, thanks very much to this site and MLE!!!

 
What have you been running the headphones you already bought off of?  I'm assume your on a console right?
 
You may not need an amp, but you should get definitely get a surround sound device.  Everything in this thread is based off of use with a surround sound device.
 
With the Q701s I'd say either a Mixamp or DSS v1.  If you don't need CHAT the DSS is way cheaper and will work fine with the Q701s. 

 

[ruuku]

Quote:

*SNIP*
I will do some research into the cheaper surround emulation options you suggested but I fear I may have to settle for repairing my trittons.

Which pair of Trittons do you have? 
 
 
Quote:

Im not completely focused on getting open headphones since I dont even know what the advantages would be in my case. I only have interest in the ad700s due to the reviews they are getting across the board for my particular needs. The fact that they are open headphones is merely coincidental.

 
In your case (IE, competitive gaming being the highest priority) an open headphone is the best solution. Open headphones deliver a more open, spacious presentation of the sounds which translates into more soundstage (the amount of distance the sounds can emulate is much wider). This leads to greater positional accuracy, which is key in FPS gaming which have at least some directional audio keys (footsteps, gunshots, callouts, ect) However since they're open (drivers exposed) it also means that there is a lack of isolation.

 

[Evshrug]

Shanek248,
As an EE, the impedance discussion would probably make the most sense to you, but... It may remind you of work, lol.

Virtual Surround processing:
I'd like to clarify one thing: the receiver is an amplifier (and a DAC if your Xbox/PS3 is hooked up to it via HDMI), and the headphone changes analogue signal to sound (yay), but what creates the virtual surround isn't in the headphone (usually), it's in sound processing. Some receivers have some form of virtual surround or simulated surround, I urge you to look in your manual to see if your receiver has a section on that (probably very brief, but still in the index). Virtual surround processing is the secret sauce that creates those forward/backward/directional sound cues in your headphones when fed a 5.1,7.1, or full 3D surround signal. And yes, I have an "article" guide on this in the journal thread linked in my signature, with a few samples that include the processing "baked in" to the sound already so you can hear it with your headphones on. The point of Astro's Mixamp, Creative's Recon3D, Turtle Beach's DSS and DSS2, the base station included with the Tritton AX720, and some receivers (and gaming soundcards in computers) is to do this surround processing. In the US, the cheapest option is a used Turtle Beach "DSS" for around $25 (maybe plus shipping), though if you want easier control of chat volume the Astro "Mixamp" is the most intuitive option and it also has a higher quality amp with less background static noise (almost silent when no audio is played, right Mad?), I bought Creative's "Recon3D USB" for half the price of the Mixamp because it works with consoles but offers full PC support too and has no audible background noise with my AD700.

Open vs Sealed/Closed back headphones:
Closed or sealed headphones are basically like earmuffs with speakers inside. That always produces some degree of resonance, so it becomes harder to produce the subtle sound differences that create the impression of different depths/distances of sound. Some can do that pretty well, but open headphones always have the best models. It's not the biggest difference, but once I heard it and got used to it I became addicted Of course this works well with surround processing too. There are of course other options than the AD700, but the AD700's big draw is it has the biggest (and most even) soundstage of any headphone below basically $500 USD, and it has high sensitivity so you don't need a high-wattage amp to hear it's full potential. If you get the AD700 (the earcups are about half the size of my head, FYI, though I love 'em), you will hear room noises almost like you weren't wearing anything at all, and to other people your audio will sound like those people who play their iPod earbuds way too loud (though they won't sound too loud to you, it's just they are bigger "speakers" is all). Easy to get used to IMO, also I like knowing when my family gets home or wants to talk to me. The grills are a tint of purple not pink... Listen to the song "Purple Haze" and you'll feel in the mood to rock 'em, but you'll probably leave them at home Audio Technica also released a refreshed version very recently, the AD700x – I have no idea what they sound like and of course they cost more being new, but I'm curious about them.

Let's see, was there anything else... Oh, I started my undergrad as a student of mechanical engineering, but I failed Calc even though I was doing fine with Physics. Life takes us in funny directions. I work as a shift manager at a restaurant now and do graphic design work on the side.