[Evshrug]

What happened to this review???

You don't seem to be answering you PM's either..

It appears he went a different direction, and has fallen in love with a high-end Fostex.

In my opinion, I went from the very bass-light AD700 headphones to the Q701, and I don't think the bass conceals details... If anything, the Q701 is more detailed. The Q701 is not even close to having overpowering bass, and would never be a target for a basshead can... I think bass sounds very natural and balanced, it's just where I want it. People usually say Q701 bass is either tight or even not strong as they want. The separation is also really good, so you can easily concentrate on one sound amongst everything else in a game or song.

You will not have trouble hearing footsteps with a Q701 vs any other headphone. A Sennheiser HD800 or Beyer T90 may have slightly better resolution, maybe better positional imaging, but footsteps, soundstage, imaging, and detail are all extremely good and easy to hear with all three headphones. It's like saying a Bugatti Veyron is faster than a Porsche GT2, but both cars can easily pass 100 mph. Hearing footsteps is like going 100 mph.

 

[Mikesin]

Hmm, I was looking forward to his review too

. I've messaged him plenty of times since then, and none have been returned 

.

Anyway, its not that I have trouble hearing footsteps etc. (in fact I don't have trouble at all), I actually just want something that is overall better than what I have now, and the only true upgrade from the K702 is the HD800. But if the HD800 smashes the K702 at gaming, its just a huge plus.

The primary use of the HD800 is definitely not for just games, but of course for music aswel. The K702 I have, I use for everything, its my primary headphone, as I just enjoy using them over all my other headphones even on genres that are not quite suited for the K702.
 
Quote:

It appears he went a different direction, and has fallen in love with a high-end Fostex.
In my opinion, I went from the very bass-light AD700 headphones to the Q701, and I don't think the bass conceals details... If anything, the Q701 is more detailed. The Q701 is not even close to having overpowering bass, and would never be a target for a basshead can... I think bass sounds very natural and balanced, it's just where I want it. People usually say Q701 bass is either tight or even not strong as they want. The separation is also really good, so you can easily concentrate on one sound amongst everything else in a game or song.
You will not have trouble hearing footsteps with a Q701 vs any other headphone. A Sennheiser HD800 or Beyer T90 may have slightly better resolution, maybe better positional imaging, but footsteps, soundstage, imaging, and detail are all extremely good and easy to hear with all three headphones. It's like saying a Bugatti Veyron is faster than a Porsche GT2, but both cars can easily pass 100 mph. Hearing footsteps is like going 100 mph.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Nothing great smashes another great anything for gaming. There is only so much detail and positional accuracy you can have before anything better is gonna be insignificant. The HD800 will definitely sound better, but in terms of positional cues, it's gonna be unnecessary and slight. It's not gonna give you an advantage over someone using an AD700, Q701, PC360, etc.

I think people are expecting way too much out of the differences between one great headphone and another.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Quote:

I think people are expecting way too much out of the differences between one great headphone and another.

 
That happens a lot on Head-Fi, regardless of whether we're specifically discussing gaming audio or not.
 
Sometimes, even I wonder if I'm exaggerating the differences between the SR-Lambda and SR-202 when I say that the latter has a recessed midrange (or, more specifically, the vocals don't stand out from the music, but are lost in it), and EQ doesn't really bring it forward in the same way, as there's also some sort of "grainy texture" all over the sound.
 
It's actually why I'm a bit hesitant to buy this Sony ECR-500; impressions state that it's pretty godly with binaurally-mixed content (which, in turn, suggests that it would excel at gaming with CMSS-3D Headphone, Dolby Headphone, etc.) and also has significant bass presence by electrostatic standards, but also that it has a recessed midrange, which I already found out that I can't stand. That, and it's $200, which I don't have at the moment (and if I did, I'd be tempted to take another shot at getting a backwards-compatible PS3).
 
All I know is that I have relatively little experience with the vast number of headphones on the market, but the one that I have and like, I really like, and nothing has come close to it thus far, not even its own descendants. On top of that, my FR preferences are the opposite of most here in that I prefer a ^-shaped presentation with a forward midrange to bring out those vocals. Maybe I should just stop browsing Head-Fi and call it done.

 

[Fegefeuer]

HD 800 is a total waste if you buy it for gaming alone, especially pairing a Mixamp with it. :confused_face(1):

I had the K701, many Beyers including the T1 and I can't recommend anything above T90. The T90 only if you can get a great deal, otherwise DT990 600 or something with lighter bass "should" be endgame.

Consoles are limited in memory and space, thus audio gets a cut. Even though some PS3 games offer much less compressed audio (most exclusives and a few multis like Hitman, Blur etc...) most games share the same audio files across all three platforms, being limited by the Xbox 360, and you really don't wanna know how limited some of them are. Skyrim for instance is totally embarassing in that regard. And then you need gear to extract that PCM audio (or the corresponding DTS encode) properly. Mixamp won't cut it. It's limited to AC3 and SQ isn't pretty.

Of course the situation is a bit better than years ago but is going backwards from a technical standpoint. While the Fear series (1+addons), Thief, Bioshock 1 utilize superior tech and better rendering than games today, the recordings are of lower quality.

If you want the best and cleanest audio, you play on PC and a HD 800 makes much more sense but the above "rules" still apply.

With the new console generation upcoming it can only get better recording-wise. Rendering probably won't except on Sony exclusives or 343i games/Epic Games and a few better equipped or "gifted" studios.

Now don't misunderstand me. For me the HD 800 beats all others, it's SQ, imaging and soundstage is noticably superior to all of them, they are the finest for gaming that I know of but in the end you have to consider the limitations set by games.

P.S.: At the moment I consider the Fidelio X1 the best bargain for gaming and music. If you live in the EU and can get your hand on them, do it while they are cheap.

http://www.amazon.it/Philips-X1-00-Fidelio-Auricolari/dp/B008ZW2T7M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353740252&sr=8-1

 

[NamelessPFG]

On the matter of diminishing returns for games, it's safe to say that anything Stax is already gross overkill for gaming alone (going by my $250 Lambda price point, let alone the more realistic $350-450 figures), and the main reason I keep my Lambda setup is that it's a "do-it-all" headphone that also excels at music.
 
I presume that's expected of all of the $300+ Tier A setups in the list, no matter the brand. Only the richest of audiophiles would have "specialized" headphones for specific purposes.
 
And don't remind me on the path that gaming audio has taken over the years...recording quality may have gone up, but positional audio mixing and sound design has gone down, way down. (Well, some games still have good sound design with the effects, but the positioning still sucks. Frostbite engine Battlefield titles come to mind.)

 

[Evshrug]

That happens a lot on Head-Fi, regardless of whether we're specifically discussing gaming audio or not.

[...]

All I know is that I have relatively little experience with the vast number of headphones on the market, but the one that I have and like, I really like, and nothing has come close to it thus far, not even its own descendants. On top of that, my FR preferences are the opposite of most here in that I prefer a ^-shaped presentation with a forward midrange to bring out those vocals. Maybe I should just stop browsing Head-Fi and call it done.

Nameless,
I doubt that you are alone in your preference for dominant mids, done very well. As you know, it's not just vocals that live in the midrange, but the vast majority of music and general audio information. More importantly, it would be a shame if you left Head-Fi. I did for a while, but I realized that though I didn't want to catch upgradeitis, I missed having people to talk to that had a shared interest with me for headphones and Hi-Fi. I hope to someday find out there are other Head-Fi'ers living nearby, perhaps holding meets or just sharing discoveries. I think there are enough people on Head-Fi that aren't here just for buying advice. Talking to those people makes the hobby more interesting and lively, don't you think?

P.s. having fun trying on my dad's Grados again :3

 

[Evshrug]

On the matter of diminishing returns for games, it's safe to say that anything Stax is already gross overkill for gaming alone (going by my $250 Lambda price point, let alone the more realistic $350-450 figures), and the main reason I keep my Lambda setup is that it's a "do-it-all" headphone that also excels at music.

I presume that's expected of all of the $300+ Tier A setups in the list, no matter the brand. Only the richest of audiophiles would have "specialized" headphones for specific purposes.

And don't remind me on the path that gaming audio has taken over the years...recording quality may have gone up, but positional audio mixing and sound design has gone down, way down. (Well, some games still have good sound design with the effects, but the positioning still sucks. Frostbite engine Battlefield titles come to mind.)

I think I said before: if all I wanted a headphone for was gaming, I wouldn't bother with anything above my AD700. I really appreciate it's value more now, with my surround processor, a bit of bass boost, and a rubber-band between the two wings (it's the perfect size/tension, completely transformed the fit, although it's orange and shaped in the outline of a doctor). It's funny that I'll switch between it and the Q701 now depending on my mood, but now the Q is always my go-to choice for music.

Sound design may have been stifled in the past 5 or so years, but it's possible we are on the verge of a renaissance. The "convenient choice" may gain the resources to set a new bar for audio, and now that there are more gamers with more budget for at least HTIB setups and growth in the gaming headset market, the ground is fertile for great sound design and positioning as viable features to compete on. Sadly, I doubt the next generation of Xbox or Playstation will have built-in headphone ports because of the love of wireless headsets and controllers (I hope chat options don't become more restricted), but I wouldn't be surprised if they added binaural mixing or at least more surround channels that external processors can take advantage of.

Anyway, here's hoping. G'night!

 

[Fegefeuer]

The problem with external devices is that they can't handle/change/process the streams/voices directly and render/place each of them into a complex HRTF model (FIR filters etc..) but just virtualize the finalized ouput to 5.1/7.1. It's better than stereo, yes, but it's not enough. Far from it.

So we either need game engines process binaural internally (with the help of middleware or even hardware dsp) and output the finalized binaural stereo signal or send additional information towards external devices within a standard that lets them do the processing. This would however possibly lead to delays and setting up such a standard isn't realistic either.

Sound is just not a high priority for most consumers unfortunately. The only brightside is that gaming is more and more less of a niche and as Evshrug said, more and more focus is towards audio gear thanks to the headphone boom in the recent years.

 

[jasonb]

I haven't read through this entire thread, but has anybody compared Silent Cinema against the likes of the DSS, DSS2, and the Mixamp? My Yamaha receiver has Silent Cinema built in and I would just like to know if it is essentially the same thing as the Mixamp, and DSS units. Should I use what I have or should I get a Mixamp?
 
My system is PS3 - optical 5.1 to Yamaha RX-V2500 -> Q701. 
 
Also, I know the parameters for Silent Cinema are adjustable on my receiver, but I haven't played with them yet.

 

[Impulse]

Thanks for that HD650 review, good read. They were sorta that dream goal for me early on as well but I think if I ever upgrade from the DT 880's I'll definitely be leaning towards the HE-400s (not sure if my STX by itself could handle them tho). Do you ever reach for another pair of headphones at home anymore?

 

[TMRaven]

Mad Lust Envy, could you give a brief comparison between the DT880 and HD598?

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

Thanks for that HD650 review, good read. They were sorta that dream goal for me early on as well but I think if I ever upgrade from the DT 880's I'll definitely be leaning towards the HE-400s (not sure if my STX by itself could handle them tho). Do you ever reach for another pair of headphones at home anymore?

The Essence STX can drive 600-Ohm headphones, the HE-400s are 38-Ohms.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

I haven't read through this entire thread, but has anybody compared Silent Cinema against the likes of the DSS, DSS2, and the Mixamp? My Yamaha receiver has Silent Cinema built in and I would just like to know if it is essentially the same thing as the Mixamp, and DSS units. Should I use what I have or should I get a Mixamp?
 
My system is PS3 - optical 5.1 to Yamaha RX-V2500 -> Q701. 
 
Also, I know the parameters for Silent Cinema are adjustable on my receiver, but I haven't played with them yet.

I have no problems with the headphone surround sound of my Silent Cinema (Yamaha RX-V671)
Does your PS3 have HDMI?
If so, run HDMI from the PS3 to the Yamaha, then run HDMI from the Yamaha to your TV/monitor.
S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) is compressed 6-channel (5.1) 24-bit/48Khz digital audio
HDMI is PCM (uncompressed) 8-channel (7.1) 24-bit/192KHz digital audio.

 

[jasonb]

My PS3 does have HDMI, but my Yamaha receiver does not. The RX-V2500 is actually quite old. It was purchased right before HDMI became a common thing. So I have optical going from the PS3 to the receiver, and HDMI directly from the PS3 to my TV. This receiver still works perfectly fine, so until it dies I will be using it. It has 130 watts per channel (x7) and it actually sounds quite good with music and movies. I have my front speakers (Infinity Alpha 50's) bi-amped from it for music so it actually sounds quite good and gets loud too. 
 
Being that it is old, it would also have an old version of the Cinema DSP... 
Quote:

I have no problems with the headphone surround sound of my Silent Cinema (Yamaha RX-V671)
Does your PS3 have HDMI?
If so, run HDMI from the PS3 to the Yamaha, then run HDMI from the Yamaha to your TV/monitor.
S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) is compressed 6-channel (5.1) 24-bit/48Khz digital audio
HDMI is PCM (uncompressed) 8-channel (7.1) 24-bit/192KHz digital audio.