[Evshrug]

boomer think.

Nice. Attacking a person’s character to undermine their position.

In the interest of fairness and disclosure, my comments are experiential based, but I am not a DSP designer or programmer, nor the same for DACs or amps. I am on a journey, and I don’t claim to know it all, but I try to share what I have experienced or I believe to be true, as well as refer/defer to experts when possible.

I do note that Creative does not make marketing claims to improve frames per second of video game performance, or that their digital signal processing could not be done on a CPU. In fact, I believe in the past (and possibly currently) they have sold a software suite independently of hardware, and some of their low end hardware products appear to be DAC/amp hardware partnered with software installed to the host computer. However, their PCI and higher end USB products do include dedicated DSP processing chips on them: can you claim to know that there is no possible benefit at all?

I can think of at least one, even if an eCore or thread is able to multitask between the continuous DSP task and any other process: flexibility. Products like the X7, G6, Mixamp, DSS, all are able to provide DSP effects on closed systems like the PlayStation, Nintendo Switch, or even a TV with optical output, despite not being able to install a software suite on the host device. You may argue that this doesn’t necessarily increase the sound quality of the DSP result… but again, do you know that is absolutely true by every metric in practice, or is that just a theory? And can you say the flexibility aspect wouldn’t be beneficial to anyone?

 

[Chastity]

Nice. Attacking a person’s character to undermine their position.

In the interest of fairness and disclosure, my comments are experiential based, but I am not a DSP designer or programmer, nor the same for DACs or amps. I am on a journey, and I don’t claim to know it all, but I try to share what I have experienced or I believe to be true, as well as refer/defer to experts when possible.

I do note that Creative does not make marketing claims to improve frames per second of video game performance, or that their digital signal processing could not be done on a CPU. In fact, I believe in the past (and possibly currently) they have sold a software suite independently of hardware, and some of their low end hardware products appear to be DAC/amp hardware partnered with software installed to the host computer. However, their PCI and higher end USB products do include dedicated DSP processing chips on them: can you claim to know that there is no possible benefit at all?

I can think of at least one, even if an eCore or thread is able to multitask between the continuous DSP task and any other process: flexibility. Products like the X7, G6, Mixamp, DSS, all are able to provide DSP effects on closed systems like the PlayStation, Nintendo Switch, or even a TV with optical output, despite not being able to install a software suite on the host device. You may argue that this doesn’t necessarily increase the sound quality of the DSP result… but again, do you know that is absolutely true by every metric in practice, or is that just a theory? And can you say the flexibility aspect wouldn’t be beneficial to anyone?

Using an external USB-based audio device with hardware decoding / HRTF encoding does have it's uses, mostly regarding consoles and TV output. But from the perspective of the PC, it's redundant. Creative has demonstrated that you can process SBX totally in software, and using a hardware solution locks you into just that one solution. Plus you have to buy the hardware. Software solutions are much more affordable, and you can have multiple solutions. (I use Dolby Access or DTS:X depending on source material to match the encoder used, else I use Redscape for general 7.1 processing)

Using a software solution allows for flexibility in choice, and features/support. As an example, software updates to Dolby Access and DTS Sound Abound brought 24/96 support to these applications, which was useful for me since I have an extensive collection of DVD-A recordings, and use streaming services which offer HD audio music. Creative's hardware DSPs are locked at 48kHz, so they resample all audio. (not sure if this is true on current DSPs, but they do still support Direct Mode, which bypasses all DSP functions for improved audio fidelity)

The software solutions offer the choice of using whatever hardware one wishes to use. Many still use whatever onboard audio they have, and some of us have dedicated headphone setups with higher quality DACs and amps, and headphones to take advantage of this. Using a hardware solution limits you to the quality of the hardware, and as you should know, consumer mainstream audio is designed with compromises to meet budgetary requirements. Which is why I don't care for a SXFi solution: it only works using the headphone port, with no digital out option. (I understand why, they don't want HeSuVi devs to make a SXFi impulse. It's about protecting their proprietary tech.)

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Hiss was DEFINITELY both whatever year the Mixamps came from, AND variation.

Because I've had multiple 2011 Mixamps,and they were quiet. I tried a few 2013s and they were hiss monsters. It did have a variation where one was really awful after like 50% on the volume. Also multiple Mixamp 5.8s, and they have the same exact hiss.

To be fair, I have NOT heard like the past 10 years of Mixamps, and it could be the newer ones are much better. That may be something I should look into at some point.

 

[VirtuaVillain]

I… honestly don’t know about Dolby pro logic for NES games, I was a baby in the 80’s

Among the Astro Mixamps, the 2011 Mixamp was the one Mad Lust Envy said sounded the least hissy to him… I’m inclined to believe him, though it’s also possible that the design didn’t change and the Mixamp Pro continues the same design, and the level of hiss is down to sample variation. I honestly feel the two DSS sounded cleaner unless you needed Astro’s signal routing for connecting a microphone (I simply connected a mic to my Xbox 360 controller, and a USB mic to my PS4 and 5). I too have a Mixamp 5.8, the one with the wireless receiver and transmitter… it’s both the most hissy Astro but weirdly the most powerful amp too.


Honestly, I think the Creative G6, X3, and X4 blow any of the Astro gear out of the water for lower noise and more powerful amps that work well with less sensitive headphones. Many of them include a line out (for connecting to another amp) and optical output (for connecting to another DAC/amp).

If you read the Schiit Syn product description, it talks about how they developed a proprietary method for splitting 5.1 channels based off the same ancient matrixing techniques that Dolby Pro Logic II uses. This is for speakers though — with headphones, the Syn’s processing is more like a crossfeed with tweakable width. It may seem to push the sound out in front of you a bit, which can be nice, but I don’t think it would have holographic placement of sounds.

lol same

Cool, I think 2011 is the Gen 1 Mixamp, I thought I had that one but it turns out it's a Gen 0 which is terrible. I'll pick up a 2011/Gen 1 model since they're pretty cheap these days, maybe the Gen 2 as well because I've seen people say it's pretty great/best sounding and I don't think Mad Lust Envy went past Gen 1 and the 5.8. I could probably live with the slight noise on the DSS but I've tasted a cleaner sound on the JVC SU-DH1, only problem is that it's got some intermittent noise that comes and goes!

Agreed on the Creative stuff being so much better, I have an X3 and GC7 and they've been great for 5.1/7.1 DD but they don't decode Pro Logic II afaik.

Oh, that's interesting about the Syn, I did read over on ASR forums about it probably not being able to 'steer' Pro Logic 2 as well as an actual licensed Dolby decoder but then again I've read Yamahas' Silent Cinema being amazing for Pro Logic 2 decoding so who knows. Still, it's way out of my price range when I consider import fees, maybe one day I'll grab one secondhand!

Thank you for your help.

 

[VirtuaVillain]

Hiss was DEFINITELY both whatever year the Mixamps came from, AND variation.

Because I've had multiple 2011 Mixamps,and they were quiet. I tried a few 2013s and they were hiss monsters. It did have a variation where one was really awful after like 50% on the volume. Also multiple Mixamp 5.8s, and they have the same exact hiss.

To be fair, I have NOT heard like the past 10 years of Mixamps, and it could be the newer ones are much better. That may be something I should look into at some point.

That's interesting, 2013 model is a Gen 2, good to know you've tested that model as well! Will go for the Gen 1

I've seen one or two opinions that past Gen 2 they're bad but I don't know if they're talking about Dolby Digital VSS or Pro Logic 2 implementation (I think PL2 is still supported on all Mixamps).

 

[PurpleAngel]

My nephews are into FPS gaming and need to get headphones and mics for them.
Headphone wise, I'm getting them Audio Technica ATH-AD700X headphones.
Thinking of getting the latest model of Modmic to go with the headphones.
Unless someone can recommend a better add-on mic?

Edit, never mind, ended up sending them the AD700X, Modmic, Topping DX3 Pro Plus.
Hopefully works well for them.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

That's interesting, 2013 model is a Gen 2, good to know you've tested that model as well! Will go for the Gen 1

I've seen one or two opinions that past Gen 2 they're bad but I don't know if they're talking about Dolby Digital VSS or Pro Logic 2 implementation (I think PL2 is still supported on all Mixamps).

Actually no, 2013 is the 3rd gen. Gen 1 has a different aesthetic from gen 2, and Gen 3 has an EQ button and different aesthetics again. Gen 1 and Gen 2 have very little noise. 2013 was awful for noise.

If you go back to the first page, I believe I have images of each. On the 3rd post.

Gen 3:

Gen 2:

Gen 1:

I'll assume they changed to cheaper op-amps/amplifier circuitry for 2013.

 

[VirtuaVillain]

Actually no, 2013 is the 3rd gen. Gen 1 has a different aesthetic from gen 2, and Gen 3 has an EQ button and different aesthetics again. Gen 1 and Gen 2 have very little noise. 2013 was awful for noise.

If you go back to the first page, I believe I have images of each. On the 3rd post.

Gen 3:

Gen 2:

Gen 1:

I'll assume they changed to cheaper op-amps/amplifier circuitry for 2013.

I can't see your Gen 2/3 pics but I think I know what the confusion is, What you're calling a Gen 1 is what I've seen been called a 'Gen 0', with no EQ button, no Pro Logic IIx decoding (Does DPLII), has RCA jacks.

If you click through the Gen 1 link it shows this model as the Gen 1:

Confusingly the release date states 2/14/13, the same as on the Gen 2 linked in the same Reddit post, the Astro site looks like this:

Although it's a bit of a cluster **** in that I think that Gen 0 = Two models (Edit: Three models), the original 'A40 Mixamp' and something called a 'Mixamp pro 2010' both with two buttons and RCAs. In this video, you can see a slight tweak to things like the optical jack:

Gen 1 starts with the addition of the EQ button which isn't on the 'RCA/Gen 0' according to this rep but then Gen 2 is 2015 so err I think there's been some confusion on Astro's side lol

@Evshrug You were right about the DSS2 being cleaner than DSS1! shame that, at least to my ears, the DSS1 does a better job with rear channels for Pro Logic 2 decoding

 

[Evshrug]

@Evshrug You were right about the DSS2 being cleaner than DSS1! shame that, at least to my ears, the DSS1 does a better job with rear channels for Pro Logic 2 decoding

Noise was something someone else told me about, and I listened for! However… I didn’t test DPL2x At least now you have and know first hand which compromise works best for you! Both the DSS2 and the original are often screaming good deals on eBay and such… I don’t know what the going rate is now, but I picked up a DSS for $20 on eBay (ended up gifting it as an undisclosed bonus to someone who bought my AD700, along with a mixtape with some art I drew on the disc… never got a thanks or even an ebay feedback on that one), and I saw a Turtle Beach headset + DSS2 bundle on clearance for $21 that had a $20 rebate (I ended up giving the headset to a friend as a going away present; I still have the DSS2).

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Astro making it unnecessarily difficult for their generations, but ah well.

I had a whatever they wanna call it, that had RCA inputs. That one was the least noisy. the one after shared a similar noise level, and better looks, but lost some of the versatility with the inputs.

 

[turbo46]

Guys can you help me to decide about buying a new wireless headset for gaming? I would like something very comfortable and a good sound quality for sure

 

[plyr]

Guys can you help me to decide about buying a new wireless headset for gaming? I would like something very comfortable and a good sound quality for sure

The Sennheiser PC38X if you can find one, also the Epos H6PRO, which is probably the same as the GSP500.

Oh, you mean wireless. Theres a wireless version of the Epos H3PRO, but I dont know if its any good.

 

[Evshrug]

Guys can you help me to decide about buying a new wireless headset for gaming? I would like something very comfortable and a good sound quality for sure

Yeah, wireless I would look to the new Audeze Maxwell and EPOS wireless models. Trying to use Bluetooth is disappointing, but the Audeze and EPOS options use a proprietary wireless and a usb dongle (works great for PC and PS4/5).

If you don’t mind waiting a bit for a deal, I saw Woot carrying refurb EPOS GSP 670’s twice recently, last time they were $109.99: https://electronics.woot.com/offers/epos-sennheiser-gsp-670-wireless-gaming-headset-4

Personally, I just use a PC38X with a long wire It would be fun to try out the Maxwell for myself (I have a Mobius), but the PC38X isn’t broken, and if it ain’t broke…

 

[Chastity]

You can also look into using a set of TWS buds

 

[Evshrug]

You can also look into using a set of TWS buds

It’s true that aptX LL and aptX Adaptive on the newest TWS earpieces have reduced bluetooth lag by some, but sound quality and latency take a hit if you ever enable your microphone.