[Evshrug]

I never reviewed the SHP9500...

I reviewed some ancient $20 Philips headphone, the X1, and the X2, that's it from Philips.

Oh.
Well I still give you a lotta credit
It’s a lighter brighter sound, but I can’t give a full review. I disagree with Zeos’ review, but then I disagree with most of his reviews.

 

[Radio81]

I own both the 9500 and X2HR. 9500 is probably slightly better for pinpointing footsteps alone, but the X2HR is just a way more fun headphone, and way more comfortable for me. I don't use either for music. I think people knock the 9500 (outside of gaming) because it can be pretty sibilant with certain music. It's definitely not a great music headphone. It's also not a bass cannon, so for movies it can be meh. I didn't really care much for the loose fit and feel of the 9500 until I replaced the stock pads with Shure velour material. The pad swap offered additional clamping force to keep the headphones in place. SHP9500 is very lightweight, and if you tend to game for hours at a time, that is something to consider a plus over the X2HR. X2HR for me is more comfy, but also weighs more and can get heavy for long gaming sessions.

I ran the 9500 and V-Moda boompro for a bit. Not a bad combo, but the PC37X I bought after that was a huge improvement in functionality. Great sound, lightweight, and having a good built-in mic is always going to be better for everyday use than a stick on mic like a modmic, boompro, lapel mic, etc.

I mostly play FPS an don't have a problem pinpointing enemy locations in games like Modern Warfare with the X2HR. My K/D ratio is certainly not a noticeable difference between 9500 and X2HR. -My K/D is equally shtty, regardless

9600 is a hard pass for me at $130. What made the 9500 so popular is often you could find it for $50-$60. At that price, it's awesome. Maybe I'll eat my words and the 9600 is a huge improvement over the 9500, but it's too early to know for sure.

If your only option is to plug into the DS4, then I would instead spend that money on an off-the-shelf TB Stealth 600 or Sony Gold Headset. I've tried running headsets off the DS4 but there's just not enough headroom to make anything worth buying live up to its potential.

 

[Evshrug]

I own both the 9500 and X2HR. 9500 is probably slightly better for pinpointing footsteps alone, but the X2HR is just a way more fun headphone, and way more comfortable for me. I don't use either for music. I think people knock the 9500 (outside of gaming) because it can be pretty sibilant with certain music. It's definitely not a great music headphone. It's also not a bass cannon, so for movies it can be meh. I didn't really care much for the loose fit and feel of the 9500 until I replaced the stock pads with Shure velour material. The pad swap offered additional clamping force to keep the headphones in place. SHP9500 is very lightweight, and if you tend to game for hours at a time, that is something to consider a plus over the X2HR. X2HR for me is more comfy, but also weighs more and can get heavy for long gaming sessions.

I ran the 9500 and V-Moda boompro for a bit. Not a bad combo, but the PC37X I bought after that was a huge improvement in functionality. Great sound, lightweight, and having a good built-in mic is always going to be better for everyday use than a stick on mic like a modmic, boompro, lapel mic, etc.

I mostly play FPS an don't have a problem pinpointing enemy locations in games like Modern Warfare with the X2HR. My K/D ratio is certainly not a noticeable difference between 9500 and X2HR. -My K/D is equally shtty, regardless

9600 is a hard pass for me at $130. What made the 9500 so popular is often you could find it for $50-$60. At that price, it's awesome. Maybe I'll eat my words and the 9600 is a huge improvement over the 9500, but it's too early to know for sure.

If your only option is to plug into the DS4, then I would instead spend that money on an off-the-shelf TB Stealth 600 or Sony Gold Headset. I've tried running headsets off the DS4 but there's just not enough headroom to make anything worth buying live up to its potential.

I find this post satisfying.

 

[WhiteHartMart]

@JayDee12 - personally if its just for gaming - I'd go for the PC37x option mentioned. I've used these with the DS4 as well as the SHP9500 + VModa combo and now have the Tygr300r mentioned previously (although via a Creative G6). Have used/owned the Fidelio X2 for a while also but found them a tad heavy and also a little overblown in the bass for the gaming I do.

The PC37x/Game One would get my vote via the controller though as they seem to be easy enough to drive for the pad to deal with, the flip to mute mic is so convenient also plus I found the SHP9500 fit/clamp just a tad loose! Another problem I have found over time is the VModa mic arm seems to wear/loosen over time if you are repositioning it a fair bit. It seems to not want to stay where I need it and has become a pain anyway when putting the headphones away. If I wanted the headphones for multi purpose use - music etc as well then the VModa comes into play for me - for purely a gaming headset I'd go the PC37x route.

 

[danterikxx]

It’s probably OK, Mad didn’t complain, and we go waaaay back... and the video is buried under newer posts by now anyway. I appreciate the sharing, since it’s super hard to get a YouTube channel start gaining traction. This thread is Mad’s show though (and check out his YouTube channel as well! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv5zwzyOSEBk7m6u5Y6npkw). Maybe Mad and I could collaborate on a few videos, so that he can say the things I can’t say, and we both make more content. He’s fun to play Warzone with as well!

Do you think I should make two videos a week, Tuesday and Thursday’s? And do you think it would distract from the headphone content if I talked about any other tech stuff that comes to mind, or should I make a whole new channel just for headphones?

Yeah a collab between you two would be nice

Two videos a week is the perfect balance: not too much of a wait between each vídeo, and not too much content

Since headphones are used for multiple types of applications (music, games, mixing, recording, etc) and considering that some of them are related to various tech forms, makes sense to have videos about all of that

I think gaming, headphones, smartphones and Pc's go hand in hand

After all, in some cases, you cant use one without the other

 

[danterikxx]

Ah, Zeos

I don't think anyone should be taking Zeos seriously when it comes to any kind of gaming advice

While he's very experienced and reviews a lot of stuff...he also rambles a lot and gets lost in his thoughts. Plus (and like many of the headphone reviewers on youtube) for him games = online shooters and nothing else. And in one of his videos he said he's not 16 anymore to be playing llots of games....so, yeah.

(and he hypes a lot of stuff. everything is the next big thing)

I'd watch his videos more like a comedy show rather than real gaming or audio advice. Which is also good sometimes lol

 

[Evshrug]

Ah, Zeos

I don't think anyone should be taking Zeos seriously when it comes to any kind of gaming advice

While he's very experienced and reviews a lot of stuff...he also rambles a lot and gets lost in his thoughts. Plus (and like many of the headphone reviewers on youtube) for him games = online shooters and nothing else. And in one of his videos he said he's not 16 anymore to be playing llots of games....so, yeah.

(and he hypes a lot of stuff. everything is the next big thing)

I'd watch his videos more like a comedy show rather than real gaming or audio advice. Which is also good sometimes lol

I do enjoy how he gets excited about things! And, if he’s not in a hurry, he’s fun to hang out with in person too. He’s seen and done some cool stuff.

But he always likes something less expensive. And he always likes new things. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Zachik]

I'd watch his videos more like a comedy show rather than real gaming or audio advice. Which is also good sometimes lol

Same here - usually watch in bed, and fall asleep with a grin...
Only real value, for me, is exposure / discovery. He sometimes reviews products I have never heard of, usually for a good reason

 

[John Q Lin]

What's the best gaming headphone for CS:GO?
I use the audio Technica air 700x and 2000x, and a T1 strictly for CS GO, I thought the hd800 was the best, I sold it, it used to be my go-to for competitive fps, the X2 & Th900 was just not precise in sound location. I don't really want to buy another hd800, what other options are available to me? What do you guys use for fps games, that you feel it gives you the competitive advantage?

 

[AlBorland]

Alrighty, need some advice here.

Primary system - Xbox One (will be buying the Series X on release)
Primary use - "competitive" gaming (I'm oldish, but I primarily play FPS)
Current headset - Skullcandy SLYRs (3.5mm directly to controller)
Just bought - Astro A40 w/ Mixamp Pro (Gen 3) - paid $170

I'm fully aware that the best bet is to go headphones + mic, but I think I'm willing to eat the value loss and stick with a headset. I bought the SLYRs after reading Mad's review and was very surprised at how well they performed. After 5+ years with them, they still sound fine but are falling apart.

While I realize the a40's themselves are mediocre at best, I thought I'd make up that value with the Mixamp... but with having to disable the dolby processing and running with Windows Sonic on the Xbone, I'm thinking... what's the point? Sure it's nice to have a few EQs to flick between as well as the volume knobs, but in terms of overall "competitive" sound, they seem no better than the SLYRs. I can certainly be convinced to play around with some more EQ presets, but I'm leaning towards returning them. Supposedly Astro is working with Microsoft to ensure the Mixamps are still compatible with the Series X, but do they really serve much purpose if the Xbox is doing a majority of the sound processing?

So staying within that same price range, am I better off with another option? I'm content to keep the A40's - they're comfortable, pretty solidly built, and sound fine... just not sure if I'm feeling much of an upgrade over the SLYRs - which I could fix up to extend their life a bit. The last couple of pages have me leaning towards the PC37X, but definitely open to other options/opinions. (Admittedly I'm a bit partial to Sennheiser, since my first "real" headphones were the HD555s, which I still have to this day - albeit the sound balance is off).

 

[danterikxx]

Alrighty, need some advice here.

Primary system - Xbox One (will be buying the Series X on release)
Primary use - "competitive" gaming (I'm oldish, but I primarily play FPS)
Current headset - Skullcandy SLYRs (3.5mm directly to controller)
Just bought - Astro A40 w/ Mixamp Pro (Gen 3) - paid $170

I'm fully aware that the best bet is to go headphones + mic, but I think I'm willing to eat the value loss and stick with a headset. I bought the SLYRs after reading Mad's review and was very surprised at how well they performed. After 5+ years with them, they still sound fine but are falling apart.

While I realize the a40's themselves are mediocre at best, I thought I'd make up that value with the Mixamp... but with having to disable the dolby processing and running with Windows Sonic on the Xbone, I'm thinking... what's the point? Sure it's nice to have a few EQs to flick between as well as the volume knobs, but in terms of overall "competitive" sound, they seem no better than the SLYRs. I can certainly be convinced to play around with some more EQ presets, but I'm leaning towards returning them. Supposedly Astro is working with Microsoft to ensure the Mixamps are still compatible with the Series X, but do they really serve much purpose if the Xbox is doing a majority of the sound processing?

So staying within that same price range, am I better off with another option? I'm content to keep the A40's - they're comfortable, pretty solidly built, and sound fine... just not sure if I'm feeling much of an upgrade over the SLYRs - which I could fix up to extend their life a bit. The last couple of pages have me leaning towards the PC37X, but definitely open to other options/opinions. (Admittedly I'm a bit partial to Sennheiser, since my first "real" headphones were the HD555s, which I still have to this day - albeit the sound balance is off).

try the newer Sennheiser 500 series, like the 579 or the 599 (own)
i can reccoment the AKG K702 as well

these are what i personally own

but can also "recommend" some that i haven't heard or experienced, but that are good for gaming from what i hear:

Beyerdynamic DT 880, DT 990 or the TYGR 300R

all withing your budget (maybe not the K702 if you live in the US)

 

[Evshrug]

@John Q Lin What about the HD 800 made you sell it, and make you not want to buy another? Could your reservations be solved with the HD 800S, and an amp that matches up better? What is it about the Beyerdynamic T1 that has you looking around again?

@AlBorland I found that the controller’s headphone output is a significant filter that degrades the potential audio quality of any headphone. Thankfully it uses a wireless radio (2.4GHz?) instead of Bluetooth and an outdated codec for its connection to a PlayStation, however the internal DAC and amp are weak and smear things significantly. The Astro Mixamp isn’t the cutting edge of sound design either, but it should give a noticeable quality improvement over the controller.

The first thing I would recommend is inquiring with Skullcandy about their warranty repair service. That used to be a proud hallmark of theirs, and it can’t hurt to ask them kindly.

Second, if you prefer Windows Sonic over the Dolby Headphone in the Mixamp (which only works properly and to its full potential when receiving a 7.1 Dolby bitstream from the optical input... you tried it that way, right??), then you can use Sonic with any USB DAC/Amp you want. ...Sorry, just remembered you’re playing on an XBOne, which doesn’t have generic USB audio support unless the peripheral maker pays a substantial tax (price is passed along to the consumer). That makes things a bit harder... if you’re not using a microphone or have a separate solution though, I suppose you could try any DAC/amp that has an optical option, as long as you set the optical output of the XBOne to 2-channel PCM. It’s early days for “solving” audio for the XSX, we just don’t know how it will or won’t work yet, so it’s too soon to know how to set things up with that.

Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic are two examples of companies that take their regular audiophile headphones and add a broadcast quality boom mic. Between the PC37X and (Creative equivalent of the Custom One Pro) H7 Tournament, I use the PC37X for gaming on my iPad, video voiceovers, and internet calls, while my wife likes the H7 for recording audiobooks.

 

[Evshrug]

Oh! I just realized something!
Since Sennheiser spun off their entire gaming division and EPOS Audio is a whole different company (and their partnership has basically ended, amicably), I can finally talk about PC gaming soundcards and DSPs again!

For 7.1 Surround, easiest to “place” sounds and sometimes trick me into thinking something is happening IRL instead of the game, in my experience:
Yamaha’s “Silent Cinema” < NX Waves < Dolby Headphone <= CMSS3D <SBX <GSX1000 <Smyth Realiser’s default (uncalibrated) HRTF.

I honestly feel the GSX1000 makes a strong showing in surround realism, though YouTube videos sometimes sound weirder and echoey compared to in-game, and while it’s perfect with a Game One/PC37X (almost like its made for it, hmmmmm!) and great with an HD 599 or HD 58X Jubilee, a harder to drive headphone like the HD 650 or a T50RP is going to suffer from the limits of a USB powered device... but it’s a clean enough headphone output for double amping!

I would really like to try Creative’s new Super X-Fi stuff... one thing I’ve learned is that how close or far your head and ears are from the generic “head” used in most Spacial Audio DSPs can make or break the Spacial illusion, and Super X-Fi allows some degree of customization using photos and an app.


For 7.1 Surround with Headtracking... that’s a different story! Seems to be a major boon for a “VR-like” experience without motion sickness, even looking at a stationary screen all the minute “trembles” of your head and natural inclination to cock your head occasionally really helps “recalibrate” your brain’s sense of position. Think about it... with speakers, there is a bit of a crossfeed effect to both of your ears (which any spacial processing provides), and your head occludes and filters the sound a bit (HRTF, also should be included in any spacial audio processing), but also we’re free to slouch and lean and shift our position in our seat, changing our relative position to the speakers, and head-tracking is one of the last major ingredients in recreating that “speaker like” sound.

I think the NX Waves starts to pull ahead of the static spacial audio solutions when it comes to placing a sound as coming from a certain direction... but it loses some points because it still is a bit smeared and distance is a bit less natural. NX Waves is DEFINITELY helped by entering your head width, and the headtracking of motion, but it just doesn’t quite have the same level of performance and clarity as the others.

Hands down, the Smyth Realiser is the treasure of my collection. Head tracking, accurate customization based on microphones listening inside your ears (only needed during setup... but setup is a pretty involved process), a powerful processor dedicated to running their sophisticated algorithm, compatible with pretty much any computer or game console with USB or HDMI... it was always the best of show and a must-demo when Smyth was at a CanJam or other trade show. It’s amazing not only because of the peerless positional imaging, but also because of its ability to transform extremely transparent headphones (like a Stax or HD 800) to sound indistinguishable from the speakers you calibrated from. Once you get used to it, the only difference from a perfect Dolby Atmos or Ambisonics speaker setup is the lack of air pressure against your chest and skin... but hook up a subwoofer, and you can be transported to the AIX Recording Studio in Los Angeles even if you are only in a small bedroom trying to pub-stomp people in the latest shooter There are a few major caveats though: price and availability. I got in on the Kickstarter Early Bird, but last I read the retail price is $4000. I had to wait four years to get my unit after I paid them, and the last update I got from Smyth (now one year after launch) they have only shipped 255 of the backers orders so far. There are also some smaller caveats as well. The reliance on speaker-standard surround formats like 7.1 LPCM or Dolby Atmos does give it great compatibility, but ultimately it’s emulating a 7 or 16 speaker setup without pure a binaural ability for sound to come from any arbitrary angle. That’s a small complaint, I mean Atmos is pretty good, but it’s not quite as much freedom as 3D audio in VR (but VR audio doesn’t customize based on your head shape... ah well!). There is also competitive-breaking lag when gaming with Dolby bitstreaming – Smyth may be able to fix that some day, but since most games are limited to 7.1 anyway, I just use the LPCM setting from my PS4 Pro (and 7.1 over USB with my PC) and that works fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Redscape Audio’s solution seems to work better than NX Waves, and I enjoyed several auditions at two CanJams (before and after the show was open to the public! Not crowded or noisy!), however I couldn’t actually play games, just listen to music and play videos. The interaction from playing games, the control over direction, usually makes games sound way more “spacial” and “3D” to me than watching movies with a spacial DSP (not to mention most movies make hardly any use of rear channels anyway, because they want to focus your attention on the shot shown on screen, while games have constant ambient noise and freedom of perspective), but the headtracking helps somewhat to provide me some interaction with the media (including with some prerecorded gameplay). You can’t take measurements from real speakers, but I believe you could enter the width of your head. I think it has the potential to be almost as good as the Smyth Realiser A16, and far more affordable and obtainable. I don’t know how much performance the software borrows from your PC to run, but I’d gladly trade a bit of shadow quality and resolution for Sonic immersion.


The Future of Spacial Audio looks interesting, but it’s a little up in the air. Both Xbox and PlayStation have announced headphone spacial audio support out of the box for their upcoming consoles... but they said that for the PS4 and XBox One as well, with TrueAudio (PS4/AMD) and Sphere Audio (Xbox One), but developers didn’t take advantage of it, and surround audio output was limited to (bottom of the barrel crappy) controller headphone outputs, optical (which got cut from Slim models), and HDMI. Full USB support with 7.1 surround was possible with both consoles, but DSP makers like Astro/Turtle Beach/Platronics and anyone else interested had to pay about a $37 license fee PER UNIT MANUFACTURED... that cost would be passed on to the consumer or taken out of the budget for sound quality, and I just can’t think of a single good product that took advantage of this, including PlayStation’s own Gold wireless headsets. Will next gen overcome these limitations??? Maybe... there’s slightly more manufacturer promotion and press coverage about it this time, but we’ll have to see if game devs actually use it and we get quality audio components to use with it. I don’t see myself selling my Realiser

Another piece of the future of spacial Audio is in the VR space. By its nature, the audio HAS to be in 3D for VR. And headtracking is assumed. My VR experience is with the PSVR, and though it doesn’t allow for head shape customization, the algorithms aren’t as sophisticated as the Realiser, nor can you upgrade to an external DAC/amp, I still feel my PSVR provides a compelling sound (and visual) experience. I would rank it above the NX Waves with headtracking, even though the PSVR can’t calibrate based on head width. It really gives me hope that at least Sony has the chops to do spacial Audio well, and I imagine the experience with a Vive is even better because maybe you can use it with external DAC/Amp components (can you??). For anyone that can’t use VR due to motion sickness, have hope that headtracking spacial audio might be able to give you that immersion without the nausea!

Here’s to looking forward to the future, and enjoying the now!

 

[Chastity]

Since Sennheiser spun off their entire gaming division and EPOS Audio is a whole different company (and their partnership has basically ended, amicably), I can finally talk about PC gaming soundcards and DSPs again!

You couldn't discuss Sennheiser/EPOS products before? What a crap company. When working for Asus, I was free to discuss their products, as long as it was open and honest. Not once did they ever ask me not to discuss anything, even if it was a critical review of a product. In fact, I was asked for my insights on various products, including laptop positions in their marketing, audio cards, etc.

 

[Evshrug]

You couldn't discuss Sennheiser/EPOS products before? What a crap company. When working for Asus, I was free to discuss their products, as long as it was open and honest. Not once did they ever ask me not to discuss anything, even if it was a critical review of a product. In fact, I was asked for my insights on various products, including laptop positions in their marketing, audio cards, etc.

It’s not so much that I can’t talk about their products, it’s that I didn’t feel like it would be proper to make subjective statements, particularly because of my years of history exploring and reviewing binaural/virtual surround/ spacial audio products prior to consulting for Sennheiser. I quite liked the surround processing on the EPOS GSX1000 and I didn’t want people to think I was biased because I did some contract work for Sennheiser. I don’t get any sales commission, but I didn’t even want people to get that idea... it’s kind of a tricky situation. Now that they’re two separate companies though, and Sennheiser has left the gaming space, I think it’s fair game!

When Axel worked at Sennheiser, he did ask for feedback, in fact they contracted me because Jude and my friend Brian referred me among a group of people, and Axel read some of my reviews. As I said, it’s tricky and not a simple situation, but I am passionate about this stuff and love talking about it.