[theragekage]

Comparing the new AD700X with the Q701, what will be better for Competitive FPS gaming? I read the AD700X has a worst build quality then the AD700, the Q701 will be better in this case?

Thanks

I own both the AD700x and Q701 so maybe I can speak to this. Evshrug and stillhart are both right, the differences between the two are moot. Both are in the upper echelon for competitive gaming. The only reason I "upgraded" from the AD700x was purely because I wanted to use the Q701s for music listening purposes as well. The AD700x is pure gaming bliss for a competitive FPS. If you go the q701 route you would also likely have to buy an amp so even though I would recommend the q701 over the ad700x, if it is for purely FPS gaming, you will be more than happy with the 700x.

As for build quality, I had zero issues with the AD700x. Yes there is a lot of plastic but it seems that the headphone will hold up just fine over time. My only gripe was that the wings on the headband would cause the earcups to slide down over time, causing constant readjustments mid game. This can be easily fixed by doing the "rubber band mod" and isn't too much of an issue. Other than that they are extremely comfortable. The Q's are as well, but a lot of (myself included) have an issue with the bumps on the headband. This is also an easy fix as you can buy a wrap on eBay, a baby seatbelt wrap (sounds strange but it works), or just mod your headband if you are brave enough.

TL;DR - AD700x is a great headphone and build quality shouldn't be too much of a concern for the price paid.

 

[Naingolann]

Great video chicolom, thanks! Am I wrong in saying that SBX Pro Studio sounds overall clearer and less echoey~ish than DH? Rear cues seem better too. I'm digging it!

 

[Fegefeuer]

Great video chicolom, thanks! Am I wrong in saying that SBX Pro Studio sounds overall clearer and less echoey~ish than DH? Rear cues seem better too. I'm digging it!

 
I agree. It has the best compromise of sound quality and positioning. That's why it's also the best choice the higher you go in the headphone "ladder". Now it's time for DTS HPX to show its muscles. Haven't seen a sound card yet though and the TAC only does AC3 to DTS HPX. 
 
SBX-cards with X-Fi style legacy support could have been glorious though. 

 At least give us a ******* MacroFX/Elevation switch in the panel, Creative. 

 

[Stillhart]

  Since I have both cards, I made a video comparing Dolby Headphone and SBX Pro Studio.
 
The only other video I could find on YouTube comparing them was that Battlefield 3 one.
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 
 

 

 
Absolutely wonderful!  Mad, you should really add this to the guide.  This is a really helpful video.  It also reinforces my opinion that SBX sounds much better to my ears.  The spacial cues are significantly better for me.

Great video chicolom, thanks! Am I wrong in saying that SBX Pro Studio sounds overall clearer and less echoey~ish than DH? Rear cues seem better too. I'm digging it!

 
No, I agree with you, which is why I have 2 Recons and an Omni.  The only reason I'm using a Mixamp 5.8 is because I need/want wireless in my main living room because I sit so far from the TV.
 
I agree with Feg tho, looking forward to DTS Headphone X.  Feg, can you elaborate on the comment about the TAC?  It won't process actual DTS?

 

[conquerator2]

The question is, however, how do these compare on a gaming console [PS3/4, 360/One] where there's no possibility of tweaking anything via software...
That's my  ultimate question 

 

[Stillhart]

  The question is, however, how do these compare on a gaming console [PS3/4, 360/One] where there's no possibility of tweaking anything via software...
That's my  ultimate question 

 
You can actually tweak the Recon on the PC, save the settings and then use it on the console.  

 

[Watchthemfall]

First of all, thank you for this thread. It has been very helpful when looking for new headphones.
 
So, I have been using my AD700s for 4 years now, and I'm looking for a new pair to go with my new sound card. I've decided between the K612 Pro, Philips Philips Fidelio X1, and SoundMAGIC HP200. I just ordered a Sound Blaster Z that has a "600 Ohm Maxim MAX97220 amp" a few days ago. I am, however, not looking to buy a dedicated amp. My question is which of these headphones would work best with just the built in amp on the sound card? I've searched around, but I have had a hard time pinpointing exactly how good the built in amp is (I'm very new to this). I will use these headphones for games, movies, and music roughly equally.
 
Any insight on this situation would be greatly appreciated.

 

[conquerator2]

  
You can actually tweak the Recon on the PC, save the settings and then use it on the console.  

Ok, I caved... I'll do a direct comparison.


EDIT; Nah, I think I'll stick to DH for now

 

[Stillhart]

  First of all, thank you for this thread. It has been very helpful when looking for new headphones.
 
So, I have been using my AD700s for 4 years now, and I'm looking for a new pair to go with my new sound card. I've decided between the K612 Pro, Philips Philips Fidelio X1, and SoundMAGIC HP200. I just ordered a Sound Blaster Z that has a "600 Ohm Maxim MAX97220 amp" a few days ago. I am, however, not looking to buy a dedicated amp. My question is which of these headphones would work best with just the built in amp on the sound card? I've searched around, but I have had a hard time pinpointing exactly how good the built in amp is (I'm very new to this). I will use these headphones for games, movies, and music roughly equally.
 
Any insight on this situation would be greatly appreciated.

 
The built-in amp on the Z is adequate.  It will certainly provide enough volume for all of your needs.  A dedicated amp will provide more power, though, and improve the sound on some headphones that are hungry for power.
 
The K612 and the X1 will both sound fine without an additional amp, and they both have headroom to improve if you do decide to amp them later.  I don't know enough about the HP200, but I understand it doesn't have high amping requirements so it should sound plenty fine as well.  
 
You probably can't go wrong with any of those headphones; they're all very well-regarded.

 

[chicolom]

  I used FRAPS and grabbed the audio directly from the Windows Mixer. That way only youtube can mess (most) with the sound. I understand your approach though as shadowplay doesn't cost anything. 
 
Crystallizer and that Bass Boost are very useless. Crystallizer also messes with spatial cues a bit. 

 
 
Hmm...I tried that, but I'm still not getting the final Dolby Headphone output.  It's just recording either stereo or the multi-channel audio, but you are still missing the final Dolby Headphone DSP output that happens outside the PC on the Xonar.
 
How are you recording the actual DSP output digitally?
 
 
Do you know what changes when you raise the SBX surround slider from 66% to 100%?  I don't hear a ton of difference between them. 
I assumed it was some sort of wet/dry mix. 
 

Great video chicolom, thanks! Am I wrong in saying that SBX Pro Studio sounds overall clearer and less echoey~ish than DH? Rear cues seem better too. I'm digging it!

 
Thanks.
 
And no, you're not wrong - SBX is definitely clearer and less echoey sounding than DH.  Sounds are more chiseled out from each other and their placement is more discrete sounding, making it easier to hear when they start to move around.  Because DH is more diffuse and blended, it's not quite as clear with positioning.  SBX is definitely truer to the source audio, and less "processed" sounding.
 
Still, I often enjoy that more diffuse sound of Dolby Headphone.  Sounds are a little smoother and more blended together when panning.  The echo/reverb can actually be nice if you're playing a game where you are "indoors", like on a spaceship in Deadspace.  Gives a nice bit of ambience, where SBX can sometimes sound a tad too dry.  The overall sound is a little warmer on DH, with a little more body and impact on some lower freq sounds too. 
 
Sound effects also tend to sound a bit "larger" and "bigger" with DH, giving bit more of an immersive and cinematic sound.  On some games, I get an impression of more overall soundstage distance (things just being farther away sounding) with DH, which I tend to enjoy.
 
I enjoy them both. 

 
But still bring on the newer DSPs!!

 

[PurpleAngel]

  First of all, thank you for this thread. It has been very helpful when looking for new headphones.
 
So, I have been using my AD700s for 4 years now, and I'm looking for a new pair to go with my new sound card. I've decided between the K612 Pro, Philips Philips Fidelio X1, and SoundMAGIC HP200. I just ordered a Sound Blaster Z that has a "600 Ohm Maxim MAX97220 amp" a few days ago. I am, however, not looking to buy a dedicated amp. My question is which of these headphones would work best with just the built in amp on the sound card? I've searched around, but I have had a hard time pinpointing exactly how good the built in amp is (I'm very new to this). I will use these headphones for games, movies, and music roughly equally.
 
Any insight on this situation would be greatly appreciated.

 
The SB-Z is thought to have a headphone output with a 22-Ohm impedance, technically for best detail in the audio, you would want to use headphone that have at leave 8 times the impedance of the source (SB-Z)
So headphones an impedance of 176-Ohms or higher (22 X 8 = 176) is recommended, but think of it more as a very lose guide line
 
I tried my 40-Ohm ATH-A900X headphones with the SB-Z and sound quality was still decent.
 
Headphone impedance's.
SoundMagic HP 200  20-Ohms
Philips Fidelio X1        30-Ohms
AKG K612 Pro          120-Ohms

 

[Stillhart]

   
Do you know what changes when you raise the SBX surround slider from 66% to 100%?  I don't hear a ton of difference between them. 
I assumed it was some sort of wet/dry mix. 
 
 

 
I don't know exactly what changes, but I feel like the 66% works better for me for some reason.  I think the 100% sounds closer to DH, while the 66% makes it easier for me to isolate the positional cues.

 

[Watchthemfall]

   
The SB-Z is thought to have a headphone output with a 22-Ohm impedance, technically for best detail in the audio, you would want to use headphone that have at leave 8 times the impedance of the source (SB-Z)
So headphones an impedance of 176-Ohms or higher (22 X 8 = 176) is recommended, but think of it more as a very lose guide line
 
I tried my 40-Ohm ATH-A900X headphones with the SB-Z and sound quality was still decent.
 
Headphone impedance's.
SoundMagic HP 200  20-Ohms
Philips Fidelio X1        30-Ohms
AKG K612 Pro          120-Ohms

So does this mean the closer the headphone impedance is to 8 times the output of the sound card the better it will sound? (Meaning the AKG K612 will work best with the SB-Z?) I'm really just wanting this to sound noticeably better than AD700 with my setup. I've never really used any headphones other than my AD700s so I'm very new to what sounds "decent". I just don't want something that sounds worse or very close to the same as what I have, which would just be a waste of money.

 

[Evshrug]

The SB-Z is thought to have a headphone output with a 22-Ohm impedance, technically for best detail in the audio, you would want to use headphone that have at leave 8 times the impedance of the source (SB-Z)
So headphones an impedance of 176-Ohms or higher (22 X 8 = 176) is recommended, but think of it more as a very lose guide line

I tried my 40-Ohm ATH-A900X headphones with the SB-Z and sound quality was still decent.

Headphone impedance's.
SoundMagic HP 200  20-Ohms
Philips Fidelio X1        30-Ohms
AKG K612 Pro          120-Ohms

But does the 8x impedance guideline "technically" result in increased detail, or was NwAvGuy's blogger post more about how Sennheisers don't have flat impedance response, and if you use an amp with a high output impedance (and quite possibly many other design factors not taken into account) the result is more bass on top of the HD650's already higher neutral bass and subsequently some looser bass that bleeds over the mids (like many headphones with that much bass in their frequency curves already)? Do "most" headphones have noticeably nonlinear impedance response curves like NwAvGuy claims, or are we making assumptions because one guy who was banned said something that sounded plausible even though in many ways that banned guy misses/omits the bigger picture?



This isn't meant to discredit you, PurpleAngel (you know I like you), that whole paragraph above is meant to make you think "is there holes in either theory?" before passing along advice. You yourself said your 40-ohm Audio Technica's sounded decent, I'm just saying maybe there's more to the quality of an amp than output impedance, current, and voltage.

Conjecture and assumptions lead to beliefs like the earth is flat, and at the center of the universe, and that an amp is suited for the portable role even if it's too big for most pockets and all the connections and controls should be clustered on the front face.

 

[Evshrug]

So does this mean the closer the headphone impedance is to 8 times the output of the sound card the better it will sound? (Meaning the AKG K612 will work best with the SB-Z?) I'm really just wanting this to sound noticeably better than AD700 with my setup. I've never really used any headphones other than my AD700s so I'm very new to what sounds "decent". I just don't want something that sounds worse or very close to the same as what I have, which would just be a waste of money.

Just FYI, an iPod classic has an output impedance of 10 Ohms, and people have raved about how good that device can sound even with expensive 32 ohm headphones. I think there's "more to it" in good amping than output impedance dampening.

The AD700 already is more than a "decent" headphone, with great detail, soundstage, and treble "sparkle." What the X1 and K612 would give you is a more engaging "filled out" sound with better bass presence/extension, and a presentation highlighting different parts of a song, not (really) more detail or soundstage. Of the four you mentioned (I included the AD700), the K612 will have the best balance and "all around" sound suitability compared to the others and do everything well. The AD700 have probably the best soundstage and a "bright" leaning sound, the X1 will have a more bass-emphasized sound (good some music genres, out of balance for other uses and maybe distracting during competitive gaming), and the Soundmagic HP-200 (I know little about) is a closed headphone that will be useful in some environments but retain more heat in warm environs/longer listening sessions. All have positive aspects and will please you in certain ways. Since nobody can tell you what to like, I suggest you buy the headphone that sounds the most appealing to you, they're all good and popular.