Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (8/18/2022: iFi GO Blu Review Added)
May 22, 2018 at 2:54 AM Post #40,246 of 48,562
To get help with the soundblaster card you should go to special hardware forums. Tell them your complete hardware and software configuration and you will receive many advises. Else go get the GSX and a Sennheiser Game One connect and set it up as the manual says and you have all you need.


I’ve done that several times (you actually have to get approval on the creative forum which I have yet to receive), which is actually what lead me to here. :) Quite a few people suggested that separate VSS is not needed today, plenty of games do that just fine...and that a good DAC, amp and set of cans is all I need.
 
May 22, 2018 at 5:38 AM Post #40,247 of 48,562
Nah, I think overall SBX is the best virtual surround processing readily available. GSX and Dolby Headphone both have a very slight edge in rear audio cues and off angled sound cues (i.e. 75 degrees front/right, etc), but SBX has the least reverb (even at 100% it's less than GSX at standard room, and DH at DH-2) and thus the less processed sounding. I do think by today's standards GSX is a wonderful choice otherwise. I wouldn't pick Dolby Headphone 2 today, as good as the surround is. GSX is just as good and not as reverb heavy. Unless I'm on a strict budget which I definitely would spend the $45 for a Xonar U3 and a decent pair of cheap headphones like the Creative AUrvana Live.

As far as closed headphones, I don't have many examples and the ones I've currently reviewed while good, aren't as tonally balanced as open headphones that I recommend.

In any case, Razer VSS is not good, IMHO. At least nowhere near as good as the others.

If you JUST game on PC, I'd pick a GSX1000 and perhaps a Sennheiser Game Zero (having not heard it, but I trust them to have good closed headsets). If you like more immersion, just the GSX1000 and Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd gen is FANTASTIC.

As for people trhat say VSS is not neeed today because games have their own, I call bullsh*t. Every game I've played that has their own "headphone surround" was NOTHING like having your own solution. I swear, they all soun like expanded stereo, which is like a fraction of a fraction of how a proper vss solution sounds. People who say this, are in denial or haven't experienced a proper vss solution. It's night and day.

I think the only game I can think of that has a PROPER solution is overwatch which has Dolby Atmos I believe. I can't say as I have never played OW, but I remember hearing about it. Dolby Atmos is good. I just haven't had extensive testing done with it, and for some reason the license for it on my PC doesn't seem to do anything. (free trial).

I'd take a cheap Xonar U3 with an easy to drive closed headphone over a $1000 audiophile setup that doesn't have VSS. That's how much I believe these people saying you don't need VSS are fiull of crap. Once you go proper VSS for gaming, you'll never go back to simple stereo, unless you're just one of those people that can't adjust to the VSS sound.

Well....the rabbit hole has lead me to you all.

Here’s how I got here. I put together a new PC, and selected a SoundBlaster AE-5.

My rig wont recognize it in cold boots, ONLY on the subsequent reboot. Super annoying. No word from Creative Support so far. Blah. I might have it for sale shortly.

So in my quest for a solution, I stumbled across someone asking me why I wanted an internal sound card anyway, that an external DAC and Amp was the way to go.

For the next few hours I researched Schiit, Fiio, Sennheiser GSX, CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone, etc. etc.

I know a few things for sure:

1. I like positional audio in games.
2. I like/need closed back headphones.

With that in mind, for equipment I’m thinking of going with either the 598 closed back w/added mic paired with a Magni 3, or the Game Zero paired with a Magni 3.

From your descriptions, you like Dolby Headphone over SBX Pro/everything else, correct?

What about the Sennheiser GSX or Razer VSS?

Maybe I get a Sennheiser GSX to pair with my headphones and Magni 3?

Or grab a Modi Multibit, Magni 3, run the Razer VSS for positional audio and either pair of phones?

I’ve heard the 598s are great for VSS and positional audio...how do the Game Zero compare? 598 little light on bass? Game Zeros?

Any help is appreciated!
 
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May 22, 2018 at 7:22 AM Post #40,248 of 48,562
Nah, I think overall SBX is the best virtual surround processing readily available. GSX and Dolby Headphone both have a very slight edge in rear audio cues and off angled sound cues (i.e. 75 degrees front/right, etc), but SBX has the least reverb (even at 100% it's less than GSX at standard room, and DH at DH-2) and thus the less processed sounding. I do think by today's standards GSX is a wonderful choice otherwise. I wouldn't pick Dolby Headphone 2 today, as good as the surround is. GSX is just as good and not as reverb heavy. Unless I'm on a strict budget which I definitely would spend the $45 for a Xonar U3 and a decent pair of cheap headphones like the Creative AUrvana Live.

As far as closed headphones, I don't have many examples and the ones I've currently reviewed while good, aren't as tonally balanced as open headphones that I recommend.

In any case, Razer VSS is not good, IMHO. At least nowhere near as good as the others.

If you JUST game on PC, I'd pick a GSX1000 and perhaps a Sennheiser Game Zero (having not heard it, but I trust them to have good closed headsets). If you like more immersion, just the GSX1000 and Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd gen is FANTASTIC.

As for people trhat say VSS is not neeed today because games have their own, I call bullsh*t. Every game I've played that has their own "headphone surround" was NOTHING like having your own solution. I swear, they all soun like expanded stereo, which is like a fraction of a fraction of how a proper vss solution sounds. People who say this, are in denial or haven't experienced a proper vss solution. It's night and day.

I think the only game I can think of that has a PROPER solution is overwatch which has Dolby Atmos I believe. I can't say as I have never played OW, but I remember hearing about it. Dolby Atmos is good. I just haven't had extensive testing done with it, and for some reason the license for it on my PC doesn't seem to do anything. (free trial).

I'd take a cheap Xonar U3 with an easy to drive closed headphone over a $1000 audiophile setup that doesn't have VSS. That's how much I believe these people saying you don't need VSS are fiull of crap. Once you go proper VSS for gaming, you'll never go back to simple stereo, unless you're just one of those people that can't adjust to the VSS sound.

Thank you for the awesome reply! Yes, I’ve heard the same things about SBX, and CMSS-3D before that. So, what’s second? Sennheiser GSX? Reverb is what I’m looking to avoid, so it sounds like SBX is my best choice.

Moving on, have you had a chance to try the new Sennheiser GSP 600? They’re closed back, and it appears the newest thing from Sennheiser. They also, so I’ve been told, are a headphone designed as a gaming headphone from the ground up, and not based off of a 5XX like the Game One/Zero.

I’m thinking of running a Magni 3 with whatever pair of cans I get. I’ve also toyed with the idea of running a pair of closed 598s, paired with a modmic or something similar.

How would the 598s compare to the Game One/Zero or GSP 600 in the realm of immersion/VSS/positional audio?
 
May 22, 2018 at 7:46 AM Post #40,249 of 48,562
If it's not on the guide, I haven't heard it, is the assumption everyone should make.

The only 598s I've heard are the open ones. If you're gonna get an SBX device just get the Creative X7. You don't need a Magni at all. Besides Sennheiser headsets are not hard to drive whatsoever. Just a waste of money looking for anything more powerful than the X7 in that regard.
 
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May 22, 2018 at 7:54 AM Post #40,250 of 48,562
Yes, I’ve heard the same things about SBX, and CMSS-3D before that. So, what’s second? Sennheiser GSX? Reverb is what I’m looking to avoid, so it sounds like SBX is my best choice.

This, more than anything else, comes down to individual preference/physical attributes.

For me the GSX gives by far the best VSS I've tried so far (would call it 60-70% effective, with others varying 40-60%)

Am tipping my head/ear shape works best with the GSX's model/algorithms/filters/magic etc (or vice versa)

Many don't seem to have issues with any of the solutions - at that point does the preferences come into it.

I'd have a play with them all as setout in this thread to see which work best for you individually.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterra...nd_virtualization_on/?st=jaudn9g4&sh=5298eeb8
 
May 22, 2018 at 8:10 AM Post #40,252 of 48,562
This, more than anything else, comes down to individual preference/physical attributes.

For me the GSX gives by far the best VSS I've tried so far (would call it 60-70% effective, with others varying 40-60%)

Am tipping my head/ear shape works best with the GSX's model/algorithms/filters/magic etc (or vice versa)

Many don't seem to have issues with any of the solutions - at that point does the preferences come into it.

I'd have a play with them all as setout in this thread to see which work best for you individually.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterra...nd_virtualization_on/?st=jaudn9g4&sh=5298eeb8

Yes the GSX is the best to me too. Btw, on the GSX you can literally disable the reverb completely. It is so small, t fits into the palm of one's hand, the Z7 is a monster compared to all other solutions, one needs to want that. I have the GSP600 and love it as a gaming headset with the GSX1000.
 
May 22, 2018 at 8:13 AM Post #40,253 of 48,562
Just a quick shoutout to others like me who've mentioned a desire to try and show some support to MLE and give him a bit of encouragement/recognition in continuing to help us save time and money (or in a lot of cases cost us money :wink: )

I just noticed his Patreon is up
https://www.patreon.com/madlustenvy

His other social links are in his sig too.

Hopefully this post isn't against any forum rules - just wanted to get it out there because I'm sure he'd be the last to bring it up.
 
May 22, 2018 at 8:40 AM Post #40,254 of 48,562
Yes the GSX is the best to me too. Btw, on the GSX you can literally disable the reverb completely. It is so small, t fits into the palm of one's hand, the Z7 is a monster compared to all other solutions, one needs to want that. I have the GSP600 and love it as a gaming headset with the GSX1000.

AH yes, you can disable reverb, but then it's like DH-1, or SBX at a low surround number. Instead of it sounding like a room, it sounds like a headphone wih good positional cues. I know that sounds ideal, but I literally mean positional cues immediately around your head. You get rid of reverb, but then it's like all noises are coming from literally around the headphone as opposed to naturally sounding like it's around your body in a room shape. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I prefer something that sounds like it's around you as opposed to just around your head. DH-1, SBX at like 33%, GSX with no + symbols all do positional cues around the head just fine. SBX however does positional cues around you in a large space better than the others because it expands the soundstage around you without the echoy reverb that GSX, and DH do when you increase room size.

In short, I prefer sound cues that feel like they're coming from some distance from you as opposed to immediately next to you. It ruins immersion for me. SOME reverb is a necessary evil, I believe. Or better do it like SBX. Even at 100%, surround, there's almost nothing in the way of reverb. It's the most natural sounding of any VSS I've heard at length.
 
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May 22, 2018 at 8:45 AM Post #40,255 of 48,562
Speaking of, did the latest update fix you issue?

No. I THINK my issue may have started when I installed HeSuVi and equializer apo/virtual cable. Don't quote me on that.

I have since tried to delete those, but the problem persists. It's weird. I may have to reset my PC, though it's not so much of a headache to do that just yet.

I thought at one point it was tied to my wireless keyboard and how I use it for volume control, but it doesn't answer as to why I get half volume channels on specific source in the X7 software. Thety always go to 50% while the other channel is at 100, so I just dunno.

Even tried deleting the firmware, software, drivers of the X7. Still does it.
 
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May 22, 2018 at 8:50 AM Post #40,256 of 48,562
AH yes, you can disable reverb, but then it's like DH-1, or SBX at a low surround number.

Have you listened to the GSX? (not poking, asking - thought you said the other day you hadn't??)

I definitely get the "out of head" with the reverb on lowest.

The other option (front/rear/middle focus) also helps me a lot. (I have it forward)
 
May 22, 2018 at 9:29 AM Post #40,257 of 48,562
Have you listened to the GSX? (not poking, asking - thought you said the other day you hadn't??)

I definitely get the "out of head" with the reverb on lowest.

The other option (front/rear/middle focus) also helps me a lot. (I have it forward)
Same here, maybe MLE only tried it on Hesuvi. It could be different from the actual hardware device.
 
May 22, 2018 at 9:51 AM Post #40,258 of 48,562
Have you listened to the GSX? (not poking, asking - thought you said the other day you hadn't??)

I definitely get the "out of head" with the reverb on lowest.

The other option (front/rear/middle focus) also helps me a lot. (I have it forward)

Same here, maybe MLE only tried it on Hesuvi. It could be different from the actual hardware device.

I currently have a GSX1000 at home, lol (I'm wiriting a review/short one on it today/tomorrow). I definitely 100% prefer the way surround sounds with one + compared to the reverbless no + on the display. Like I said, I don't think it sounds natural without the reverb. Not like SBX. No + just reduces soundstage way too much.
 
May 22, 2018 at 10:07 AM Post #40,259 of 48,562
I currently have a GSX1000 at home, lol (I'm wiriting a review/short one on it today/tomorrow). I definitely 100% prefer the way surround sounds with one + compared to the reverbless no + on the display. Like I said, I don't think it sounds natural without the reverb. Not like SBX. No + just reduces soundstage way too much.


I'd certainly be interested in your review. If I can't get this AE-5 to work (heading over to the gigabyte forums now) I'm going to probably go with the GSX 1000, along with the GSP 600.

I'm curious how the GSP 600 compares to the Game One.
 
May 22, 2018 at 10:25 AM Post #40,260 of 48,562
Its closed vs open so that introduces way too much contrast in sounds presentation.

One good thing I can say about closed headphones is that when they have large soundstage like the MMX300, the virtual surround accuracy and cues may actually be BETTER than on open headphones due to no interference from external noises.

I can at the very least tell you the impressions on the GSX1000 are mainly positive. GSX surround itself is a definite positive.
 

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