Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite

[Silent One]

Quote:

This previous discussion is what I was getting at before.  I really would like to just take the statement as truth and move on, but real world experiences of the users seems to suggest that the WA22 and EML tubes have a compatibility issue that remains unresolved.  On the one hand we have the designer saying the pairing is fine, and on the other we have users complaining that their tubes keep failing prematurely.  I'm the sort of person who really wants to have some specific explanation on why or why not when it is asserted that a problem does or does not exist.  We've had some very knowledgeable and experienced users bring some information to light suggesting there might be an issue, but no detailed information to reinforce the assertion that the pairing is safe to use other than the simple statement that "it is." 
 
Also, with that, I'm done beating on the drum.  It'd be nice to hear, definitively, that the EML tubes are technically safe to operate in the amp, but I doubt anything I write here will affect the chances of getting such a confirmation.  If the tubes in question weren't nearly $300 a pop it wouldn't be such a big deal, but they should be expected to last out their normal operational lifespan for such a price and if it is the amps' fault for this not being the case I think owners should be very concerned about that.
 

+2
 
I'm with you on this position - claims vs real world experience. And yes, $300 a pop makes it a worthy and continued discussion. I'd be interested in learning more about the failures with the EML 5U4G in other amps for a bigger picture. Additionally, EML had production issues (twice in three years) and had to shut down production to revamp but I could never learn why. There could be something about the EML's make-up/production that could prove telling from other rectifiers.

 

[Xcalibur255]

Ah, yes, you make a very good point about Emission Labs having their own troubles.  All the more reason why I'd prefer to have the whole picture.  It could very well be true that the Woo amps have no fault in the matter and EML tubes simply have quality control issues.  Ironically in the beginning people were touting the quality of EML because Sophia was having so much trouble with their tubes too, and now the opinion seems to have reversed.
 
Still, if Glenn says the cap value and slow start design is a cause for concern I'm inclined to take what he says seriously.  If there really is a problem everybody, including Woo Audio, stands to benefit by implementing design improvements to address the concern.

 

[sillysally]

Quote:

When I did have my WooWA22 the EML 5U blew after about 5 months.  George from TubesUSA replaced it without issue (thanks again George!)  At the time George had build questions about the WA22 which I couldn't answer and he said he'd ring up Jack.  Voltage questions too.  Do other amps have the same issue's w/EML's?  I'm just glad I'm done with all that since I've got the Liquid Fire now.  

I just got a E-Mail about the WA6SE that I had sold to a Head-Fi about the same problem with the WA6SE blowing the rectifier in the pre October 2008 WA6SE. My WA6SE was built in 2009 after Jack had made the change. However after using my Liquid Fire compared to my WA5SE and WA6SE and how the start-up delay works in these amps the Liquid Fire seems to be fool proof. Once turned off but still hot there is a 45 sec delay before the full power will come on with the Liquid Fire, as were the WA6SE/WA5LE will come right on with no delay and that no delay imo is what is causing these tubes to have a much shorter life span.
 
Of-course there is something that you can do with the Woo amp and that is to wait until the Woo is at room temp before turning it on and then the delay should work. However in my neck of the woods there is sometimes a power loss of a second or so, causing the Woo to turn off and then back on with out any delay once more shorting the tube life. There is very little you can do about this unless you are very quick and turn off the power knob on the Woo before it comes back on. And yes after this happen once with my WA6SE I would jump out of my chair and turn off the Woo, but still I was without the Woo for over one hour.
 
Anyway I am with you about the Liquid Fire, they seem to have made this amp fool proof with no time limits on how long you have it on, as were the Woo you should turn off after 8 hours. Thanks for turning me on to the Liquid Fire before the price went up, I guess I got the last LF at the cheaper price.

 

 

[2359glenn]

 
I would say if you have a 5AR4/GZ34 rectifier tube to use it in these amps this tube can handle this better
and can handle a larger input capacitor 60uf. But I don't know what the sound change will be. The 5AR4 has
a lower internal voltage drop then a 5U4. That will change B+ voltage making it higher changing the operating
points in the output tubes. I don't know if this will make the sound better or worse you can only try one.
They do have SS replacements for a 5U4s that can handle this with no problem.  But with my experience
they sound like crap and they will substantially raise the B+ voltage by about 40 volts. Usually these are
used in guitar amps.

 

[musicman59]

Quote:

Was actually looking at this tube combo for WA5, assuming you meant the EMLs.  How does it sound?  I'm guessing pretty awesome. 
 


 

Yes, my tubes are EML. I bought the WA5-LE with all parts and tubes upgrades. Right now I am running it with the combo and TS 6F8G BG/RP and Woo adapters. It sounds great! Really deep bass, wide soundstage a lot of texture in the midrange and very clean and detailed highs. I also like it with the Sylvania 6SN7WGT BB/CT.
 
 

 

[Silent One]

 
EML Glass ~
 
I'm seven months in with the EML 5U4G Mesh plate. I sold the Sophia Princess to cover some of the expense. Will now begin looking for a quality backup rectifier at a decent price. Once found, I'll continue to make the EML Glass do what it do 'till it can't do it no mo'! 
 

 

[xinque]

Still trying to pick out tubes for a WA5.  Will be my first Woo amp upgrading from a Schiit Lyr.  Hoping to be wowed again considering how big this thread has grown. 

 
Will admit I'm a sucker for tube glow, is it true the 300Bs don't emit much?
 
I'm pretty much set on the EML 5U4G mesh, still picking out the power and driver tubes.  Looks like my choices will be between the EML and Sophia Electric for the 300B, unless someone has another tube to recommend?  The Takatsuki looks interesting but seems hard to find at a good price outside of Japan.

 

[PanamaRed]

Bendix 6106. I haven't rolled one in my WA22 yet, but the damn thing is lovely in my Decware CSP2+ and SE84B.
 
It's the chuck norris of rectifiers.
Quote:

 
EML Glass ~
 
I'm seven months in with the EML 5U4G Mesh plate. I sold the Sophia Princess to cover some of the expense. Will now begin looking for a quality backup rectifier at a decent price. Once found, I'll continue to make the EML Glass do what it do 'till it can't do it no mo'! 
 

 

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

Bendix 6106. I haven't rolled one in my WA22 yet, but the damn thing is lovely in my Decware CSP2+ and SE84B.
 
It's the chuck norris of rectifiers.


 

Bendix 6106, the original rec or rolled-in these two amps? If the latter, what did you have in prior?
 

 

[sillysally]

Quote:

Still trying to pick out tubes for a WA5.  Will be my first Woo amp upgrading from a Schiit Lyr.  Hoping to be wowed again considering how big this thread has grown. 

 
Will admit I'm a sucker for tube glow, is it true the 300Bs don't emit much?
 
I'm pretty much set on the EML 5U4G mesh, still picking out the power and driver tubes.  Looks like my choices will be between the EML and Sophia Electric for the 300B, unless someone has another tube to recommend?  The Takatsuki looks interesting but seems hard to find at a good price outside of Japan.

Yes for my WA5LE there is next to no glow with my WE300B's
btw, not only did I get the parts upgrade and Teflon sockets but I also got a Alps RK50 pot.
 
I also hear really deep and solid bass, wide/ fairly deep/ good 3d like sound-stage/deep/3D like, very clean and detailed highs, the mids (low to high) are really where the magic happens because of the range of my mids. The mids seem to also clarify the highs and low blending them with the mids with no distortion, and that is also where the depth comes from.
 

I am posting two pictures, one with my WE300B's and TSRP's (EML5U4G in PSU) the other shows the parts upgrade and the Alps RK50 pot. However the parts upgrade has changed, not quite as extensive and  different V-caps.
On a side note, the WA5LE was having problems with tubes, jamato8 suggested to Jack what he felt Jack should change (as I understand this story). Anyway what you see in the picture in this post is what jamato8 suggested.
 

 

 

[Clayton SF]

^ I have to say that the Alps RK50 pot looks its weight in gold. It is an elegant piece. I actually asked Jack to install it in my WA2 and he said that he couldn't use that pot because it is too big to fit in the WA2 chassis.
 
I remember reading about how you obtained those Western Electric 300Bs. Do you still keep in contact with those guys?

 

[xinque]

What was the tube problem exactly, and did Jack end up changing the design in the current production?
 
Somewhat worried about getting an amp with such expensive tubes after reading what happened to dannie01.  In the summer it's not uncommon for the power to go out and come back on when everyone's using their AC and the power grid can't handle it.  Am I supposed to be racing for the power switch when this happens and turn off the amp so it doesn't blow?  And then wait for the tubes to cool down again before turning it back on? 
 
Quote:

On a side note, the WA5LE was having problems with tubes, jamato8 suggested to Jack what he felt Jack should change (as I understand this story). Anyway what you see in the picture in this post is what jamato8 suggested.

 

 

[dannie01]

 
Quote:

Yes the one without the reading is the bad one the other one is still good. The ECC32s i suppose are still lighting up I hadn't gone back far enough to see what the problem with these were. I guess they just started to sound bad?? 
Well this isn't as bad you just have to buy one EML and not two
 

Thank you, Glenn.
 
 
 
Quote:

 
I would say if you have a 5AR4/GZ34 rectifier tube to use it in these amps this tube can handle this better
and can handle a larger input capacitor 60uf. But I don't know what the sound change will be. The 5AR4 has
a lower internal voltage drop then a 5U4. That will change B+ voltage making it higher changing the operating
points in the output tubes. I don't know if this will make the sound better or worse you can only try one.
They do have SS replacements for a 5U4s that can handle this with no problem.  But with my experience
they sound like crap and they will substantially raise the B+ voltage by about 40 volts. Usually these are
used in guitar amps.

And what about a 5Z3, I learn that the 5Z3 in same specification and the 5U4G can be replaced with adapter, is that correct?

 

[musicman59]

Quote:

Still trying to pick out tubes for a WA5.  Will be my first Woo amp upgrading from a Schiit Lyr.  Hoping to be wowed again considering how big this thread has grown. 

 
Will admit I'm a sucker for tube glow, is it true the 300Bs don't emit much?
 
I'm pretty much set on the EML 5U4G mesh, still picking out the power and driver tubes.  Looks like my choices will be between the EML and Sophia Electric for the 300B, unless someone has another tube to recommend?  The Takatsuki looks interesting but seems hard to find at a good price outside of Japan.

Not considering the WE due to availability and price I would say the EML 300B Mesh or the EAT 300B for power tubes. The driver will depend on your taste of sound. I have been able to collect to some of what I consider good ones and with different flavors.
Here is my collection: Mullard ECC32, Brimar CV1988 BG/BB, RCA 6922 RB, Sylvania 6SN7WGT BB/TC, Fivre 6SN7GT, TS 6SN7GT BG/RP, RCA 6SN7GT GG, KenRad 6SN7GT BG, TS 6F8G BG/RP & Reythreon 6F8G BG.
 

 

[jc9394]

Quote:

 
I would say if you have a 5AR4/GZ34 rectifier tube to use it in these amps this tube can handle this better
and can handle a larger input capacitor 60uf. But I don't know what the sound change will be. The 5AR4 has
a lower internal voltage drop then a 5U4. That will change B+ voltage making it higher changing the operating
points in the output tubes. I don't know if this will make the sound better or worse you can only try one.
They do have SS replacements for a 5U4s that can handle this with no problem.  But with my experience
they sound like crap and they will substantially raise the B+ voltage by about 40 volts. Usually these are
used in guitar amps.

I have a metal base Mullard GZ34 and it sound as good as the EML I have but the amp runs much hotter.  I have bring this up to Jack and did said it is fine and try to keep the listening session under 8 hours.