Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite
Dec 8, 2014 at 7:25 AM Post #31,771 of 42,298
Rolled in the KR 300 Ballon's, wow ! what a difference to the last time I heard them, I am thinking a combination of factors, amp running time, different rectifiers and driver tubes.
 
The sound out thing is they have a nice lush mid range but a really good soundstage and natural sense of air about them, more detail and better tonal balance than the SERP's. Subjectively I would choose these over the SERP's. Loving the sound of them with he Cowboy Junkies, The Trinity Sessions 
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Dec 8, 2014 at 7:26 AM Post #31,772 of 42,298
Hi Tony,
I've had experience with both my WA5 (upgrade parts and tubes), WA234 (both with stock and my tubes) as well as a breif listen to a BHSE, SR009 combo.
Comparing the stock 234 with my maxed 5, the main improvements were mainly just a widening of the soundstage and more precision with imaging. Background noise, which I thought was already low on the 5, was now completely gone. The dynamics were noticeably better, loud passages shook your ears and silent passages had an inky deep blackness to them. The improvement was enough for me to concider the upgrade after only a quick 10 minute listen, if I had to quantify it I'd say about 10%. It may not seem like much but it was as much of a jump as going from stock tubes on the WA5 to a full upgrade complement or going from the GS-X to the WA5.
If you've heard the WA5, it's tonality and wide enveloping soundstage carry over seamlessly to the 234. With the WA5 I would switch between either the KR300B's or Royal Princess tubes depending on if I wanted more speed or more lushness. With the 234 the KR's retained all their speed but weren't dry in the mids it was as full and lush as the princesses were in the WA5.
Going in to audition the 234 with my tubes over stock sealed the coffin on the WA5. The WA5 improves a lot with tube upgrades but you still get the characteristics of the amp imposed on the tubes. With the 234 tube rolling can be summed up with a single word 'transparent'. You hear each change the tubes bring to the amp, I spent most of the time listening to the 234 with KR300b balloons, syl bad boys and full music 274b/+/n rectifiers. The amp was on high plate output. Driving the abyss on high plate was an easy task, the volume dial never made it past 10 o'clock and it only made it past 9 on very quiet pieces. Going from the stock tubes on the WA5 to better ones is a big leap, putting that same tube complement in the WA234 takes the tubes to a whole other level. With the Above tubes in the WA5 I really enjoyed the pacing, bass weight and immediacy of the sound. I thought that was the pinnacle. Switching to the 234 it showed what it was compromising, it had all the speed, weight and immediacy that was there in the 5. But it bought just an organic sense of musicality to it, with the 234 you get spade loads of detail over the 5, but that's not what you end up listening to. It's still so musical and involving that you get lost in the music as a whole. Sure you can still go into it and focus on the details but getting lost and enjoying it is soo much easier.
Another thing that is apparent is how revealing if other components the 234 is, I know the cable debate is a touchy subject, but going between one of the new cables they had to test at A2A, cardas clear light and cardas clear interconnects. The differences became readily apparent, tonality and sibilants being the main points the 234 would reveal between cables. I actually was hoping there wouldn't be a difference between the clear and clear light since they're essentially the same apart from the air tubes in the clear. But it was ever so less sibilant and the tonality was fuller and warmer, easier to get lost in and enjoy.
Comparing the SR009, BHSE and Abyss, 234 combo. The SR009 does everything right... But only on a technical note, comparatively it's very mechanical and it looses it's sense of involvment and enjoyment. That organic sound just isn't there, you listen to the music as each individual part instead of a cohesive whole. That's just not the type if listening I enjoy, so my views on it may be bias.
Just to add in purchasing the 234 was not easy financially for me, still being an apprentice, having a mortgage and planning a decent sized trip along with all the other associated costs with the WA234. I had to prioritise my spending to afford it, it wasn't just walk in, drop cash and walk out. Making the decision however was that easy, for me the improvements were worth every cent. I just had to find a way to gather the funds.
I will note I haven't listened to either the 234 or WA5 in about 2-3 weeks so it's all from mort at this point so I may be romanticising it a bit. But if you have any specific questions I'll do my best to answer them
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Wow fantastic post Fririce0003.  
 
Thank you from my side too as I am in a bid dilema and self debate at the moment with either a fully maxed WA5 with a WEE to drive my 009's or to keep my order placement (made September gone) intact for the BHSE and GS-X Mk2 !  I have also been looking at the 234's though the high cost has put me off somewhat.  
 
From your posting though I think I should be seriously considering them either connected to the WEE to keep my 009's or ditch the 009's and use top end dynamics !    
 
Have you tried the Senn HD800's with the 234's ? 
 
Dec 8, 2014 at 7:35 AM Post #31,773 of 42,298
 
You are correct I have a QBD76 HDSD, I played with it for a while with the 234's, I have just sold it as the updated model with Hugo tech in it will no doubt be launched at the CES so wanted to maximise resale value now.
 
It is a very good DAC, I notice you have one also, are you enjoying it?
 
Edit - the system has come along very well, been messing around with different combinations of valves, cables and power. Got a way to go yet with some stuff but very happy with the result so far. I have some good Shunyata gear on its way. The DaVinci received a new firmware file sent by Larry Ho himself, that optimised the digital buyers apparently, whatever it was, it stripped away another veil to the music and lifted its performance. Was nice to know LH are still in the business of looking after their customers as they are copping a pasting over on the Geek forums.

Hi isquirrel,
Yes I enjoy the QBD76 very much and I love the look of it too (also important to me).   I have two, one with my full Choral system in Spain (see my avatar) linked to my Blu CD Transporter and the other one in the UK with my headphone systems linked to my MacBook Pro running Audivana software.   Linked to the Blu it comes into its own... the huge upsampling from 44kHz redbook to 176kHz makes a huge difference to the sound.  I prefer this to high res HD files as it gets closer to analogue sources !   Also connected to the Blu you can use the older QBD76's (going for great prices at the moment on SH market) i.e. you don't need the HD or HDSD models to get the Blu benefit ! 
 
Dec 8, 2014 at 7:40 AM Post #31,774 of 42,298
Collecting 300B's is as bad as a good crack addiction, I can't get enough, need to get a Genie
 

 
Dec 8, 2014 at 8:09 AM Post #31,775 of 42,298
  Hi isquirrel,
Yes I enjoy the QBD76 very much and I love the look of it too (also important to me).   I have two, one with my full Choral system in Spain (see my avatar) linked to my Blu CD Transporter and the other one in the UK with my headphone systems linked to my MacBook Pro running Audivana software.   Linked to the Blu it comes into its own... the huge upsampling from 44kHz redbook to 176kHz makes a huge difference to the sound.  I prefer this to high res HD files as it gets closer to analogue sources !   Also connected to the Blu you can use the older QBD76's (going for great prices at the moment on SH market) i.e. you don't need the HD or HDSD models to get the Blu benefit ! 

 
I have seen your system and like it very much, the Chord gear is presented so well. I have heard good things about the Blu. Our dollar is going South so quickly I am beginning to think its linked to the Peso. Don't think I will be buying any more gear for a while.
 
Dec 8, 2014 at 8:15 AM Post #31,776 of 42,298
Wow fantastic post Fririce0003.  

Thank you from my side too as I am in a bid dilema and self debate at the moment with either a fully maxed WA5 with a WEE to drive my 009's or to keep my order placement (made September gone) intact for the BHSE and GS-X Mk2 !  I have also been looking at the 234's though the high cost has put me off somewhat.  

From your posting though I think I should be seriously considering them either connected to the WEE to keep my 009's or ditch the 009's and use top end dynamics !    

Have you tried the Senn HD800's with the 234's ? 


Unfortunately I sold the HD800's a couple months after getting the abyss, that and my 234's still being built :S
The time I spent with the 234 was at addicted to audio for about 5 or so hours of listening through my tubes and the abyss.
The SR009/BHSE was at an audio show, but the abyss/234 rig was right next to it so you could go between the two for a direct comparison.
Having said that, if I were just after unparalleled detail it'd be the BHSE/009 combo, you'll hear everything in the mix and up the chain... But that's what you'll be listening to, the recording and equipment, not the music. That's how it was for me at least. Not saying that it's a bad combo, it's certainly an endgame head fi rig, but it's very different from the 234. It's like comparing the HD800 and PS1000. I've owned both at the same time and would say neither is better, just different in that they complement each other. Again much like the JH Audio Roxanne and Noble K10.
It's a tough decision between the WA234 and WA5, if it weren't such a price gap you'd go the 234 no questions asked. Even with stock tubes the improvement is immediately apparent. But at nearly 4 times the price you really should listen to the two first to see if the quantified improvement is worth the financial outlay.
Regarding the GS-X if you're going to go the dynamic route and go either the 234 or 5 I'd opt out of the purchase or just re sell. The GS-X is very good but with the abyss at least I didn't use the headphone out because the WA5 with upgraded tubes just improved almost every aspect. Luckily the main reason I purchased it was to use as a preamp for my speaker system and to use with the abyss for short sessions where I wouldn't be listening long enough for the tubes to heat up.
Apart from the sonic improvement, another plus to the 234 is that you can get a pre amp circuit and either a xlr or RCA loop out added. So it can act as a headphone amp, pre amp and speaker amp.
Lastly I'd say even if you did go the WA5 or 234 it'd be worth keeping the 009's and using the WEE, that way later down the track if funds allow you can always get the BHSE then and have best of musicality (234) and detail (BHSE). The cost of the WEE would likely still be less than the loss on selling the SR009.
Hope that helped a bit :)
 
Dec 8, 2014 at 8:33 AM Post #31,777 of 42,298
Can I use KT77 tubes in WooAudio WES amp? If I can, then I can make it just by changing the tubes or some tuning had to be done to the amp?
I already bought quad of KT77 and now I have a doubts and KT77 isn't in the WooAudio list of compatible tubes for WES: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
I can't find the clear answer at forums too...
 
Dec 11, 2014 at 4:48 PM Post #31,779 of 42,298
  The lightning with the 009 fully balanced through my gungnir/gcph and my modded wa22 preamp is the best system I've ever heard, and I have still not fully recovered from it!(...)

 
Just a quick update with an apology, I meant the LL2 not the original LL which I haven't heard -- and reportedly doesn't sound as good. The only other electrostatic amp I've tried is the WEE, and it sounds good. But with the 009 the LL2 was on a whole 'nother level.
 
Dec 11, 2014 at 7:10 PM Post #31,780 of 42,298
I have both.
WA5-LE maxxed out with WE 300B matched set nos build date 26/1956. Paired with HD-800 and HE-6
Stax-727 paired with Stax-009
 
The WA5-LE with the very rare combo of tubes is something very special, the music just flows beautifully. However I have this Amp and tubes in storage, because I want to keep these rare tubes as close to nos. 
The STAX combo I have along with my Realizer  A8 and speaker measurement done at AIX sound studio, gives me a great 5 CH or 7 CH like sound system for Blu Ray movies.  
The nice thing with the STAX-727 for movies, is that I get the base impact that I don't think is there with the BHSE.
 
My point is it depends on what you are going to be using and pairing these amps with. 
 
ss
 
Dec 11, 2014 at 11:01 PM Post #31,781 of 42,298
So I ordered a WA2 during the recent promotion, and I got it last Friday. Listened to it that night and Saturday afternoon, it was great. I went out of town for work Saturday night and didn't get home until late last night, so after I got home today I was excited to get some listening time in. To my surprise, it looks like one of the tubes has failed. Less than 7 hours of listening! I've already sent an email to WA about it, hopefully they can help me out. I guess in the meantime I might as well start considering some new tubes -- any suggestions?
 
By coincidence, one of the sticks of RAM (DDR4!) in my desktop failed right before I went on the trip too. Things are just piling up!
 
 
[As soon as I finished posting here, I got a reply from Jack. Says they will send me a replacement tomorrow. Literally less than 10 minutes after sending the email to them, and it's already 11pm on that side of the country!]
 

 
A picture of my main setup while I'm at it. 

 
Dec 12, 2014 at 2:36 AM Post #31,782 of 42,298
  Can I use KT77 tubes in WooAudio WES amp? If I can, then I can make it just by changing the tubes or some tuning had to be done to the amp?
I already bought quad of KT77 and now I have a doubts and KT77 isn't in the WooAudio list of compatible tubes for WES: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
I can't find the clear answer at forums too...

 
Asked russian master (he has repaired and modded my WES some time ago) about using KT77 with WES, he said it's OK to use them, but look after their brightness and heat to be on the safe side... So have about 10 hours of burn-in (two evenings) for now on my Genalex Gold Lion KT77, they working without any troubles so far, IMO sound is already much better than with Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z (KT77 sound more "juicy", more dynamic, have a deeper sounstage, they also have more bass), and in comparison by memory better than with Psvane EL34PH ("musical", but has poor dynamic and kinda a bit less neutral than I like) and even better than Shuguang Treasure KT88-Z (which IMO was the best among the ones I tried before I got Genalex KT77... KT88-Z is sound "big", have great dynamic, but they sound a bit simple on "delicate" music)... Still for now Genalex KT77 is sound a bit "muddy", but the sound become clearer with every hour of burning-in, so expect the "mud" go away entirely after tubes fully burn-in, so for now very happy with my purchase 
redface.gif
 
 
Dec 12, 2014 at 7:10 AM Post #31,783 of 42,298
  So I ordered a WA2 during the recent promotion, and I got it last Friday. Listened to it that night and Saturday afternoon, it was great. I went out of town for work Saturday night and didn't get home until late last night, so after I got home today I was excited to get some listening time in. To my surprise, it looks like one of the tubes has failed. Less than 7 hours of listening! I've already sent an email to WA about it, hopefully they can help me out. I guess in the meantime I might as well start considering some new tubes -- any suggestions?
 
By coincidence, one of the sticks of RAM (DDR4!) in my desktop failed right before I went on the trip too. Things are just piling up!
 
 
[As soon as I finished posting here, I got a reply from Jack. Says they will send me a replacement tomorrow. Literally less than 10 minutes after sending the email to them, and it's already 11pm on that side of the country!]
 

 
A picture of my main setup while I'm at it. 

Nice setup i have the same setup with the Senns HD800 and Conductor sounds great my best tubes are TS5998 as power tubes Bugle Boys 6DJ8 as drivers and RFT EZ80 as rectifiers                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              
 
                                                                 
 
Dec 12, 2014 at 11:09 AM Post #31,784 of 42,298
  I have both.
WA5-LE maxxed out with WE 300B matched set nos build date 26/1956. Paired with HD-800 and HE-6
Stax-727 paired with Stax-009
 
The WA5-LE with the very rare combo of tubes is something very special, the music just flows beautifully. However I have this Amp and tubes in storage, because I want to keep these rare tubes as close to nos. 
The STAX combo I have along with my Realizer  A8 and speaker measurement done at AIX sound studio, gives me a great 5 CH or 7 CH like sound system for Blu Ray movies.  
The nice thing with the STAX-727 for movies, is that I get the base impact that I don't think is there with the BHSE.
 
My point is it depends on what you are going to be using and pairing these amps with. 
 
ss

I agree with you about the SR009/BHSE. I don't know if it was the tubes complement on the BHSE but the 2 times I have listened to that combo at Justin's table it was on the lean side for my taste.
 
Moon Audio Stay updated on Moon Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
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Dec 12, 2014 at 7:45 PM Post #31,785 of 42,298
   
I only have less than 100 hours on the SERPs, so they aren't fully broken in yet - so please take these comments with a BIG grain of salt - they might change after more hours on the SERPs.
 
The Psvane WE300Bs have good extension up and down, but the SERPs (and the EATs) have better. The SERPs definitely step the bass up a notch, but then it was quite good with the Psvane WE274B rectifiers anyway.
 
What the SERPs don't seem to have as much of (at least not yet at less than 100 hours) is that sweet mid range magic that can make vocals, and female vocals in particular, so haunting and wondrous. Artists like Loreena McKennit / Norah Jones / Alison Krauss ... etc can blow you clean away with the Psvane 300Bs. The SERPs haven't managed to reach those same heights yet (but are still very good).
 
I have a high quality recording of the classic 'Fever' by Peggy Lee - with the Psvane 300Bs the vocals come through on the modded HE6 in way that really hits all the right spots. Lovely, lovely stuff that melts me right into my comfy chair. The SERPs can't quite do that. Typing this makes me want to pull the SERPs out and whack the Psvanes back in for another hit of those vocals.
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These are very, very good sounding tubes and I am happy to recommend them - just be aware that the burn in process is a lengthy PITA - similar to the WE274B replicas.
 
EDIT - forgot to add - tonally not very different to the SERPs, perhaps not quite as warm/dark as the SERPs, but not a huge difference to my ears. To me the SERPs have better extension in the top and bottom ends, while the replicas have a taste of that classic WE300B mid-range magic that tube heads rave about.

 
I have put another 50+ hours onto the SERPs (for a total in the 100-150 range), and they appear to have stabilised - I can't detect any further changes.
 
What a great tube. I was initially thinking I might have made a poor investment compared to the Psvane 300B replica. Not anymore - the SERPs have matured into something very special indeed.
 
Compared to the Psvane WE300B replica the SERPs are:
  1. A touch darker
  2. More extended, particularly in the bass
  3. Slightly more detailed
 
The Psvane is still more engaging in the vocals, but only just. This has been the biggest change I have noticed during the burn in - the SERP mid range now has that magic that can draw you into the music with the vocals that it was missing before.
 
Overall, these tubes are very, very similar. Both are superb sounding and I would be happy with either set in my WA5. Put a gun to my head and force me to choose just one set and it would be the SERPs. They do several things better than the replicas, and in the critical area of vocals they come so very close to the engaging musicality of the WE300B replicas that I could easily make the choice.
 
A much harder question to answer would be "does the SERP justify the $300 price difference?" (roughly $1200 vs $900 per pair). Given how close these tubes are in performance - possibly not - but at this level it is all about that last 5%. If we weren't mildly obsessive audiophile nutters we wouldn't own a WA5 in the first place
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If your budget can make it to the SERPs I would go for it, if not then the Psvane WE300B replicas are going to give you almost the same level of performance, plus a slightly superior mid range experience. Either are going to make for a happy audiophile.
 
I would not recommend purchasing one set if you already own the other - these tubes overlap so much that it might not be a good use of your funds.
 
EDIT - some 300B porn to go with the verbiage:

 

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