[billerb1]

Hi Tony,
I've had experience with both my WA5 (upgrade parts and tubes), WA234 (both with stock and my tubes) as well as a breif listen to a BHSE, SR009 combo.
Comparing the stock 234 with my maxed 5, the main improvements were mainly just a widening of the soundstage and more precision with imaging. Background noise, which I thought was already low on the 5, was now completely gone. The dynamics were noticeably better, loud passages shook your ears and silent passages had an inky deep blackness to them. The improvement was enough for me to concider the upgrade after only a quick 10 minute listen, if I had to quantify it I'd say about 10%. It may not seem like much but it was as much of a jump as going from stock tubes on the WA5 to a full upgrade complement or going from the GS-X to the WA5.
If you've heard the WA5, it's tonality and wide enveloping soundstage carry over seamlessly to the 234. With the WA5 I would switch between either the KR300B's or Royal Princess tubes depending on if I wanted more speed or more lushness. With the 234 the KR's retained all their speed but weren't dry in the mids it was as full and lush as the princesses were in the WA5.
Going in to audition the 234 with my tubes over stock sealed the coffin on the WA5. The WA5 improves a lot with tube upgrades but you still get the characteristics of the amp imposed on the tubes. With the 234 tube rolling can be summed up with a single word 'transparent'. You hear each change the tubes bring to the amp, I spent most of the time listening to the 234 with KR300b balloons, syl bad boys and full music 274b/+/n rectifiers. The amp was on high plate output. Driving the abyss on high plate was an easy task, the volume dial never made it past 10 o'clock and it only made it past 9 on very quiet pieces. Going from the stock tubes on the WA5 to better ones is a big leap, putting that same tube complement in the WA234 takes the tubes to a whole other level. With the Above tubes in the WA5 I really enjoyed the pacing, bass weight and immediacy of the sound. I thought that was the pinnacle. Switching to the 234 it showed what it was compromising, it had all the speed, weight and immediacy that was there in the 5. But it bought just an organic sense of musicality to it, with the 234 you get spade loads of detail over the 5, but that's not what you end up listening to. It's still so musical and involving that you get lost in the music as a whole. Sure you can still go into it and focus on the details but getting lost and enjoying it is soo much easier.
Another thing that is apparent is how revealing if other components the 234 is, I know the cable debate is a touchy subject, but going between one of the new cables they had to test at A2A, cardas clear light and cardas clear interconnects. The differences became readily apparent, tonality and sibilants being the main points the 234 would reveal between cables. I actually was hoping there wouldn't be a difference between the clear and clear light since they're essentially the same apart from the air tubes in the clear. But it was ever so less sibilant and the tonality was fuller and warmer, easier to get lost in and enjoy.
Comparing the SR009, BHSE and Abyss, 234 combo. The SR009 does everything right... But only on a technical note, comparatively it's very mechanical and it looses it's sense of involvment and enjoyment. That organic sound just isn't there, you listen to the music as each individual part instead of a cohesive whole. That's just not the type if listening I enjoy, so my views on it may be bias.
Just to add in purchasing the 234 was not easy financially for me, still being an apprentice, having a mortgage and planning a decent sized trip along with all the other associated costs with the WA234. I had to prioritise my spending to afford it, it wasn't just walk in, drop cash and walk out. Making the decision however was that easy, for me the improvements were worth every cent. I just had to find a way to gather the funds.
I will note I haven't listened to either the 234 or WA5 in about 2-3 weeks so it's all from mort at this point so I may be romanticising it a bit. But if you have any specific questions I'll do my best to answer them

Fririce0003, cudos on a great write-up.  Much enjoyed.

 

[Fririce0003]

Wow - thank you so very much for such a detailed response.

Really, really appreciate that - except for the fact that it makes me want the Wa234 even more than I did before :wink_face:

I am 100% in agreement with you on the musical vs mechanical debate - I don't care much for how technically brilliant something is - it's all about the sound and how engaging it is.

I'm burning in a set of SERPs in my (stock) WA5 right now - and loving it. Very musical and engaging.

I'm just glad I could help, I apologise for tempting your wallet though
You'll be very happy with the SERP, very fluid and musical tube.
Though one thing I've noticed about opting for musical vs mechanical is you spend a lot more time listening without realising how much time has passed... There's been so many times on weekends I'm only alerted to the time by birds chirping to signal morning has arrived, there is no "one more song". I've even had to forgo headphones and I back to speakers during the week because there's been a few too many times I've had to go to work without sleep. Not the best when your working on a lift 50 floors up on live electrical wires and such :S

 

[isquirrel]

   
Wow - thank you so very much for such a detailed response.
 
Really, really appreciate that - except for the fact that it makes me want the Wa234 even more than I did before 

 
I am 100% in agreement with you on the musical vs mechanical debate - I don't care much for how technically brilliant something is - it's all about the sound and how engaging it is.
 
I'm burning in a set of SERPs in my (stock) WA5 right now - and loving it. Very musical and engaging.

Great I am glad Fririce0003 came in with his experiences. I am finding that I prefer the SERP's over the KR's, I find them a little more detailed but far richer tonally. Thanks for the input on burn in, that makes perfect sense now.
 
Is what I love about this community, always learning something new from people so willing to share.

 

[isquirrel]

Hi Tony,
I've had experience with both my WA5 (upgrade parts and tubes), WA234 (both with stock and my tubes) as well as a breif listen to a BHSE, SR009 combo.
Comparing the stock 234 with my maxed 5, the main improvements were mainly just a widening of the soundstage and more precision with imaging. Background noise, which I thought was already low on the 5, was now completely gone. The dynamics were noticeably better, loud passages shook your ears and silent passages had an inky deep blackness to them. The improvement was enough for me to concider the upgrade after only a quick 10 minute listen, if I had to quantify it I'd say about 10%. It may not seem like much but it was as much of a jump as going from stock tubes on the WA5 to a full upgrade complement or going from the GS-X to the WA5.
If you've heard the WA5, it's tonality and wide enveloping soundstage carry over seamlessly to the 234. With the WA5 I would switch between either the KR300B's or Royal Princess tubes depending on if I wanted more speed or more lushness. With the 234 the KR's retained all their speed but weren't dry in the mids it was as full and lush as the princesses were in the WA5.
Going in to audition the 234 with my tubes over stock sealed the coffin on the WA5. The WA5 improves a lot with tube upgrades but you still get the characteristics of the amp imposed on the tubes. With the 234 tube rolling can be summed up with a single word 'transparent'. You hear each change the tubes bring to the amp, I spent most of the time listening to the 234 with KR300b balloons, syl bad boys and full music 274b/+/n rectifiers. The amp was on high plate output. Driving the abyss on high plate was an easy task, the volume dial never made it past 10 o'clock and it only made it past 9 on very quiet pieces. Going from the stock tubes on the WA5 to better ones is a big leap, putting that same tube complement in the WA234 takes the tubes to a whole other level. With the Above tubes in the WA5 I really enjoyed the pacing, bass weight and immediacy of the sound. I thought that was the pinnacle. Switching to the 234 it showed what it was compromising, it had all the speed, weight and immediacy that was there in the 5. But it bought just an organic sense of musicality to it, with the 234 you get spade loads of detail over the 5, but that's not what you end up listening to. It's still so musical and involving that you get lost in the music as a whole. Sure you can still go into it and focus on the details but getting lost and enjoying it is soo much easier.
Another thing that is apparent is how revealing if other components the 234 is, I know the cable debate is a touchy subject, but going between one of the new cables they had to test at A2A, cardas clear light and cardas clear interconnects. The differences became readily apparent, tonality and sibilants being the main points the 234 would reveal between cables. I actually was hoping there wouldn't be a difference between the clear and clear light since they're essentially the same apart from the air tubes in the clear. But it was ever so less sibilant and the tonality was fuller and warmer, easier to get lost in and enjoy.
Comparing the SR009, BHSE and Abyss, 234 combo. The SR009 does everything right... But only on a technical note, comparatively it's very mechanical and it looses it's sense of involvment and enjoyment. That organic sound just isn't there, you listen to the music as each individual part instead of a cohesive whole. That's just not the type if listening I enjoy, so my views on it may be bias.
Just to add in purchasing the 234 was not easy financially for me, still being an apprentice, having a mortgage and planning a decent sized trip along with all the other associated costs with the WA234. I had to prioritise my spending to afford it, it wasn't just walk in, drop cash and walk out. Making the decision however was that easy, for me the improvements were worth every cent. I just had to find a way to gather the funds.
I will note I haven't listened to either the 234 or WA5 in about 2-3 weeks so it's all from mort at this point so I may be romanticising it a bit. But if you have any specific questions I'll do my best to answer them

Good on you mate ! Thanks for that 

 

[TonyNewman]

I'm just glad I could help, I apologise for tempting your wallet though
You'll be very happy with the SERP, very fluid and musical tube.
Though one thing I've noticed about opting for musical vs mechanical is you spend a lot more time listening without realising how much time has passed... There's been so many times on weekends I'm only alerted to the time by birds chirping to signal morning has arrived, there is no "one more song". I've even had to forgo headphones and I back to speakers during the week because there's been a few too many times I've had to go to work without sleep. Not the best when your working on a lift 50 floors up on live electrical wires and such :S

Totally get that. Time just loses all meaning sometimes as you get drawn into the music.
 
I found the Psvane replica WE300Bs have a similar effect also. They do capture something of the mid-range magic of the originals (how much I'm not sure - I have never heard a vintage WE300B). Put on some vocal-centric tracks, particularly female vocals, and the result is pure magic. I can eat that up for hours and hours...

 

[Fririce0003]

Totally get that. Time just loses all meaning sometimes as you get drawn into the music.

I found the Psvane replica WE300Bs have a similar effect also. They do capture something of the mid-range magic of the originals (how much I'm not sure - I have never heard a vintage WE300B). Put on some vocal-centric tracks, particularly female vocals, and the result is pure magic. I can eat that up for hours and hours... :tongue_smile:

The Psvane WE300B sounds like it'd be wonderful then, I listen to a fair bit of female vocal between electronic. Spewing I didn't end up giving them a go, was either going to try them or EML 300BXLS's. Ended up going for the EML, that sale fell through and I never got around to ordering in the Psvane's after that.

 

[TonyNewman]

The Psvane WE300B sounds like it'd be wonderful then, I listen to a fair bit of female vocal between electronic. Spewing I didn't end up giving them a go, was either going to try them or EML 300BXLS's. Ended up going for the EML, that sale fell through and I never got around to ordering in the Psvane's after that.

 
I like them quite a bit. Very noticeable how nice they are with vocal-centric tracks.
 
They do need the 200+ hour burn in process, similar to the Psvane replica WE274B. Not cheap either - around $850/900 USD. Very nice sounding tube.

 

[isquirrel]

   
I like them quite a bit. Very noticeable how nice they are with vocal-centric tracks.
 
They do need the 200+ hour burn in process, similar to the Psvane replica WE274B. Not cheap either - around $850/900 USD. Very nice sounding tube.

Good news because I like the Psvane 274B's how do they compare to the SERP 300B's? do they have a similar tonal quality, what is the bottom end performance like?

 

[TonyNewman]

 
Good news because I like the Psvane 274B's how do they compare to the SERP 300B's? do they have a similar tonal quality, what is the bottom end performance like?

 
I only have less than 100 hours on the SERPs, so they aren't fully broken in yet - so please take these comments with a BIG grain of salt - they might change after more hours on the SERPs.
 
The Psvane WE300Bs have good extension up and down, but the SERPs (and the EATs) have better. The SERPs definitely step the bass up a notch, but then it was quite good with the Psvane WE274B rectifiers anyway.
 
What the SERPs don't seem to have as much of (at least not yet at less than 100 hours) is that sweet mid range magic that can make vocals, and female vocals in particular, so haunting and wondrous. Artists like Loreena McKennit / Norah Jones / Alison Krauss ... etc can blow you clean away with the Psvane 300Bs. The SERPs haven't managed to reach those same heights yet (but are still very good).
 
I have a high quality recording of the classic 'Fever' by Peggy Lee - with the Psvane 300Bs the vocals come through on the modded HE6 in way that really hits all the right spots. Lovely, lovely stuff that melts me right into my comfy chair. The SERPs can't quite do that. Typing this makes me want to pull the SERPs out and whack the Psvanes back in for another hit of those vocals.

 
These are very, very good sounding tubes and I am happy to recommend them - just be aware that the burn in process is a lengthy PITA - similar to the WE274B replicas.
 
EDIT - forgot to add - tonally not very different to the SERPs, perhaps not quite as warm/dark as the SERPs, but not a huge difference to my ears. To me the SERPs have better extension in the top and bottom ends, while the replicas have a taste of that classic WE300B mid-range magic that tube heads rave about.

 

[isquirrel]

Thanks Tony,
 
Great detailed feedback, the sound you describe is exactly what I am after.
 
Seems top 4 300B's are the 
 
WE
Takatsuki's
Psvanes
SERP's
 
I am about to roll back in the KR Ballon's to give them another shot, haven't heard them with the Mullards or the Tung Sols yet.
 
Jack Woo was telling me that he gets the special top 2% of the Psvanes, might give him a call and see what I can organise. I thought that the export ones were all screened?
 
I feel like I am in burn in Hell ATM, it seems to be never ending 

 I read about a device called frybaby https://www.gcaudio.com/cgi-bin/store/showProduct.cgi?id=830 doesn't do valves though.

 

[Silent One]

 
Totally get that. Time just loses all meaning sometimes as you get drawn into the music.
 
I found the Psvane replica WE300Bs have a similar effect also. They do capture something of the mid-range magic of the originals (how much I'm not sure - I have never heard a vintage WE300B). Put on some vocal-centric tracks, particularly female vocals, and the result is pure magic. I can eat that up for hours and hours...

In my view, this is all "circuit dependent." I have sat down with original NOS WE300Bs for a few hours and Marvin Gaye's vocals were floating across

the listening room in my presence. As were Ella's and a delightful handful of others. 
 
Was listening to a pair of Shindo Laboratory Western Electric 300B Single-end monaural amps.

 

[TonyNewman]

  In my view, this is all "circuit dependent." I have sat down with original NOS WE300Bs for a few hours and Marvin Gaye's vocals were floating across

the listening room in my presence. As were Ella's and a delightful handful of others. 
 
Was listening to a pair of Shindo Laboratory Western Electric 300B Single-end monaural amps.

 
Very true. My WA5 is the only 300B amp I have, so that is the only tool I possess to make comparisons on. But I take your point - it is my ears and my gear - change those and you could get a different result.

 

[TonyNewman]

  Thanks Tony,
 
Great detailed feedback, the sound you describe is exactly what I am after.
 
Seems top 4 300B's are the 
 
WE
Takatsuki's
Psvanes
SERP's
 

 
I would try and find room for the EML 300B mesh somewhere in my list of top 300Bs. I have never heard them myself, but I keep hearing excellent things about them. Dying to try them.
 
Also depends on the application. I have a set of EATs - these are airy, balanced, extended, neutral and hyper detailed tubes. For rock / vocals either the SERPs or Psvanes would do a much better job - but start talking classical or jazz and these things come into their own in a big,big way.

 

[Stereolab42]

I'm finally getting my EML 300B meshes this week. I doubt they will be better than the SERPs, but that's not my expectation... I just want something roughly equal in quality to serve as variety, even if its strengths turn out to be different.

 

[TonyNewman]

  I'm finally getting my EML 300B meshes this week. I doubt they will be better than the SERPs, but that's not my expectation... I just want something roughly equal in quality to serve as variety, even if its strengths turn out to be different.

 
Please share your thoughts on the EML meshes vs SERPs once you have some hours on them. I would be very interested in any comparison you might like to make

 
I sometimes wonder if I did the right thing with getting both the Psvane replicas and the SERPs - they are much more alike than not. To pick an arbitrary number - something like 90% overlap. The SERPs are more extended, the Psvanes more magical in the mids - apart from that they are almost indistinguishable to me (but that might say more about the crappy state of my hearing than the tubes).
 
The EATs are a very different animal, as mentioned in an earlier post.