[magiccabbage]

   
Glass encased dog droppings would be a big improvement over stock tubes

 
Congratulations on entering the world of 300B tube rolling. Your ears will love it, your wallet will not

lol

 

[Badas]

   
Glass encased dog droppings would be a big improvement over stock tubes

 
 

 
Yeah, why do they do that?
 
With a bit of effort they could get reasonable NOS tubes for not much $$.
 
I cringe at the sight of their amps on display at trade shows with those stock tubes. They could be turning potential customers away.

 

[TonyNewman]

   
Yeah, why do they do that?
 
With a bit of effort they could get reasonable NOS tubes for not much $$.
 
I cringe at the sight of their amps on display at trade shows with those stock tubes. They could be turning potential customers away.

 
Makes no sense to me either. Amps worth thousands of dollars with craptastic tubes in them. You are getting a very small fraction of the potential of these amps with the stock tubes.
 
Mid level Shuguangs are not that expensive and are decent performers - the HiFi series, for example. These are OK tubes, and a long way better than those horrid stock abominations.
 
Those stock tubes, especially the rectifiers and 300Bs, make me want to stuff my junk in a bacon slicer.

 

[Krutsch]

In other news, down on the low-end of tube rolling... Today I received my newly manufactured Telefunken E88CC-TK "Black Diamond" driver tubes from Tube Depot dot com (which I am impressed with, BTW - I asked for a matched pair and they wrote test values for each on the top of the boxes).
 
Cost effective, but I am curious where these were actually manufactured... no diamond on the bottom of the glass, but maybe that's over with for new tubes from Telefunken.
 
Trying them with the Western Electric 421a; about 10 minutes of burn-in, so impressions to follow. I am curious to see if the new tubes can hold their own against the NOS Siemens E288CC or the NOS Telefunken E188CC.
 

 
EDIT: 2 hours later, the Telefunken E88CC-TK are absolutely holographic (not sure how else to describe them) ... comparison w/ NOS tubes happens tomorrow.

 

[daverich4]

Problem solved since that post - I had to pair the 6f86 with a glenn adapter. By which I mean there is a right a left on the 6f8g tube and also right and left on the adapter. I had the adapter in the right and left slot but the tube was configured - left in right and right in left.

So I fixed it ¬

right tube in right adapter in right socket - left tube in left adapter left socket 


It was totally my own fault for not reading the message properly. All is good now and the combo sounds amazing!!!!

Glenn labeled mine left and right. He knew I wouldn't read his instructions.

 

[daverich4]

I have never heard about that. I have been using 6F8G tubes and Gelnn's adapters for years abd have never heard about specific tube and adapter per channel nor I have had a problem switching them around. Hummm 

It makes a difference in my WA22. Using them as intended puts the wires on the outside. Used that way the tubes are dead silent. Swapping them so the wires are on the insides gives me a very noticeable hum.

 

[magiccabbage]

Glenn labeled mine left and right. He knew I wouldn't read his instructions.

He labelled mine as well - that was not the problem. There were numbers on the tubes that correlate to the left and right adapter - I needed to sort them in the right order and then fix the adapter to the left and right socket. 
 
I had - right tube in left adapter/ left tube in right adapter
                            ¬                                    ¬
           left adapter in left socket/ right adapter in right socket 
 
you see where I went wrong? 

 

[magiccabbage]

New glass 
 

 

 

 

[daverich4]

  He labelled mine as well - that was not the problem. There were numbers on the tubes that correlate to the left and right adapter - I needed to sort them in the right order and then fix the adapter to the left and right socket. 
 
I had - right tube in left adapter/ left tube in right adapter
                            ¬                                    ¬
           left adapter in left socket/ right adapter in right socket 
 
you see where I went wrong? 

Ummm, no, I don't. I don't understand what you mean by right and left tubes. The position of the adapter determines whether the wire will be to the outside or the inside so that makes sense but why would it make any difference which tube was in the adapter?

 

[magiccabbage]

 
Ummm, no, I don't. I don't understand what you mean by right and left tubes. The position of the adapter determines whether the wire will be to the outside or the inside so that makes sense but why would it make any difference which tube was in the adapter?

the tubes came with a number that correlate with left and right - i will upload a pic later explaining

 

[magiccabbage]

sweet mother of **** - just plugged the LCD3 in the WA5 with the new tubes!!! My god the sound!!!

 

[Khragon]

I don't think it's L/R specifically matter, it's just that's the configuration that's work with out producing noise, I don't know why. Look like the tube orientation have something to do with it.
WA5 is specifically sensitive to 6F8G and adapters.
 
Beautiful pics by the way.

 

[Justin_Time]

sweet mother of **** - just plugged the LCD3 in the WA5 with the new tubes!!! My god the sound!!!

 


Sorry I missed the earlier posts: which tubes?

Inquiring mind wants to know...

 

[kokushu]

Hey, magic cabbage you have almost the same setup I have right now. I use to have the eml 300b mesh/tung sol bgrp 6f8g/ brimar 5z4g in my Woo Audio 5.  It was good for a while but I decide to go back to the sylvania bad boy.  Between the sylvania and ts 6f8g there is only little difference.  I basically trade a little bit or mid for more air.  The reason I am writing this is to tell you that if you have a chance get the Western Electric 422a.  Since I got it recently it have been the biggest different of any tube I replace of the stock tube.  Of course all of this is with the HD 800.  I am not good with describing the sound but it just sound more balance and airy.  The detail also increase by a lot and its probably because of the balance in sound now.  I do feel that it lose a little bit of bass slam but not extension.  Overall thought the 422a is the one tube where I plug in and I didn't have to focus hard to notice the difference.  I don't even think the 422a is burn in yet either so maybe it could get even better.  I recently also got a hold of ken rad 62n7gt and trying it over the sylvania.  I will get back on that tube later.

 

[Justin_Time]

 
Makes no sense to me either. Amps worth thousands of dollars with craptastic tubes in them. You are getting a very small fraction of the potential of these amps with the stock tubes.
 
Mid level Shuguangs are not that expensive and are decent performers - the HiFi series, for example. These are OK tubes, and a long way better than those horrid stock abominations.
 
Those stock tubes, especially the rectifiers and 300Bs, make me want to stuff my junk in a bacon slicer.

 


The answer seems fairly simple to me: Avoid Sticker Shock!

This is similar to the way cars are sold in the US. They lure you in with the low price of the basic model then hit you with option (luxury) packages.

Let's take the Woo WA5-LE: basic model with crappy tubes $2,750--and do not forget the crappy, uh, I meant so-so quality parts.

Now, while some of us may not even think twice about paying that price, it gives many (perhaps most) of us pause. Do I want to spend that much money on a headphone amp? Nevertheless, this relatively " low" price has probably enticed some to take the plunge who may not have done so at a higher sticker price.

Now comes the option packages: Sophia Princess 300B Matched pair $1,200; Sylvania 6SN7 WGT Matched pair: $300; Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier $320.

If these upgraded tubes were included as part of the basic WA5-LE--to make the amp sound the way it should--the total price would be $4,570! If this were the entry price for the WA5-LE, many of us, myself included, would have balked.

And also remember that you still have the "crappy," no, I meant acceptable parts in the critical areas. To get the "good" parts and the best sound that the WA5 "deserves" you need to shell out another $1,200, which bring the total to $5,770--and you don't get the good teflon sockets at that low, low price

So, which entry price would help to sell more WA5-LE? $2,750, $4,570 or $5,770?

Of cource once you're hooked, thanks in large part to the lure of the low initial price of $2,750, you will end up spending a lot more than the additional $1,820 for the upgraded tubes (in my case, way over $2,500 trying various tubes: SE Royal Princess, EML, Elrog, Sylvania, Shuaguang Treasure, ..). But that is spread over a period of a few years so the pain was not quite as apparent as the initial sticker shock of $4,570. Perhaps that is why I never bought the Apex Pinnacle because $10,000 is just too much money to spend on any amp to me, though f course I end up spending way more than that buying many other "affordable" amps, way more than I need.

One positive thing about the basic model with crappy tubes it that it gives me the freedom to tailor the sound of the amp to my liking with tubes of my choice. Of course this freemdom to chose comes at a high price.

I hope this makes sense to you. It does to me. BTW, I do not mean to imply any unethical behavior on the part of Woo. Far from it. This is simply sound business strategy that is employed in a wide range of business.