The discovery thread!

[hlb96]

Hate to say it, but with Alix, when you get the "delivered" and you got no product, get ready for the journey that seems to have no end, and could get resolved within a week or two, or an almost neverending cycle with Alix customer service and the postal delivery and the seller? Sorry. Hope you find it.

I always use PayPal with Ali. I have yet to have issues with returns, getting items or cancelling an order. In fact the only time I had to use chat with support, they fixed my issue immediately. Of course YMMV.

 

[OceanOfLight]

Awesome. Yeah, it points to exactly my problems with A/B comparisons. Too many folks rely on a too-fast back and forth comparison, but as you say, going too quickly means our brains don’t have enough time to adjust, giving us a skewed sense for what an IEM actually sounds like. But taking our time between comparisons means we have to rely on very faulty audio memory. Damned if we do; damned if we don’t. No ideal solution IMO.

But I’m also starting to notice that some qualities are easier to remember than others. I find that things like timbre, decay, and transient performance are pretty consistent, even when switching between sets, sources, etc.

In my experience, it’s mostly just tonality that is most susceptible to the shortcomings of A/B testing, audio memory, and brain burn-in.

It's always a pleasure to discuss with you.

For starter, I believe you made an incredibly valuable point: some qualities are easier to remember than others, and I absolutely agree with you. Timbre, decay, and transient performance are definitely the easiest things to retain now that you’ve pointed them out. I wouldn’t actually say our sound memory works flawlessly with them, but it’s surely decent enough in its approximation. As for the sum of them all, though, I’m not so sure our memory performs as well. Again, we’re good at isolating and analyzing, but not so good at reconstructing as a whole, in my opinion.

Also, you perfectly grasped the other point I was trying to make indirectly: I cannot see a perfect solution with either of the methods; they are both inherently flawed. Logically, though, even despite its imperfection, I think the comparisons post brain burn-in have the upper hand, since I think it’s overall more indicative of the majority of our listening time, despite memory playing a more significant role in its execution.

As for us, we can’t do much more than use the imperfect instruments we have to our best, can we?

Well said! Sound memory is so fleeting that I've given up relying on it when reviewing gear—it just doesn't hold up. I can’t even confidently claim the IEM I used last night is better than the one I’m using now. Memory is tricky like that. Honestly, it’s tough to compare two IEMs back-to-back unless there’s a significant difference between them. You really have to stay calm and super focused to make a fair comparison. In my opinion, comparisons are more valuable than just describing a tuning. They offer a clearer sense of what each IEM brings to the table since tuning impressions can vary so much. What sounds warm to one person might seem completely neutral to someone else.

Adding to the discussion:

Initial impressions of new gear can often be misleading, especially when you're excited about it. Most IEMs sound decent right out of the box, but it usually takes a few days to truly understand their tuning. I prefer to give IEMs a break after the first listen and revisit them later. This approach can sometimes lead to surprising discoveries. For example, the Sound Rhyme SR9 initially didn’t impress me, but after some burn-in and a few days' rest, I found myself liking it more. However, after spending time with more neutral and less warm IEMs, I now find the SR9 a bit too warm for my taste, so it’s not my go-to choice anymore. Preferences can be cyclical; sometimes an IEM seems perfect, and later it might not hit the mark as much. Rotate

Extremely well said! It wouldn’t be an understatement to say I agree with everything you just said.

You also raised many other interesting points, such as the overall uncertainty of superiority between different IEMs, the fact that waiting a fair amount of time is needed to properly value a new IEM, and especially the cyclical preferences argument. I think the latter is pretty much related to the point I was trying to make but ultimately omitted from my original post, which regarded the ‘IEM that will be used as a reference point.’ In the post, I was talking about it as the initial listening of the day/session, but I wanted to expand upon it and reach a point very closely related to the one you mentioned. That would’ve led to the impossibility of excluding subjectivity from reviews and the consequential paradox of preferences that unavoidably shift with time (as you said, not even definitively, but temporarily and cyclically).

But as you can imagine, it would've end up being way too long. Nevertheless, I believe it could be a potentially very interesting discussion for another day!

Also, thanks to everyone for participating in the conversation. I like writing these kind of analysis on my own too, but what can I say? Discussing directly with other people as interested as I am in the subject is definitely more fun!

You're all a bunch of noobs!

I A/B IEMs wearing one in my left ear and the other in my right ear!

This truly is a Big problem and one of the reasons I don't base my reviews on comparisons too much.

Plenty of good points, thanks. But I get very simple approach to deal with new IEM. I just listen the new model the first day, and then (if not already rejected) start to rotate it with already accepted models. And just see what is happening with my motivation to select this new model in comparison with old ones.

Yes, from time to time I still use head to head comparison on short (15-20 second - yes, our memory is short here) fragments. But it supplies additional, secondary information.

Thanks for reading!

I believe using short head-to-head comparisons can definitely provide additional insights into the characteristics of both IEMs. However, I still think the ‘pre brain burn-in’ phase may affect the end result and not give a 1:1 experience. But if you’re doing it to gather secondary information and better understand their ‘identity’ then you’re absolutely right in doing so.

 

[Leonarfd]

Been loaning the Symphonium Titan over the weekend, its a fun set. I have some fit problems with Crimson and Titan so I cannot use them for as long as I want, but that havent stopped me from enjoying some hours with Titan.

It have both great sub bass rumble and great midbass punch, since bass is so boosted it does also sound a little dark. But this is also a good thing as it then matches well with electronica that often have digital brighter elements, for me this more of specialized set for fewer genres. Not doing a deep evaluation, have instead just had fun with Titan.

Some other sets I love for great bass: 634ears LOAK2-TX02, Alpha Omega RA/Omega, CFA Bonneville and Thieaudio HYPE 4/Oracle MKIII. All of them have great sub bass rumble and punchy mid bass, some better than others on different things. But Titan do join them in being within bass quality hall of fame.

I understand the hype of Titan, premium shell and good basshead tuning. Some bassy electronica under the photos for you to enjoy

 

[hlb96]

Tripowin makes a $40.00 mixed cable (it's thin) that's efffin da bomb!! Love that cable, and I've bought 3 so far.

Which cable is this?

Thanks for the excellent reply to my newbie question.

 

[InvisibleInk]

Interestingly enough, that's what the manufacturer recommended doing when someone brought up issues with the amp. Apparently it's really easy to mod, but I'm just gonna use it stock for the time being, as I really don't use my desktop too often.

I dicked around with some cheap opamps before I went all in and swapped out the stock opamp ICs for a pair of Burson V5i's. On sale, they were like $60-something per pair... I forget. But it was worth it! Christ-on-a-stick was it ever worth it.

 

[Syan25]

I've got a very exciting six months ahead of me. I'll finally be able to do some reviews.

There are a couple of albums I hold dear to my heart but the vocals were recorded just a tad too close to the mic causing the voice to be too forward with a hint of glare. Two iems that took that glare away were the Nightjar Singularity and the Meze Advar which will be arriving within those six months. That's a £1800 investment.

Both iems have their faults but I love the way vocals come across on them.
Both dynamic driver iems.

This month, I have the Fii0 FH19 coming. My first FiiO iem. Happy times.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

So the KZ Vader balanced dropped yesterday. Really enjoying those. Now the Letshuoer S12 2024 has landed. Absolutely amazing unboxing experience. This oozes class and quality. No doubt about it. My serial # is within the first 500, at 410. The modular cable absolutely rocks, and it's beautiful. Also includes my 2.5mm balanced, so thanks LS! So now all I'm waiting for this week are for my Thieaudio Oracle mk III to land. Until then, popping these golden beauties into my ears....

Initial listening rig : Sony A55 > FiiO Q1 II > Lunashop P/G interconnect thru 2.5mm balanced.

Ambrose Akinmusire - Origami Harvest (2018).

First and very quick OOTB impressions : These are the planar sound realized. From the fleshed out bass response (rumble + resolution) to the beautifully rendered mids, to the well controlled but well extended upper mids and treble, this is class and clarity. It's a slightly more mature listening experience to the OG Tangzu Wu Zetian, as the treble is fuller, as is the bass experience. Soundstage is similar to the Wu Zetian, but maybe just a bit more clarity in the spaces in between instruments? I still have a bunch of source rolling to do (I initally settled on the Aur Audio mushroom tips), and potentially tip rolling, but earliest of impressions is this is worth EVERY PENNY spent on purchasing these. Thanks to those who rec'd this, and that includes @Rambone.

 

[anli]

I still think the ‘pre brain burn-in’ phase may affect the end result and not give a 1:1 experience.

As I have mentioned, after exclusive 1 day listening I throw the new model into rotation, and at this point it has got the same level of acceptance/perception as models already in use. Rotation results (may be in a week or month) are those ones used to make decision (keep the model or reject).

I guess pre-burn-in effect is eliminated here, isn't it?

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

This is the exact point I have a problem with. Resolution, details, separation and all these words usually reflect frequency distortions (that is we listen to something very different from what we know around us in the real world) So "humble resolution", "not too detailed" and other similar terms in reviews are signs for me to look at the IEM model more. Probably it is the model I want. For me the natural, even, neutral tonality is the first criteria to estimate.

Seamless sounding is probably the second (you know on 1DD + xBA bass sometimes is percepted as something different form the other range).

In other words I belong to tiny marginal group of those not interested in sounds, but in music. I never get pleasure from "how the voice sound", "how impact bass is" and so on. I'm beyond this vivisection. It's pointless for me.

Easy. You're a neutralhead who's more iinto macro than micro, and that's admirable. It's one of many groupings, takes, and tastes.

 

[Syan25]

So the KZ Vader balanced dropped yesterday. Really enjoying those. Now the Letshuoer S12 2024 has landed. Absolutely amazing unboxing experience. This oozes class and quality. No doubt about it. My serial # is within the first 500, at 410. The modular cable absolutely rocks, and it's beautiful. Also includes my 2.5mm balanced, so thanks LS! So now all I'm waiting for this week are for my Thieaudio Oracle mk III to land. Until then, popping these golden beauties into my ears....

Initial listening rig : Sony A55 > FiiO Q1 II > Lunashop P/G interconnect thru 2.5mm balanced.

Ambrose Akinmusire - Origami Harvest (2018).

First and very quick OOTB impressions : These are the planar sound realized. From the fleshed out bass response (rumble + resolution) to the beautifully rendered mids, to the well controlled but well extended upper mids and treble, this is class and clarity. It's a slightly more mature listening experience to the OG Tangzu Wu Zetian, as the treble is fuller, as is the bass experience. Soundstage is similar to the Wu Zetian, but maybe just a bit more clarity in the spaces in between instruments? I still have a bunch of source rolling to do (I initally settled on the Aur Audio mushroom tips), and potentially tip rolling, but earliest of impressions is this is worth EVERY PENNY spent on purchasing these. Thanks to those who rec'd this, and that includes @Rambone.

Jewellery! Bling bling!

 

[bithalver]

I always use PayPal with Ali. I have yet to have issues with returns, getting items or cancelling an order. In fact the only time I had to use chat with support, they fixed my issue immediately. Of course YMMV.

Good for you to still have a chance to use PayPal on Aliex; it was removed for Hungary some years ago.

So the KZ Vader balanced dropped yesterday. Really enjoying those. Now the Letshuoer S12 2024 has landed. Absolutely amazing unboxing experience. This oozes class and quality. No doubt about it. My serial # is within the first 500, at 410. The modular cable absolutely rocks, and it's beautiful. Also includes my 2.5mm balanced, so thanks LS! So now all I'm waiting for this week are for my Thieaudio Oracle mk III to land. Until then, popping these golden beauties into my ears....

Initial listening rig : Sony A55 > FiiO Q1 II > Lunashop P/G interconnect thru 2.5mm balanced.

Ambrose Akinmusire - Origami Harvest (2018).

First and very quick OOTB impressions : These are the planar sound realized. From the fleshed out bass response (rumble + resolution) to the beautifully rendered mids, to the well controlled but well extended upper mids and treble, this is class and clarity. It's a slightly more mature listening experience to the OG Tangzu Wu Zetian, as the treble is fuller, as is the bass experience. Soundstage is similar to the Wu Zetian, but maybe just a bit more clarity in the spaces in between instruments? I still have a bunch of source rolling to do (I initally settled on the Aur Audio mushroom tips), and potentially tip rolling, but earliest of impressions is this is worth EVERY PENNY spent on purchasing these. Thanks to those who rec'd this, and that includes @Rambone.

Glad you like it ! Please try it with any ASOS cable. Thx in advance !

 

[pk4425]

*Sivga Que*
Lovely lushness. Like the warm hug you didn't know you needed. Please check out more in my review.


Sibilance dip is indeed very pronounced and takes away some of the energy that area carries. However, it makes it for a better loud-ish listen.

Are the Que and Explorer similar or somewhat redundant, Nik?

 

[Syan25]

Are the Que and Explorer similar or somewhat redundant, Nik?

My thoughts too.

 

[nikbr]

Are the Que and Explorer similar or somewhat redundant, Nik?

Nope, not too similar and thus not redundant.
Bass is different (more punchy on Explorer, more textured on Que), mids are different (rounded on Explorer, more analogue on Que), treble is different (more extended on Explorer, more moody on Que).

Explorer will be a better all-arounder set, while Que is even more picky for both genres and moods. It would go well with your Explorer, MagicOne, and Piccolo. Fourth pair, fourth separate experience.

 

[Syan25]

It's really quite the contest at the £100 price point. Now there's so much hype around the S12 2024. I was thinking of the S12 pro. There's the explorer. Que. My butt cheeks quiver in the moist darkness.

Have no idea since I always save up for the more expensive ones.