[pradiptacr7]

Pilgram.

Are you visiting Canjam NYC??

 

[pradiptacr7]

So Canjam 2024 NYC is knocking on the door. I think some of the members or brand representatives are en route already.

I wish everyone all the best.

 

[DynamicEars]

Nah, all frequencies are combined into just one signal, and the driver wiggles according to the combined signal. In order to produce 20kHz, it needs to be able to wiggle at 20kHz. That’s why folks like oratory1990 gets really angry when people ask them about “driver speed” (and consider them dumbass for asking such question). If the driver can make some sound at 20kHz, it is “fast enough” to produce 20Hz or anything under 20kHz

I believe that the subjective “fast” or “slowness” of the driver is a real phenomenon, but we might be attempting to find objective explanation for that at the wrong place.

Maybe that explains for how "full range" drivers works? While specialized frequencies BAs or ESTs that only cover part of some frequencies have "easier task" not to cover the whole 20hz - 20,000hz but maybe like 10khz-20khz for extra high BAs / ESTs hence, they sounded "faster"

 

[PhonoPhi]

Briefly, for the recent discussions: all the frequency information is there in the time domain, and can be visualized through the transformation into the frequency domain (Fourier transforms). For instance, here is a good story with a practical side: https://towardsdatascience.com/deco...ocessing-for-musical-engineering-c66f09a4d0f5

There are no principle differences between DDs and BAs: just the moving part (membrane) of BAs is typically much smaller, so BAs can respond faster but in a more limited frequency range. But then there are no principle limits in increasing the size of BAs, using side-firing BAs, like Sony, etc. and thus producing BAs close to DDs in size and sound. In ESTs, the transducer motion is much more restricted so ESTs are largely restrained to reproduction of higher frequencies.
Planars in many senses are good intermediates between DDs and BAs with smaller SPDs becoming a nice BA substitute (I really liked the agility, extension and relative smoothness of drivers in 1More Penta).
In this context, think how well a drum (DD) can reproduce violin sound with all the overtone series of the resonating strings.

 

[DynamicEars]

Briefly, for the recent discussions: all the frequency information is there in the time domain, and can be visualized through the transformation into the frequency domain (Fourier transforms). For instance, here is a good story with a practical side: https://towardsdatascience.com/deco...ocessing-for-musical-engineering-c66f09a4d0f5

There are no principle differences between DDs and BAs: just the moving part (membrane) of BAs is typically much smaller, so BAs can respond faster but in a more limited frequency range. But then there are no principle limits in increasing the size of BAs, using side-firing BAs, like Sony, etc. and thus producing BAs close to DDs in size and sound. In ESTs, the transducer motion is much more restricted so ESTs are largely restrained to reproduction of higher frequencies.
Planars in many senses are good intermediates between DDs and BAs with smaller SPDs becoming a nice BA substitute (I really liked the agility, extension and relative smoothness of drivers in 1More Penta).
In this context, think how well a drum (DD) can reproduce violin sound with all the overtone series of the resonating strings.

Thanks for the informations, nice to learn new things everyday

 

[CactusPete23]

Excellent points on graphs, and agree with most of what has been said. However, this hobby has both objective and subjective components.


The objective portion being measurements, specs and graphs. Graphs are useful as a gatekeeper for tonality, to see if someone will like or dislike an IEM instead of blind purchasing. For example, a basshead sees a massive bass roll-off on the graph will probably skip this IEM, and vice versa.

Graphs don't tell the full story of course, for example we can't 100% tell about technicalities (eg imaging, transients, instrument separation) or timbral accuracy (for example BA bass may have less decay than DD bass even if the graphs are alike).



But there's still a large subjective portion that in practice, translates to how the same graphed IEM may sound differently amongst individuals. These are the subjective elements:

1) Hearing Health
Generally the treble frequencies are first to be lost with older age (presbycusis > 50 years old).


I work in the medical line and sign off on audiometry tests daily - please see the graph above on the general hearing range for each age band. It is a physiological phenomenon to lose the higher frequencies as one gets older. A 17 year old is gonna hear treble very differently from a 70 year old. So sometimes we disagree on forums, with someone saying this IEM is smooth as silk, another saying it is a banshee screaming mess. Both may not be wrong actually.

To complicate matters, some hobbyists suffer from noise induced hearing loss (from occupational or leisure induced), and they lose the 3/4/6 kHz areas first, as the hair cells that transmit these frequencies are found nearer to the outer ear, and are the first to die with prolonged loud noise. So these regions generally cover the upper mids and lower treble, which may explain why some folk think something is shouty in upper mids, but someone else disagrees.



2) Fletcher Munson curve - aka volume played at
https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/

Music is perceived to be more V shaped (ie boosted treble and boosted bass) at louder volumes. The treble and bass is less pronounced at lower volumes.

Consumers and reviewers hardly mention the volume they use their gear at, so this may be a huge area that affects how we perceive treble and bass.

So the graphs and tonality actually change with different volume levels used.



3) Sources
Some sources are not neutral, and are brighter or warmer, which can influence tonal balance, even on the same transducer with the same graph.



4) Eartips/Foams/Headpads
Like sources, some tips/foams/headpads boost or tame treble, even on the same graph (and within the same individual too).


If we take the example of the Moondrop Stellaris. The green graph is with the stock Softear Ultra Clear silicone tips - this is the baseline frequency response.

A wide bore eartip like the Tenmark Whirlwind gives the most treble boost - red graph.

The Final E Black tips (narrow-bore) tames the treble the most - black graph.

Ear anatomy influences ear tip sonics too, which also brings us to the next point.



5) Ear anatomy
Different ear anatomy may influence sound at the upper mids (pinna gain). Even with the same eartips and same graph.

There's an interesting post from Precog about this if you are interested: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/precogs-iem-reviews-impressions.937468/page-94#post-16524009




So in summary, this audio hobby is both subjective and objective. Both components have their place in this hobby, and for sure graphs are very useful to have a taster for tonality (but graphs don't tell the full story at the same time). Based on the subjective components above, how someone hears the same transducer may be a total 180 degrees different from another person, even on the same graph.

Maybe a learning point from this, is that we should respect others' impressions of audio gear, there is really no outright right or wrong. It would also be helpful if we could follow a reviewer or fellow hobbyist who you know shares the same hearing impressions as you do.

I guess we should ask all reviewers to provide their age, and/or a recent hearing test? LOL

 

[Kyonnie]

I guess we should ask all reviewers to provide their age, and/or a recent hearing test? LOL

Lol, To expand on this each ear hear things differently "People's left and right ears are never the same. Each has their own and distinct hearing abilities, reflecting, in fact, the functional asymmetry of our brain. The sounds coming from the right ear are processed by the left cerebral hemisphere and vice versa. While the right hemisphere of the brain is responsible for processing non-verbal sound information, such as pitch, intensity and timbre, the preponderance of the left ear in listening to music and ambient sounds."

I use this feature on my Android sound settings called Adapt Sound in Samsung. It's a very useful tool for volume-matching IEMs, earbuds, and headphones. It works by giving you a frequency test and adjusting each frequency depending on how well you can hear them. I also use them as an at-home audiogram test (I know it doesn't replace a proper test), but it's good enough to get an idea on your hearing health.

This was taken using my most neutral earbuds that I have Ksearphone LBBS.

And this aken with my most neutral IEMs Etymotic ER4SR.

And as you can see from my results, my left ear has a little bit of trouble hearing higher pitches compared to my right ear. It can be because of multiple factors, like the aforementioned age, hearing damage, my ear anatomy, or just how my brain interprets sounds. It's very complicated lol.

 

[nikbr]

Fellow Headfiers, my First Review Ever is Now Live and you can check it out below if it is of any interest:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/simgot-ea500-lm.26966/reviews#review-33224

 

[Zerstorer_GOhren]

Finally, I opened this one up a few hours ago. My initial first impression about LETSHUOER CADENZA 4, sounds like its elder sister but treble has less emphasis but still managed to have a smooth and sufficiently airy. Technical capabilities appears to be very competent but not on par with its TOTL flagship version. For some reason, its tuning reminds me of AFUL MagicOne which is also my favourite set in terms of neutral tuning but with even more better technical performance.

 

[pk4425]

I love both. But from your description of warm sound with hitting midbass I think Fan2 would suit you best.
Great for Americana, singer/songwriter, but also rock and can do hip hip but you won't get that deep sub bass rumble. (I don't care for sub bass, it hurts my ears.)
Fit can be an issue though. You need to get a deep fit and go down in tip size. I use Large tips on all my iems, except for Fan2, as you can see from the pic, where I use the smallest.
It might be a honeymoon phase, but I'm currently listening more to Neo3. It sings from my OTL tube amp Little Dot Mk3.

But, from your description you can't go wrong with Fan2 soundwise. Fit I guess you have to try to know.

Good to know about fit. Thanks. I was sensitive to deep insertion of Crin Zero 2 Red, so the Fan 2 could be a problem. Hmm.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Haven't listened to my Fearless Shangri-la in AGES! Maybe over a year, as I wasn't too thrilled with the bass tones (heavy and slightly dark due to slight mid bass bleed), but I decided to pull them out last night, and paired them with the Sony A306, and holy moley, what a revelation! It was almost like hearing these for the first time ever, as in, I don't remember them sounding this good?! The bass is present and punchy, with excellent sub bass rumble, but the mid bass isn't as intrusive, as the highs shimmer and shine much more in line with the rest of the frequencies. It's definitely more in line with how HBB reviewed them way back, which prompted me to jump on them when they were on sale. I played them thru some other DAPS, and they were pretty good, but thru the A306, it's a magical pairing, and I'm sticking with them for now. Maybe switch up to the Trio later tonight?

 

[passie42]

I was not planning to buy another IEM soon but the Kiwi Ears Crinacle have made me extremely curious… I hope some reviews will pop-up before I buy them blind and (again) will be disappointed. To many, way to expensive, IEM’s let me down…
The Thieaudio Hype 2, 1more Penta P50, Aful Performer8, Blessing 3, Kato…all major disappointing for me… For now I’ll stick with the IE200 and MP145….

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

I was not planning to buy another IEM soon but the Kiwi Ears Crinacle have made me extremely curious… I hope some reviews will pop-up before I buy them blind and (again) will be disappointed. To many, way to expensive, IEM’s let me down…
The Thieaudio Hype 2, 1more Penta P50, Aful Performer8, Blessing 3, Kato…all major disappointing for me… For now I’ll stick with the IE200 and MP145….

This post needs to be pinned as the definition of "there's no accounting for taste" and "sound is subjective" that we constantly hear in this thread LOL Disappointed in the Aful P8 and Blessing 3, but satisfied with the IE200?!?! PIN THIS! That way anyone who ever disputes this, can have this thrown in their face forevermore!

This is not a cut on you, passie42, but a sheer definition of "we all hear differently."

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Another revelation with the Shangs. I noticed they have some of the longest nozzles I have ever seen on an IEM. This made the lightbulb go off, and I pulled out my Dunu S&S tips, and VOILA!! Perfect fit in my ears for the first time with these tips. Excellent seal, and they are great tips for this particular IEM. The Shangs might be moving back into regular rotation after a year+ on the bench?

 

[fidgeraldo]

Dunu S&S tips, and VOILA!!

I found them great, too!