The discovery thread!

[PhonoPhi]

Just playing devil's advocate, should price not be a factor in rating gear?

Let's take an exaggerated example for discussion:
- IEM A scores 4/5 based on technical performance, but costs $300 USD.
- IEM B has exactly the same technical performance as IEM A, but IEM B costs $100 USD.

Is it fair to grade both 4/5? Shouldn't the more expensive IEM be rated down, or at least the less expensive one be given more credit? If both are graded 4/5, where does the aspect of price-to-performance ratio come in? Should we be a bit more lenient with very cheap gear, and stricter with more expensive products, or treat all equally and strictly?

Ideally, it is instructive to exclude price, as it can fluctiate and be different in different countries.

Then for this "ideal" absolute evaluation, scale of 1 to 5 won't be sufficient, even 1 to 10. So scoring out of 100 will be needed.

Also, those who evaluate should ideally have an access to reference IEMs across the scale, the scores of which are mutually agreed upon.

To achieve the above criteria is hardly practical and realistic, so subjectivity pretty much rules.

In this context, to get a good grasp of a IEM evaluation, multiple different opinions are needed to arrive closer to the objective truth.

 

[o0genesis0o]

I think by your own description, B2 would be the level of resolution you would consider "acceptable". If you are taking price out of your impressions, most $50 sets are not "acceptable" if they can't produce B2 levels of resolution.

Look at it another way: You have your benchmarks that hit certain levels and that works well for your grading. But how many sets that don't hit a 3/5 in every category do you use? It is perfectly acceptable that high-end, mid-fi, and budget sets have improved since B2, so that it is not a 4/5 benchmark because so many sets can reach that level. Lately, you've been saying Ando has been the gatekeeper to high-end resolution and/or soundstage so why shouldn't that be the benchmark for great now, over a set like B2, when your knowledge base has moved and you know more now than you did then?

It's just my opinion of course, and you can take my suggestions any way you wish, that's okay. I would just suggest that the answer to your grading issue isn't to be more accommodating and bend the curve, it's to be stricter and make sets really earn it by your standards.

But that's what makes sense to me

Wise advice! I’ll consider when upgrading my rubric. Maybe it’s time Blessing 2 a 3/5. Otherwise, everything is 4/5 and 4.5/5.

Nice review! I really want to try MEST III. I go back and forth pretty often lately about which I like better, og Mest or Z1R...and some days I lean towards MEST. I might wait until it comes down in price, and/or sell some of my lesser used IEMs. My collection is at critical mass and it's a little embarrassing haha.

I’m leaning toward MEST II, since from memory, it triggers the same stage impression to me, and it is 1/2 price of MEST III right now. Managed to borrow a MEST II and Helios. Let’s see which one survive this face off.

Also looking forward for AmericanSpirit 10-BA unit.

Anyhow, coming up next would be the review of the shockingly expensive dongle L&P W4.

 

[Altes]

Appreciate the post! SR8 really is a special IEM. The fact that it is at $750 for the sound it kicks out is definitely fantastic value for $$. You really nailed it about how it envelops you in sound. So true. I think the magic has to do with the richness of the midrange, and what I think of as the 'scale' of the midrange. It just has this grand fullness, and is spread over a large area. For me this is what gives the IEM such a true-to-life feel. It may not have the last iota in sub-bass extension (although it is very good "for a BA low end"), and maybe not the twinkliest treble, but the combination of the details and layering it does throw out, and 3D character of the soundstage, give it this grandeur that I find addicting.

I think the 10th is very close to this level. Another masterpiece. It's just a bit more of an analogue presentation, with a touch more bass kick / warmth. Can't go wrong with either IEM, that's for sure.

What switch settings/tips/cable are you using with the SR8?

 

[WAON303]

There is a challenge with that.

Say, resolution. 4/5 is Blessing 2 level. Ideally, I want to move Blessing 2 to 3/5 (acceptable). It means Andro would drop to 4/5 from 4.5, and U12t would keep the gate at 5/5.

However, most IEMs above $200 coming across my review desk are at Blessing 2 level. If Blessing 2 is merely 3/5, most IEMs are 3/5. Is it true that Blessing 2 is merely acceptable rather than good in terms of resolution? If Blessing 2 is 3/5, many $50 would be 2/5 or less. I don’t think they are 2/5 (bad).

So the bandage so far has been adding 4.5 band.

---

Anyhow, back to discovery MEST III review coming right up. Looking forward for someone to mimic the MEST III stage at 1/4 price.

This retiering is not out of place like some people believe.

Because Precog is kind of infamous for his tier list, the B2 has a 6 out of 10 in detail retrieval which is technically average

I'd go with this new score system if I was going to overhaul the old one:

1/5: Bad
2/5: Average
3/5: Good
4/5: Excellent
5/5: TOTL

This is basically a simpler version of Precog's tiering system.

 

[DynamicEars]

Howdy folks, MEST III review is online on head-fi and my blog.

Spoiler: tl;dr:

In my journey through the audio hobby, I’ve frequently experienced high expectations, followed by bitter disappointments. However, my encounter with the MEST series was a delightful and rewarding experience.

Pros:

• Holographic Soundstage: The sense of space and directionality was outstanding, making the listening experience truly captivating.
• Top-notch Resolution: The MEST III showcased exceptional resolution. Every instrument and voice felt clear and well-defined.
• Neutral-warm Tonality: I appreciated the coloured tonality of the MEST III. The vocals were natural and rich, and the instrument timbres felt enjoyable yet authentic.
• Energetic yet Controlled Treble: The treble performance of the MEST III struck a good balance between energy and control. The highs were engaging and provided a good level of sparkle without becoming harsh or fatiguing.

Cons:

• The Dynamic Could Be Improved: While the MEST III delivered a satisfying dynamic performance, I felt that it could be enhanced to provide a more visceral and impactful experience.
• The Stock Cable is Too Stiff: The stock cable provided with the MEST III proved to be overly stiff, affecting the overall usability and comfort of the IEM.
• The Stock Eartips Hinder Sound Quality: The stock eartips compromise the soundstage and overall sonic experience, making tip-rolling a necessity.
• Price Hike from MEST II

Updated: July 22, 2023

Nice review! I really want to try MEST III. I go back and forth pretty often lately about which I like better, og Mest or Z1R...and some days I lean towards MEST. I might wait until it comes down in price, and/or sell some of my lesser used IEMs. My collection is at critical mass and it's a little embarrassing haha.

Nice review. I believe the Mest MkIII is actually the limited Mest Indigo from driver configurations and the shell. I agree that from my experience with UM Mest OG, Mk II and Indigo (Mine is OG ak MkI), they are more similar than different, only matters of preference where MkI is having more forwarded high mids and brighter with their own benefit and cons such as "more resolution" but more edgy presentation, while the MkII is warmer and Indigo is slightly more detailed but they are sharing the same Mest DNA with great layered imaging combined with wide soundstage and nice bass quality. I think the used OG / MkII is the more value and worth to look unless you want the new fancy updated Mest MkIII. I never heard the MkIII myself but roughly I think is similar to Indigo (Indigo price is even higher), but still take with grain of salt as I never heard the MkIII myself.
As about Z1R which I coincidentally have also, as personal endgame I prefer Mest than my Z1R but I can't let go the Z1R for their almost perfect bass presentation, not the quantity but the physical impact, ratio between speed and dynamics and everything else, also combined with wide soundstage made them one fun unique must have IEM too for me. So conclusion : get both lol..

 

[Redcarmoose]

New TANGZU gripping ear-tips, cost a full 99 cents more than the Princess IEMs. Lol!
https://www.linsoul.com/products/tangzu-tang-sancai?variant=43929461522649
https://www.linsoul.com/products/tangzu-princess-chang-le?variant=43945950707929

The TANG SANCAI tips come either as a combo pack or sets of three identical sizes.

 

[Surf Monkey]

New TANGZU gripping ear-tips, cost a full 99 cents more than the Princess IEMs. Lol!
https://www.linsoul.com/products/tangzu-tang-sancai?variant=43929461522649
https://www.linsoul.com/products/tangzu-princess-chang-le?variant=43945950707929


The TANG SANCAI tips come either as a combo pack or sets of three identical sizes.

L is 13mm. Oh well.

 

[Carpet]

New TANGZU gripping ear-tips, cost a full 99 cents more than the Princess IEMs. Lol!
https://www.linsoul.com/products/tangzu-tang-sancai?variant=43929461522649
https://www.linsoul.com/products/tangzu-princess-chang-le?variant=43945950707929


The TANG SANCAI tips come either as a combo pack or sets of three identical sizes.

Textured for extra stimulation?

 

[Redcarmoose]

Edit:

 

[Carpet]

You can fit that in your ear???

(bet it has wicked sub-bass though)

 

[keesue]

Just received the Krilas. ***Look Ma, I'm spittin'!***

They arrived with all switches on. I listened to them off but they were too tinny. Flip ‘em all back up and they smoothed right out. They are musically well beyond the $16 asking price (shipping included to boot). They are very intimate sounding. I could only get them to sound good with my own foams. None of my silicones would work. With them, they dialed in with solid bass and acceptable extension. Guess that’s why they ship with foams. The treble region is smoother, mediating the inherent BA harshness. Me like. Now, back to spittin’?

 

[Carpet]

Chu 2 is here. Link below.
Who wants some Bamboo Two?

Chu with removable cable and bass,

By the graph, it appears Moondrop hasn't let the Stellaris tuning team back out of the dog box.

Losing three sets of Spring Tips, that are all too small for me. Boohoo.

I really don't need them.

but...

 

[keesue]

I popped in my Katos to check the difference, then back to the Krilas. Refined versus brash - BUT - these Krilas acquit themselves well for what they cost. No Katos - no problem: “The killas have you covered for $16“. The Krilas be da Killas! Look, Ma, I be spittin’!

 

[kmmbd]

This is not a new release, heck, it's over a year old, but the Warwick Acoustics Bravura is the best pair of headphones I have ever had on my desk (and that includes Susvara). Breathtakingly good sound, literally can't find a flaw even after a whole month of nitpicking.

Microdynamics are precise, imaging is laser-sharp, bass slams hard which is quite rare for estats, and there are no tonal aberrations that I can hear. Timbre is not as natural as certain ZMF headphones but that's about it, and something I don't even notice after some time.

Do try to give these a listen when visiting CanJam or another audio show. A worthwhile experience. Sadly mine are loaners so they'll be sent back pretty soon. #sigh

 

[kmmbd]

Chu with removable cable and bass,

By the graph, it appears Moondrop hasn't let the Stellaris tuning team back out of the dog box.

Losing three sets of Spring Tips, that are all too small for me. Boohoo.

I really don't need them.

but...

I received my pair of Chu 2 (weird rhyme there) yesterday. Had a brief listen and compared to OG Chu and JIU.

IMO, JIU are the best among the three, followed by CHU 2 and then the OG a distant third. CHU 2 still sound strained in the upper mids and the bass lacks richness and body. Treble sounds more extended and separation is better than OG but not day and night differences.

The lack of a detachable cable is the biggest downside of JIU, otherwise CHU 2 would be rendered irrelevant by their own brethren.