[AmericanSpirit]

Years ago I went through the cycle and ended up buying the Andromeda as my “end game.” But it didn’t last long. Here I am again. Good luck!

Same, Timeless supposed to be my endgame at least for 1 year. Stellaris opened up rabbit role again, due to its imperfection, that made me more IEM-thirsty.

 

[Vonbuddy]

Since I saw both akg.com and harman.com runs out of AKG N400’s stock, while you still can find several leftovers from other retailers, I’d posted a quick walk-thru of this TWS.
N400 is about to facing its end of product life.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/akg-n400-nc.26244/review/29820/

My business travel buddy and endgame TWS AKG N400NC.


Hope N400 will be remembered with honors.

I just bought the silver version of the N400 at Amazon for 117 dollars tax and all. About 20 dollars less than the black N400.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

I just bought the silver version of the N400 at Amazon for 117 dollars tax and all. About 20 dollars less than the black N400.

Cool! Silver one looks very nice too. You may dl akg’s app now and get ready

The EQ is full-band tunable, not like those “pull 2kh bar up/down” old school ones. So you can nitpick the slightest nuance expression to your preference with very high quality single dynamic driver.

Here is sample our old friend tgx have done with N400, and measured the recap.

 

[InvisibleInk]

I'm personally done with getting sub $500 IEMs, I own enough sets.

Hopefully I'll get my endgame next year.

Gave away my sealed Katos to an old friend, I'm sure they'll love the Kato.

It makes a lot of sense to get a Kato when I had a B2 Dusk, that's IEM obsession for ya.

As far as endgame goes, you could do what this guy on reddit did. He actually bought the HE-1 system and unboxed it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/zqjcly/first_ever_sennheiser_he1_unboxing_owner_review/

 

[AmericanSpirit]

As far as endgame goes, you could do what this guy on reddit did. He actually bought the HE-1 system and unboxed it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/zqjcly/first_ever_sennheiser_he1_unboxing_owner_review/

There is a cheaper way to taste a piece of HE-1.

Unipolar 2002 (1977). It’s one of very ancient electret headphone, Sennheiser accumulated the know-hows from Unipolar and released HE-1 Orpheus in 1991.

It is still very impressive sounding fullsize headphone among all of my collections… there are some antiques sold on second hand market especially in German domestic ebay. I see ongoing ones below 500 euros, but cheaper ones conditions and functionality may be verified before the purchase.

 

[WAON303]

Just looked up your collections, wow!! More than enough diversity you’ve got there. Which one is your favorite?

My favorite is See Audio Bravery now. I actually felt Bravery was overhyped at the beginning of the usage, but after renovated with some better ear tip and cable matched, it is very unique sounding IEM that can’t be replaced by any other.

I need the Fatfreq Maestro Mini to max out diversity, think I'll buy that one when I get my endgame IEM(s)

Don't have a clear favorite, I usually rotate between 6 IEMs. with the reminder seeing use once per month

I think the Bravery is nothing special other than having commendable treble extension.

You can do a lot better for $279.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

I'm not sure what you mean by this, since I could refer to basically any reviewer against your own ranking, since everyone differs significantly (I see nymz came over and gave a cheap set a better rating than Aria. lol) I don't know how Timmy's personal ranking is done (Moondrop Alice's very low 2, for example, is obviously based on user experience), but I think it's the same scale across each tier. That wouldn't surprise me because in the Q&A video he recently did, Timmy seemed to side that tech wasn't really separate from tonality. Go check out RikudouGoku's interesting rankings where a CCA CRA is S class unmodded and trouncing some mid-high sets.


Yes, Precog did this, too, but I've also seen people poo poo Aria and say Starfield is better or vice versa. Goober, for example, only gives Aria a C and a 2/5 for driver tech, yet gave Cadenza a 4/5 XD for driver tech (he has been changing this -- went down to 3 -- but I had a good laugh considering the timing). Also, currently has Sony N3 at similar level. From what I've seen, I don't see people crying about the Cadenza, which also has better build and cable than a lot of cheap sets.

If you think Crin is being sloppy with the C range, I'm not sure how you do not notice this for the higher tiers? For example, Crin rates highly Dunu DK-3001 pro and Fearless S8Z, yet Precog gives fairly middling score of 5 to both (mind you, Mele is 4). Also interesting how Precog and HBB are like opposites on detail for Illuminations and S8.


Too late. It looks like he took his fans' money and clicked the buy button for the Storm. XD

Um, you have seen HBB's rankings, right? It's a stretch to think he's making it as a big game changer when he specifcally made it about under $50 and a lot of his rankings are literally just 1 to 2 point differences on a 30+ scale. There were already low-cost iems that he placed at similar level like the Crinacle Zero.



It would be tough to find someone that ranks exactly like another person, so it's still useful to check other reviewers since some iems get overall good praise from more people. For example, Crin has S8Z high, but other reviewers not so much.

It made me big laugh seeing that someone ranked aria with technically 2/5, and Cadenza 4/5, and toning down to 3/5

The ranking fluctuations is very reviewer’s tuning preference dependent, so yea I can understand that part. Someone weight tonality as 95% of what it matters. Or that could be 100%. If HBB is like 95% inclined to tonality, yea Cadenza has got pretty good one, and it’s a match to his favorite curve.

I’ve noted reviewer’s target curve on my old post and here is the overlays of reviewers target curve.
Once you remember those chart, it will help you to walk thru with their review comments. A great preset of stress test.

You can see Precog’s target is N5005/u12t’s gain spot compensator type, while Crin is 3khz peak hitter.

The bass shelf is a good indicator of tonality preferences too.

I need the Fatfreq Maestro Mini to max out diversity, think I'll buy that one when I get my endgame IEM(s)

Don't have a clear favorite, I usually rotate between 6 IEMs. with the reminder seeing use once per month

I think the Bravery is nothing special other than having commendable treble extension.

You can do a lot better for $279.

yea that fatfreq sounds like another diversity. My impression was about same with yours untill very recent—hmm nicely U-tuned with bright treble”, hope you find the beauty within Bravery someday

 

[o0genesis0o]

It made me big laugh seeing that someone ranked aria with technically 2/5, and Cadenza 4/5, and toning down to 3/5

The ranking fluctuations is very reviewer’s tuning preference dependent, so yea I can understand that part. Someone weight tonality as 95% of what it matters. Or that could be 100%. If HBB is like 95% inclined to tonality, yea Cadenza has got pretty good one, and it’s a match to his favorite curve.

I’ve noted reviewer’s target curve on my old post and here is the overlays of reviewers target curve.
Once you remember those chart, it will help you to walk thru with their review comments. A great preset of stress test.

You can see Precog’s target is N5005/u12t’s gain spot compensator type, while Crin is 3khz peak hitter.

The bass shelf is a good indicator of tonality preferences too.



yea that fatfreq sounds like another diversity. My impression was about same with yours untill very recent—hmm nicely U-tuned with bright treble”, hope you find the beauty within Bravery someday

Interesting. It seems most enjoy decent ear gain but way less than Harman, more treble air, and decent amount of “meat” to the sound at 125 and 250hz. No one actively prefer the old school thick (muffle) midrange of Andromeda or random bump and dips between 250 and 1k.

Regarding ranking, I believe that the only way to have consistent ranking is A/B against benchmark IEM, which do not shift around. If a reviewer sits down, listen, and say 6/10 technical performance, it’s unlikely to be consistent between ranks. Heck, given how subjective and fizzy this whole hobby is, I don’t even think we can have the granularity to score IEMs from 1 to 10 or 100.

For example, the JD7 sounds great, very transparent and resolving by itself. 5/5? Nope, one quick A/B against Blessing 2 and Andromeda put it into place immediately. But if I review without A/B, I would sing praises about it much more due to how much I enjoy listening to it.

 

[baskingshark]

You are so right! Why are all the audio manufacturers making wireless headphones and earphones, because we are a dying breed. Most of what we buy will be vintage in no time.

From the other end, wireless tech is improving fast. Music streaming is mainstream and gaining in popularity. A bit more improvement in LDAC, AptX and we (audio enthusiasts) are relics of the past.

Tell a "layman" you are an audio enthusiast and the first thing they ask is a recommendation for a good set of headphones or earphones with ANC! You say, you are into wired sets and you get a weird look.

The huge companies are moving fast, with huge budgets churning out good imitations of audiophile gear. Above all it does not make financial sense to focus on audio enthusiasts, when there is a huge "lay" consumer market waiting for good quality sound.....why would Apple, Sony, Samsung bother to invest so much money in audio otherwise? They, ("lay" consumers) enjoy music just as much as we do, they can tell good sound......sorry, but not long to go before we become dinosaurs.

Yeah I think audiophiles that are into wired gear and espouse DAC/AMPs are a very niche minority. Possibly a dying breed even. Most of the younger consumers are into TWS.

I walk into a shopping mall or subway, and 90% of folks listening to music are using wireless stuff. I gave a young cousin who is into music a wired Salnotes Zero this week as an early Christmas present. He looked at it and was wondering his Apple phone has no 3.5 mm jack LOL, how do I play it? He says he has never used a wired IEM before!

Interestingly, I spoke to a local Spinfit rep a few months back, he was asking for feedback on some eartips, and he said that majority of their sales (by a huge margin), are from the CP360 eartip, which is for TWS. So they were thinking of focusing their research into TWS eartips rather than wired gear eartips.

So I think the industry is just going to be dominated predominantly by TWS gear moving forward. I appreciate that TWS brings huge convenience to the table, like if one is doing housework or exercising, they are really nifty. While I do think at this current point in time, TWS has made huge strides in sound quality, they still haven't hit the same sonic fidelity as a wired transducer, pound for pound. And you can't unhear that hahaha. Additionally, TWS is still kind of a planned obsolescence - either from battery life dying with repeated charges, or BT codec being out-of-date in a few months.

But companies are probably gonna pivot to where the money is, and that is the wireless pie.

A question about something old but would help me in a purchase. Sennheiser HD 660s vs HD650 vs Drop/Senn 6xx? Which one for listening to music?

HD650 and 6XX technically sound the same, perhaps the build is a bit different on the 6XX only. But internally and sonically, they are identical.

I haven't tried the HD660. But the HD650 has been around for decades and is lauded as a warm neutral set with excellent timbre and tonality. Very lush midrange and agreeable tuning. It needs amplification as per the high impedance, and technically it is not that great - soundstage is compressed and imaging and micro-details are poor. But the tuning is otherwise very pleasant and agreeable, a good set to relax and chill to, rather than critical listening.

The HD6xx is frequently discounted heavily on Drop, and I would just get that, if it is much cheaper than the HD650.

Regarding ranking, I believe that the only way to have consistent ranking is A/B against benchmark IEM, which do not shift around. If a reviewer sits down, listen, and say 6/10 technical performance, it’s unlikely to be consistent between ranks. Heck, given how subjective and fizzy this whole hobby is, I don’t even think we can have the granularity to score IEMs from 1 to 10 or 100.

For example, the JD7 sounds great, very transparent and resolving by itself. 5/5? Nope, one quick A/B against Blessing 2 and Andromeda put it into place immediately. But if I review without A/B, I would sing praises about it much more due to how much I enjoy listening to it.

Yes A/B testing is of paramount importance, agreed. Something can sound good by itself, but if you do a A/B comparison against a similarly priced competitor, ah that is when some flaws may show up. Doing comparisons burns a lot of time, but that is something that I feel should be in every review, YMMV.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Interesting. It seems most enjoy decent ear gain but way less than Harman, more treble air, and decent amount of “meat” to the sound at 125 and 250hz. No one actively prefer the old school thick (muffle) midrange of Andromeda or random bump and dips between 250 and 1k.

Regarding ranking, I believe that the only way to have consistent ranking is A/B against benchmark IEM, which do not shift around. If a reviewer sits down, listen, and say 6/10 technical performance, it’s unlikely to be consistent between ranks. Heck, given how subjective and fizzy this whole hobby is, I don’t even think we can have the granularity to score IEMs from 1 to 10 or 100.

For example, the JD7 sounds great, very transparent and resolving by itself. 5/5? Nope, one quick A/B against Blessing 2 and Andromeda put it into place immediately. But if I review without A/B, I would sing praises about it much more due to how much I enjoy listening to it.

Yea please visit andtroid’s audiodiscourse to load the target curve overlays.

And agree with benchmarking A/B test against set piece. Actually that’s what I’m doing, my reference monitor is Softear RSV.

Yeah I think audiophiles that are into wired gear and espouse DAC/AMPs are a very niche minority. Possibly a dying breed even. Most of the younger consumers are into TWS.

I walk into a shopping mall or subway, and 90% of folks listening to music are using wireless stuff. I gave a young cousin who is into music a wired Salnotes Zero this week as an early Christmas present. He looked at it and was wondering his Apple phone has no 3.5 mm jack LOL, how do I play it? He says he has never used a wired IEM before!

Interestingly, I spoke to a local Spinfit rep a few months back, he was asking for feedback on some eartips, and he said that majority of their sales (by a huge margin), are from the CP360 eartip, which is for TWS. So they were thinking of focusing their research into TWS eartips rather than wired gear eartips.

So I think the industry is just going to be dominated predominantly by TWS gear moving forward. I appreciate that TWS brings huge convenience to the table, like if one is doing housework or exercising, they are really nifty. While I do think at this current point in time, TWS has made huge strides in sound quality, they still haven't hit the same sonic fidelity as a wired transducer, pound for pound. And you can't unhear that hahaha. Additionally, TWS is still kind of a planned obsolescence - either from battery life dying with repeated charges, or BT codec being out-of-date in a few months.

But companies are probably gonna pivot to where the money is, and that is the wireless pie.




HD650 and 6XX technically sound the same, perhaps the build is a bit different on the 6XX only. But internally and sonically, they are identical.

I haven't tried the HD660. But the HD650 has been around for decades and is lauded as a warm neutral set with excellent timbre and tonality. Very lush midrange and agreeable tuning. It needs amplification as per the high impedance, and technically it is not that great - soundstage is compressed and imaging and micro-details are poor. But the tuning is otherwise very pleasant and agreeable, a good set to relax and chill to, rather than critical listening.

The HD6xx is frequently discounted heavily on Drop, and I would just get that, if it is much cheaper than the HD650.




Yes A/B testing is of paramount importance, agreed. Something can sound good by itself, but if you do a A/B comparison against a similarly priced competitor, ah that is when some flaws may show up. Doing comparisons burns a lot of time, but that is something that I feel should be in every review, YMMV.

Interesting info about Spinfit rep. I could objectively observing from their product offering and seeing they are shifting to volume zone IEM the TWS, good to hear the voice from Spinfit staff.

Hope TWS would come with replaceable modules/codecs someday. Like what Hifiman did to their modulated DAP, swappable DAC and batteries.

 

[ToneDeafMonk]

Show of hands for people who are going to buy the HEYDAY on Thursday?

 

[r31ya]

KZ marketing dept gone nuts, sending review copy to small non-audio reviewers for positive coverage?



This video was up days before the iem itself announced.
per the video,
"the ($14) iem is slighlty expensive"
*points at detachable cable and s+l eartips*
"well you get all of this thats why its a bit expensive"
"the sound is bassy and stereo"

 

[AmericanSpirit]

KZ marketing dept gone nuts, sending review copy to small non-audio reviewers for positive coverage?



This video was up days before the iem itself announced.
per the video,
"the ($14) iem is slighlty expensive"
*points at detachable cable and s+l eartips*
"well you get all of this thats why its a bit expensive"
"the sound is bassy and stereo"

KZ marketing copy phrase…..sad to see KZ has to go that way. I mean their sales point emphasis..

Amateur’s comment “Sound is bassy and stereo”
That’s KZ’s V for sure

Maybe the dig is worth, though. The reviewer has 25k subs, of which maybe many of them are non-audio enthusiasts at all, so at least some publicity you could expect from that page views /playbacks.

Giving out $14 iem (probably cost $2) for 25k subs may or may not work. I checked the channel’s past uploads, mainly consumer products, with avg 500 views. Not bad man. Not bad. It’s a hit or miss. Maybe the video could get the buzz. The channel is constantly uploading videos, which is very important to be a candidate of search result & auto-play recommendations on youtube.

 

[o0genesis0o]

KZ marketing copy phrase…..sad to see KZ has to go that way. I mean their sales point emphasis..

Amateur’s comment “Sound is bassy and stereo”
That’s KZ’s V for sure

Maybe the dig is worth, though. The reviewer has 25k subs, of which maybe many of them are non-audio enthusiasts at all, so at least some publicity you could expect from that page views /playbacks.

Giving out $14 iem (probably cost $2) for 25k subs may or may not work. I checked the channel’s past uploads, mainly consumer products, with avg 500 views. Not bad man. Not bad. It’s a hit or miss. Maybe the video could get the buzz. The channel is constantly uploading videos, which is very important to be a candidate of search result & auto-play recommendations on youtube.

To normal people, these KZ IEMs sounds quite good. So, yeah, I think the strategy might work. I mean I bought the first KZ because of that Aussie drummer guy on YouTube who fixes iPods and make funny videos (he lives in the same city, we shop at the same hifi store) Good for KZ. They don't win any point with audio geeks, but I guess we don't buy enough stuffs for them to care

 

[Tzennn]

To normal people, these KZ IEMs sounds quite good. So, yeah, I think the strategy might work. I mean I bought the first KZ because of that Aussie drummer guy on YouTube who fixes iPods and make funny videos (he lives in the same city, we shop at the same hifi store) Good for KZ. They don't win any point with audio geeks, but I guess we don't buy enough stuffs for them to care

Even if i buy enough stuff from them, i wouldn't care about any of their newest release. So did you heard the huh dud six hungeo by ol' mates senni ?