[Redcarmoose]

So I got a chance to check out the new to me NiceHCK NX7 Mk4 last night. What a nice surprise. They improved the sound but man what a lost opportunity. They need to move on from that same shell design. I like the comfort of it but why do I have a feeling if they put them same drivers in a more spacious housing it would sound even better.

I suppose they have to keep costs down and one way to do that is by using the same shells. Will be focusing my thoughts on them as well as the Shuoer S12 pros this week.

The S12 PROs are amazing I feel. Just a super box opening experience, then the construction is great, with attention to detail with how everything fits together. Run your fingers over the shells where they fit together and tell me if it isn’t one of the better builds you have come across? The eighth planar IEM I’ve reviewed and it climbs into probably 1st or 2nd place. The subtle V does most music justice, yet the bass is clean, fast and tight. The soundstage is just average but it makes up for that with decent detail through imaging. Transients are one of the better qualities in an IEM you get for under $200, and the Deep Space Blue color.........very cool.

 

[Dsnuts]

On an realated note. For folks that own the Letshuoer S12 pros.

Eagles have a similar balancing.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

You’d better ask in full-size headphone thread, or help thread.

As a 20 year owner of HD650, and I’ve tried HD600, and owning similar tuned HD560S, I’d recommend HD650, for warm-neutral Sennheiser’s tuning. I haven’t tried HD660S, so you may ask someone tried all of those.

following up with HD650.

It’s a classy visual representation of how each brand treat their basic approach in tuning, but I find it is still relevant even to-date.

 

[427951]

I’m not familiar with Timmy, but if that is his ranking style, to each his own.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, since I could refer to basically any reviewer against your own ranking, since everyone differs significantly (I see nymz came over and gave a cheap set a better rating than Aria. lol) I don't know how Timmy's personal ranking is done (Moondrop Alice's very low 2, for example, is obviously based on user experience), but I think it's the same scale across each tier. That wouldn't surprise me because in the Q&A video he recently did, Timmy seemed to side that tech wasn't really separate from tonality. Go check out RikudouGoku's interesting rankings where a CCA CRA is S class unmodded and trouncing some mid-high sets.

You see Crin does rough assessment for Aria/KXXS/Starfield as same B bracket.

Yes, Precog did this, too, but I've also seen people poo poo Aria and say Starfield is better or vice versa. Goober, for example, only gives Aria a C and a 2/5 for driver tech, yet gave Cadenza a 4/5 XD for driver tech (he has been changing this -- went down to 3 -- but I had a good laugh considering the timing). Also, currently has Sony N3 at similar level. From what I've seen, I don't see people crying about the Cadenza, which also has better build and cable than a lot of cheap sets.

If you think Crin is being sloppy with the C range, I'm not sure how you do not notice this for the higher tiers? For example, Crin rates highly Dunu DK-3001 pro and Fearless S8Z, yet Precog gives fairly middling score of 5 to both (mind you, Mele is 4). Also interesting how Precog and HBB are like opposites on detail for Illuminations and S8.

Regardless of tonality, you cant justify technicality C IEM as “best” at any chance, not in couple of month. It is not best at current state.

But as an influencer with thousands of followers, I can’t just sit and let that assessment to materialize.

Because Cadenza is not a game changer as proclaimed.

I personally have zero feeling about HBB, and actually likes some of his collaboration tuning.

Too late. It looks like he took his fans' money and clicked the buy button for the Storm. XD

Um, you have seen HBB's rankings, right? It's a stretch to think he's making it as a big game changer when he specifcally made it about under $50 and a lot of his rankings are literally just 1 to 2 point differences on a 30+ scale. There were already low-cost iems that he placed at similar level like the Crinacle Zero.

You get the gist. It’s a lot more about how closely the reviewer’s taste and preferences match your own than about how much or little reviewers agree or disagree with each other.

It would be tough to find someone that ranks exactly like another person, so it's still useful to check other reviewers since some iems get overall good praise from more people. For example, Crin has S8Z high, but other reviewers not so much.

 

[PhonoPhi]

My guess was that wireless audio will probably surpass wired as sooner than we can imagine. Like Mirrorless cameras are doing to DSLRs in photography...

But its way more complicared because of how lithium loses capacity with cycles. Most of the Wireless are unreparaible and if the battery dies, its gone. Its designed to be discarded in few years. Enviromentally so wrong

Another problem for audiophile: the small circuits wont ever match the power and scalability of bigger electronics. A bluetooth DAC with wired connection wont be surpassed easily

The limits of the wireless are cuurently in:

1. Transmission of the "perfect" HiFi signal.
2. Power available to transducers in a compact design

1. is currently being successfully solved by better hardware (transmitters) and software when needed. "Almost there".

2. Is a more imposing design limitation, batteries are close to the limits by energy density, so for compact designs the compromise on low-power transducers is inevitable.

Then for "HiFi", heavier (and more powerful) wireless adapters to existing IEMs would be an optimal non-disrupting solution.

The rechargable Li batteries can be made replaceable, e.g. to conform to existing button format. It will add to the mass by safety requirements, but can be an option or a goverment-imposed solution, like they often do in EU.

 

[Surf Monkey]

You are so right! Why are all the audio manufacturers making wireless headphones and earphones, because we are a dying breed. Most of what we buy will be vintage in no time.

From the other end, wireless tech is improving fast. Music streaming is mainstream and gaining in popularity. A bit more improvement in LDAC, AptX and we (audio enthusiasts) are relics of the past.

Tell a "layman" you are an audio enthusiast and the first thing they ask is a recommendation for a good set of headphones or earphones with ANC! You say, you are into wired sets and you get a weird look.

The huge companies are moving fast, with huge budgets churning out good imitations of audiophile gear. Above all it does not make financial sense to focus on audio enthusiasts, when there is a huge "lay" consumer market waiting for good quality sound.....why would Apple, Sony, Samsung bother to invest so much money in audio otherwise? They, ("lay" consumers) enjoy music just as much as we do, they can tell good sound......sorry, but not long to go before we become dinosaurs.

I don’t buy it. The fact of the matter is that the general public doesn’t care about high fidelity sound. They just don’t. People were and are happy to listen to AM radio, to spotty FM, to highly compressed digital streams… the demand for genuine audiophile level gear isn’t there as far as the mainstream goes. So the prospect of actual top-quality IEMS streaming uncompressed high definition files is… low. Look how badly Apple’s full size HomePod failed. Audiophiles have always been and will always be a niche market.

 

[o0genesis0o]

You are so right! Why are all the audio manufacturers making wireless headphones and earphones, because we are a dying breed. Most of what we buy will be vintage in no time.

From the other end, wireless tech is improving fast. Music streaming is mainstream and gaining in popularity. A bit more improvement in LDAC, AptX and we (audio enthusiasts) are relics of the past.

Tell a "layman" you are an audio enthusiast and the first thing they ask is a recommendation for a good set of headphones or earphones with ANC! You say, you are into wired sets and you get a weird look.

The huge companies are moving fast, with huge budgets churning out good imitations of audiophile gear. Above all it does not make financial sense to focus on audio enthusiasts, when there is a huge "lay" consumer market waiting for good quality sound.....why would Apple, Sony, Samsung bother to invest so much money in audio otherwise? They, ("lay" consumers) enjoy music just as much as we do, they can tell good sound......sorry, but not long to go before we become dinosaurs.

I personally don’t find LDAC behind wired connection, unless I focus really really hard. Apple’s AAC is barely acceptable, though. The bluetooth tech would keep improving. However, I don’t think the bluetooth link is the limitation of wireless gears. The DAC and amp are.

Hmm... So you didn't read that comment that AFUL actually burns in their IEMs before putting them in the packaging and shipping them out to customers? Someone dropped that info in this thread or the one about AFUL. I'd say that means the drivers should be 'properly aligned' from the get go in this case.

Yeah, Hifigo told me that AFUL burns in and measures every set individually before shipping out to distributors. That’s why my order was delayed.

Or it might just be excuse. But they give me a Dunu dongle in return, so all good. I have more stuffs to bla bla about

Just revisited, band8 review confirmed following:

Band 8 (Performer 8)
1 bio diaphragm DD
4 Sonion Mid BA
3 Knowles High BA
4 way crossover, 3 way tube

-warm, vocal forward, rolled off treble which had reviewer to comment “lack of air”
FR from that review


P8 is very colored IEM it seems. The tuning something new. Bass-rolled Mid-centric.

Some one has been copying 64 Audio Fourte (but without the TIA treble). I guess it would be love-it-or-hate-it kind of IEM.

My guess was that wireless audio will probably surpass wired as sooner than we can imagine. Like Mirrorless cameras are doing to DSLRs in photography...

But its way more complicared because of how lithium loses capacity with cycles. Most of the Wireless are unreparaible and if the battery dies, its gone. Its designed to be discarded in few years. Enviromentally so wrong

Another problem for audiophile: the small circuits wont ever match the power and scalability of bigger electronics. A bluetooth DAC with wired connection wont be surpassed easily

Interesting that you mentioned mirrorless. I remember in the early days, no one can even imagine DSLR would become a dying breed. Now, the budget DSLR is pretty much a dead category. Even “professional” cameras are mirrorless. I just borrowed a Canon whatever with an L lens for an event. It’s glorious.

Just listened to Akros talk about Eagle and compared it to H-30. Thought they were ok, but would take others over it. He actually recommended the

NF Audio RA10.​

Yeah, those RA10 are quite good if you are after a neutral (but not too thin and shrill) sound signature. These are like cheaper, more neutral version of Sennheiser IExxx series.

I don’t buy it. The fact of the matter is that the general public doesn’t care about high fidelity sound. They just don’t. People were and are happy to listen to AM radio, to spotty FM, to highly compressed digital streams… the demand for genuine audiophile level gear isn’t there as far as the mainstream goes. So the prospect of actual top-quality IEMS streaming uncompressed high definition files is… low. Look how badly Apple’s full size HomePod failed. Audiophiles had always been and will always be a niche market.

It’s good marketting, isn’t it? Slapping the wireless hi-res logo on, bragging about going all the way above CD quality.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Since I saw both akg.com and harman.com runs out of AKG N400’s stock, while you still can find several leftovers from other retailers, I’d posted a quick walk-thru of this TWS.
N400 is about to facing its end of product life.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/akg-n400-nc.26244/review/29820/

My business travel buddy and endgame TWS AKG N400NC.

Hope N400 will be remembered with honors.

N400 has saved my life. My plane had near crash flip right before touchdown, it almost flipped to 90 degrees by a sudden wind shear. I was too concentrated with a rhythm game with N400, and didn’t even noticed I’ve gone thru a near-death experience. Thank you buddy or I’d be traumatized.

 

[ChrisOc]

I don’t buy it. The fact of the matter is that the general public doesn’t care about high fidelity sound. They just don’t. People were and are happy to listen to AM radio, to spotty FM, to highly compressed digital streams… the demand for genuine audiophile level gear isn’t there as far as the mainstream goes. So the prospect of actual top-quality IEMS streaming uncompressed high definition files is… low. Look how badly Apple’s full size HomePod failed. Audiophiles has always been and will always be a niche market.

Granted, audiophiles will always exist, and I would be a happy man if our niche market remains healthy.

Looking at audio enthusiasts focused exclusively on speakers, or headphones or IEMs, my thoughts were directed at hear gear and whether the market would be geared towards the wired audio enthusiast or the wireless audio enthusiast, in a market with improved wireless offerings.

I take your point and I have to accept that it is entirely possible that even in a market where all the wireless issues, pointed out by @PhonoPhi and others, are resolved, bringing TWS toe-to-toe with wired sets, we could still have a market for wired sets, even if it is a smaller market. It will be a commercial question, simply whether there is enough money for those manufacturers to survive in a smaller marketplace.

 

[dharmasteve]

Looking at the speaker market, Bluetooth speakers are bought by so many, but the larger size traditional speaker market still has many buyers. So with TWS earphones. They mainly make sense if we are out and about. For home use I'm not sure they will replace wired or even personal Bluetooth DACs like the Quedelix 5K, until the sound quality and drivers, between wired and TWS equalises.I do think that there will always be a market for the best quality sound. It may take some time before TWS catches up. At home why would I want my Soundpeats or Sennheisers over my wired beauties. TWS has a way to go yet and mean little to HiFi enthusiasts presently. There is no way I would choose LDAC TWS over my IMR Dark Matter. We can stay geeky earphone oddballs for some time yet.

 

[WAON303]

I'm personally done with getting sub $500 IEMs, I own enough sets.

Hopefully I'll get my endgame next year.

Gave away my sealed Katos to an old friend, I'm sure they'll love the Kato.

It makes a lot of sense to get a Kato when I had a B2 Dusk, that's IEM obsession for ya.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Looking at the speaker market, Bluetooth speakers are bought by so many, but the larger size traditional speaker market still has many buyers. So with TWS earphones. They mainly make sense if we are out and about. For home use I'm not sure they will replace wired or even personal Bluetooth DACs like the Quedelix 5K, until the sound quality and drivers, between wired and TWS equalises.I do think that there will always be a market for the best quality sound. It may take some time before TWS catches up. At home why would I want my Soundpeats or Sennheisers over my wired beauties. TWS has a way to go yet and mean little to HiFi enthusiasts presently. There is no way I would choose LDAC TWS over my IMR Dark Matter. We can stay geeky earphone oddballs for some time yet.

For the most part the mainstream market has already made the transition to wireless. In fact there was a round of “news” stories recently about Gen Z kids going to wired buds because they look retro.

I think there’s hope for good wireless audio but it will require new codecs. Presumably enough demand will continue to exist to drive development forward. I just hope that Apple’s over processed “computational” approach doesn’t become the default.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I'm personally done with getting sub $500 IEMs, I own enough sets.

Hopefully I'll get my endgame next year.

Gave away my sealed Katos to an old friend, I'm sure they'll love the Kato.

It makes a lot of sense to get a Kato when I had a B2 Dusk, that's IEM obsession for ya.

Years ago I went through the cycle and ended up buying the Andromeda as my “end game.” But it didn’t last long. Here I am again. Good luck!

 

[AmericanSpirit]

I personally don’t find LDAC behind wired connection, unless I focus really really hard. Apple’s AAC is barely acceptable, though. The bluetooth tech would keep improving. However, I don’t think the bluetooth link is the limitation of wireless gears. The DAC and amp are.



Yeah, Hifigo told me that AFUL burns in and measures every set individually before shipping out to distributors. That’s why my order was delayed.

Or it might just be excuse. But they give me a Dunu dongle in return, so all good. I have more stuffs to bla bla about



Some one has been copying 64 Audio Fourte (but without the TIA treble). I guess it would be love-it-or-hate-it kind of IEM.



Interesting that you mentioned mirrorless. I remember in the early days, no one can even imagine DSLR would become a dying breed. Now, the budget DSLR is pretty much a dead category. Even “professional” cameras are mirrorless. I just borrowed a Canon whatever with an L lens for an event. It’s glorious.



Yeah, those RA10 are quite good if you are after a neutral (but not too thin and shrill) sound signature. These are like cheaper, more neutral version of Sennheiser IExxx series.



It’s good marketting, isn’t it? Slapping the wireless hi-res logo on, bragging about going all the way above CD quality.

I’m the old-fashioned one who still loves Canon’s SLR EOS camera.. the physical shutter sound……is priceless…..it generates adrenaline

 

[AmericanSpirit]

I'm personally done with getting sub $500 IEMs, I own enough sets.

Hopefully I'll get my endgame next year.

Gave away my sealed Katos to an old friend, I'm sure they'll love the Kato.

It makes a lot of sense to get a Kato when I had a B2 Dusk, that's IEM obsession for ya.

Just looked up your collections, wow!! More than enough diversity you’ve got there. Which one is your favorite?

My favorite is See Audio Bravery now. I actually felt Bravery was overhyped at the beginning of the usage, but after renovated with some better ear tip and cable matched, it is very unique sounding IEM that can’t be replaced by any other.