What DAPs may have trouble driving IEMs with Impedance：15Ω Sensitivity：94dB ? Maybe a weak phone. I guess every DAP and every dongle DAC should be able to handle it.
Do you have any factual evidence for "enhancing upper registers"? You have none, right? Such statements directly contradict basic well-established science (and what can be measured very precisely).
So it is just totally wild imagination, and another piece of BS (even if it may be shared/parroted by many, it is still total BS benefiting only the high profits of the sellers). Then are all of your other opinions on IEMs are similarly credible?
In many fields, a person would totally lose any credibility, but not here.
Highly regrettable. The verdict/diagnosis to the hobby
Do you have any factual evidence for "enhancing upper registers"? You have none, right? Such statements directly contradict basic well-established science (and what can be measured very precisely).
So it just the imagination, and another piece of BS (even uf it may be shared/parroted by many, it is still total BS benefiting only the high profits of the sellers). Then are ,all of your other opinion are similarly credible?
In many fields, a person would totally lose any credibility, but not here.
Highly regrettable. The verdict/diagnosis to the hobby
I'm debating it because there's no functional use in saying you "need" a $3000 dap. Nobody "needs" that. If it brings out the last 1,5,10% of the performance an IEM can produce and you want it because you personally can't unheard the difference, that's a fair statement to make.
Not a single person on this planet NEEDS a $3000 dap. It is a purely luxury item. And that is okay. I just push back against the idea that anything that costs as much as a house mortgage in the US is described as a necessity.
DAP's will always be a more niche product than dongles as there is a higher bar of entry due to their cost. But in my way of listening to music they are essential.
When I want to listen to music on the go, I've got a hand full of sources in my collection to choose out of when I want to listen to my IEM's and headphones on the go.
Left: FiiO X7 Mk.II (AM3E) | Middle Top: Hidizs AP80 Pro, FiiO BTR3 | Middle Bottom: Tanchjim Space, Ugreen USB Dongle (24bit/96KHz), Sony SBH24 | Right: TRI TK-2
My preference has always been DAP's, part of that is because that is where my journey started. At the time I was looking for a music player to use while travelling as my old phone (good ol' Samsung Galaxy Alpha) wouldn't last the day if listening to music and the headphone jack had gone bad. One thing leads to another and after some tryouts I ended up with the FiiO X7 Mk.II. Yes, I did go right off the deep end and got FiiO's (at the time) flagship player.
I like not needing to take my phone anywhere to listen to music and as I do move about a lot, dongles and DAC Amps aren't ideal to put it mildly. They definitely have their uses, but only a DAP (or MP3 player) will give me uninterrupted listening to music, no random disconnects when I move and it also won't drain my phone.
By no means am I an authority on any DAP's (or any other source component), but these are my thoughts after owning, using and having listened to a variety of DAP's.
Over the years I've tried multiple DAP's across a variety of price points and I do have to agree with some here in the tread that high end DAP's are the sweet spot.
Mid-range [€300 - €650]
FiiO M9 €349
iBasso DX170 €449
FiiO X5 Gen III €499
Hiby R6 €599
High end [€650 - €1500]
FiiO M11 Plus ESS €699
FiiO X7 Mk.II €749
Astell&Kern A&Norma SR15 €799
Shanling M7 €1299
TOTL [€1500+]
Astell&Kern A&Ultima SP3000 €4299
Entry level DAP's are great if you just want something to store your music on, when on the go or in the gym. They are usually small and have enough battery life to easily make it through a day. But they are heavily limited in their features, most don't run Android and they can have a max song limit. Their output power is fairly low and they might have a little roll-off in the upper treble. Unless you really want something small to take with you on the go, I'd advise investing in a dongle as they've basically made entry level DAP's obsolete.
Mid-range DAP's are the work horses of the DAP world. While still cheap enough that one can justify getting it, they are full featured and recently their performance has gotten really good. They are great to use while traveling or at work (if it's allowed) and most will make it through a day of use without needing a recharge. Almost all of the restrictions seen in the entry level segment are gone, but they usually don't quite have the power of the high end DAP's. There are some exceptions like the DX160/170 having 6.4 Vrms (1280 mW @32Ω) out of the 4.4 mm which most high end DAP's won't even reach. But all that performance at these prices does come at a cost, usually in the build quality and/or poor optimization of the OS. While they don't have a bad build quality, they definitely leave things to be desired when it comes to the longevity of some of the components like volume wheels etc. but YMMV.
While dongles can achieve similar sound quality to mid-range DAP's, they can't match their power output. And this is down to (android) devices usually limiting usb attached devices to a max of 500 mW (5 V, 100 mA) of power. This is why so many dongles claim 230 mW as their output power. It doesn't mean that producers claiming more power are lying, they can be capable of more, but it won't be while powered purely by a phone or tablet. As usual exceptions apply, I think this can be adjusted in the developer options on some flagship devices.
High end DAP's take things to a whole other level. They might not sound that different if at all to the midrange DAP's in sound signature (usually dead flat) but the technical aspects are on a whole other level. Dynamics, detail retrieval, imaging and especially the soundstage improve drastically. Even my non audiphile ex gf noticed a big difference in these aspects. While their feature set (OS, SOC, screen etc.) is barely different from the mid-range DAP's, and that can make them a tough sell, these DAP's can get the most out of whatever you want to use them with. They are built to last... well most of them at least. FiiO's older models all have problems with the volume wheels after years of use. That was part of the reason why they were cheaper than their competition at the time and also the reason I need to replace my X7 Mk.II. Newer FiiO devices seem a lot better build so I wouldn't worry much about it anymore.
TOTL DAP's are generally the most feature rich and best sounding devices. Build like a tank and using the best components available, they truly are magnificent devices. My experiences with TOTL DAP's is limited to only the SP3000 and while I cannot deny that it's the best sounding DAP I've ever had the pleasure of using, the gap between it and my X7 Mk.II in sound quality is small. With the differences being really small between TOTL and high end, TOTL often only being better in niche use cases, I would never advise anyone to get a TOTL. But I won't stop them either, it's their choice in the end and there really is no (portable) substitute.
I probably will never own a TOTL DAP as I can't justify their price, and I'm not exactly rich. But it's good that they are out there as their technology and innovations slowly but surely trickles down to the lower segments. The upcoming Astell&Kern A&Norma SR35 for instance uses the same amplifier technology as the A&Futura and A&Ultima, being the first A&Norma to make use of this technology. There are more examples of this in the past and there will be more in the future.
For now I'm just looking for a replacement of the X7 Mk.II, which will probably be either the Astell&Kern A&Norma SR35 or the Shanling M6 Ultra.
Later in the year I'll probably also get a mid-range unit to use at work as the AP80's limitations are starting to bother me from time to time.
Not a cable war, but the issue with the absence of credibility (to which you tried to allude a lot) with non-credible statements purely based on wild imagination.
"Psychoacoustic perception" has nothing to do with credibility - imagine two persons perceiving it totally opposite, akin to classical satire of "believers" by Jonathan Swift with regards to how one must break the eggs...
The credibility is in factual reproducible evidence, not wild imagination.
Not a cable war, but the issue with the absence of credibility (to which you tried to allude a lot) with non-credible statements purely based on wild imagination.
"Psychoacoustic perception" has nothing to do with credibility - imagine two persons perceiving it totally opposite, akin to classical satire of "believers" by Jonathan Swift about how one must break the eggs...
The credibility is in factual reproducible evidence, not wild imagination.
From the stone age, the review for audio gadgets are subjective experience shared by a mean of writing or oral communication.
I’m sharing my experience and many seemed to agree with their own experience over the same item, so as far as that ”sharing experience” objective is fulfilled by a large portion, I think there is nothing more to concern about technical background.
If that subjective experience is not widely accepted among the audiences, that’s where the reviewer seemed to lose credibility IMO.
I’m also eager to try the SR35 when it arrives at my local hifi store. The SP2000T has been one heck of a listening experience, but the weight and price are insane. SR35 is not cheap, but might be more justifiable. Will compare with my M6U when I can.
DAP's will always be a more niche product than dongles as there is a higher bar of entry due to their cost. But in my way of listening to music they are essential.
When I want to listen to music on the go, I've got a hand full of sources in my collection to choose out of when I want to listen to my IEM's and headphones on the go.
Left: FiiO X7 Mk.II (AM3E) | Middle Top: Hidizs AP80 Pro, FiiO BTR3 | Middle Bottom: Tanchjim Space, Ugreen USB Dongle (24bit/96KHz), Sony SBH24 | Right: TRI TK-2
My preference has always been DAP's, part of that is because that is where my journey started. At the time I was looking for a music player to use while travelling as my old phone (good ol' Samsung Galaxy Alpha) wouldn't last the day if listening to music and the headphone jack had gone bad. One thing leads to another and after some tryouts I ended up with the FiiO X7 Mk.II. Yes, I did go right off the deep end and got FiiO's (at the time) flagship player.
I like not needing to take my phone anywhere to listen to music and as I do move about a lot, dongles and DAC Amps aren't ideal to put it mildly. They definitely have their uses, but only a DAP (or MP3 player) will give me uninterrupted listening to music, no random disconnects when I move and it also won't drain my phone.
By no means am I an authority on any DAP's (or any other source component), but these are my thoughts after owning, using and having listened to a variety of DAP's.
Over the years I've tried multiple DAP's across a variety of price points and I do have to agree with some here in the tread that high end DAP's are the sweet spot.
Mid-range [€300 - €650]
FiiO M9 €349
iBasso DX170 €449
FiiO X5 Gen III €499
Hiby R6 €599
High end [€650 - €1500]
FiiO M11 Plus ESS €699
FiiO X7 Mk.II €749
Astell&Kern A&Norma SR15 €799
Shanling M7 €1299
TOTL [€1500+]
Astell&Kern A&Ultima SP3000 €4299
Entry level DAP's are great if you just want something to store your music on, when on the go or in the gym. They are usually small and have enough battery life to easily make it through a day. But they are heavily limited in their features, most don't run Android and they can have a max song limit. Their output power is fairly low and they might have a little roll-off in the upper treble. Unless you really want something small to take with you on the go, I'd advise investing in a dongle as they've basically made entry level DAP's obsolete.
Mid-range DAP's are the work horses of the DAP world. While still cheap enough that one can justify getting it, they are full featured and recently their performance has gotten really good. They are great to use while traveling or at work (if it's allowed) and most will make it through a day of use without needing a recharge. Almost all of the restrictions seen in the entry level segment are gone, but they usually don't quite have the power of the high end DAP's. There are some exceptions like the DX160/170 having 6.4 Vrms (1280 mW @32Ω) out of the 4.4 mm which most high end DAP's won't even reach. But all that performance at these prices does come at a cost, usually in the build quality and/or poor optimization of the OS. While they don't have a bad build quality, they definitely leave things to be desired when it comes to the longevity of some of the components like volume wheels etc. but YMMV.
While dongles can achieve similar sound quality to mid-range DAP's, they can't match their power output. And this is down to (android) devices usually limiting usb attached devices to a max of 500 mW (5 V, 100 mA) of power. This is why so many dongles claim 230 mW as their output power. It doesn't mean that producers claiming more power are lying, they can be capable of more, but it won't be while powered purely by a phone or tablet. As usual exceptions apply, I think this can be adjusted in the developer options on some flagship devices.
High end DAP's take things to a whole other level. They might not sound that different if at all to the midrange DAP's in sound signature (usually dead flat) but the technical aspects are on a whole other level. Dynamics, detail retrieval, imaging and especially the soundstage improve drastically. Even my non audiphile ex gf noticed a big difference in these aspects. While their feature set (OS, SOC, screen etc.) is barely different from the mid-range DAP's, and that can make them a tough sell, these DAP's can get the most out of whatever you want to use them with. They are built to last... well most of them at least. FiiO's older models all have problems with the volume wheels after years of use. That was part of the reason why they were cheaper than their competition at the time and also the reason I need to replace my X7 Mk.II. Newer FiiO devices seem a lot better build so I wouldn't worry much about it anymore.
TOTL DAP's are generally the most feature rich and best sounding devices. Build like a tank and using the best components available, they truly are magnificent devices. My experiences with TOTL DAP's is limited to only the SP3000 and while I cannot deny that it's the best sounding DAP I've ever had the pleasure of using, the gap between it and my X7 Mk.II in sound quality is small. With the differences being really small between TOTL and high end, TOTL often only being better in niche use cases, I would never advise anyone to get a TOTL. But I won't stop them either, it's their choice in the end and there really is no (portable) substitute.
I probably will never own a TOTL DAP as I can't justify their price, and I'm not exactly rich. But it's good that they are out there as their technology and innovations slowly but surely trickles down to the lower segments. The upcoming Astell&Kern A&Norma SR35 for instance uses the same amplifier technology as the A&Futura and A&Ultima, being the first A&Norma to make use of this technology. There are more examples of this in the past and there will be more in the future.
For now I'm just looking for a replacement of the X7 Mk.II, which will probably be either the Astell&Kern A&Norma SR35 or the Shanling M6 Ultra.
Later in the year I'll probably also get a mid-range unit to use at work as the AP80's limitations are starting to bother me from time to time.
And I have two new start ups specifically on my radar,
Lifelike: Ex-Camera/Copier company engineer, starting his own project. Looks like he knows what he is dealing with.
Starry Audio: HK based startup, no details yet except an IEM called Yoru (Night in Japanese). I’m following this owner’s private twitter Stanley TAI, and know he just got on the flight from HK to Japan. Hope Starry to be fair in asking price. (looking at you HK-based Aroma Audio)
He is flying overseas in achieving his dream right now.
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