takato14
Headphoneus Supremus
exactly, I love "basslight" headphones
my favorite headphone is an unbearably bright clamp machine to most people, but I adore it
Rank the Headphones that You Own.
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exactly, I love "basslight" headphones
my favorite headphone is an unbearably bright clamp machine to most people, but I adore it
elvergun
Headphoneus Supremus
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takato14
Headphoneus Supremus
note the air quotes
by basslight I mean headphones with bass that is extremely controlled and clean to the point where it is entirely devoid of bloom or "felt bass"; most people call this "stat-like bass" because electrostats inherently have this control whereas it is an extremely rare thing in dynamics and even planars
the Sony DR-Z7 has this quality, and the Fostex T50v1 and its variants (NAD RP18, Sansui SS-100) have it as well
the SA5000, Q701, HD600, HD800, etc are all fart machines to my ears; the F1 is probably no exception, I don't see how else it could even have bass with the driver that far away from the ear
BruinAnteater
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Price Not a Factor:
Sennheiser HD700
Sennheiser HD650
Sennheiser Amperior
Sennheiser Momentum Over Ear
Sennheiser Momentum On Ear
Sennheiser PX360
Sennheiser HD449
Sennheiser HD429
Sennheiser HD414
Sennheiser HD410 SL
Beats Solo - Really my neice's Beats, but they were left behind so I claimed them.
I rate the HD414 higher than the HD410SL because my Schiit Asgard 2 is able to drive the 414s to a loud level, while the 410SL's basically laugh at my A2. At like for like volumes, the HD410SLs have the better sound, but those volumes are too low for me for me to REALLY get into the music. I get the feeling that if I bought a Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2 then things might change. But or now, this is based on having a Schiit A2 and UberForst.
In the end, all my modern headphones sound better than these two little vintage Senns...cept for the beats. Now thats not me being a Beats hater, rather the HD414 and HD410SL are the inverse of the Beats: good highs and mids, nice seperation and detail, but absolutely NO bottom end to speak of...I mean NONE. If I 'make them' closed back by using my hands, the sound improves tremendously.
The Beats have bass, but that all it has, however, what truly kills the Beats is that the bass sounds totally artificial: the bass sounds like the bass you get from 'bass boost,' where you get a bump in bass, but its kinda sloppy and it completely muddles up the mids and highs. The Beats have ZERO, NO seperation, clarity or detail, its just bass. Im surprised that the HD429s truly sound much better than the Beats, the only prob with that is that the HD429s and 449s (the only modern cans on the list that have a comparable MSRP to Beats) do require much more juice than the Beats, so I can see how Beats MIGHT be more satisfying to people if they dont have some sort of amp.
Price (price of headphone + any additional equipment required to make can sound good) IS a Factor:
Sennheiser Amperior (paid $200 - nothing else required, this is plug and play goodness)
Sennheiser HD650 (paid $365 - just needs raw power to sound good, yes it scales up wonderfully, but you truly dont need more the a Fiio E9 to justify the price.)
Sennheiser HD700 (paid $650 - needs power, but refined power, and also requires the right DAC. I mainly use it with my Asgard 2/UberForst but it works just fine on a FiiO X3+Modi combo, so I guess a Modi+Magni would be good too, which is about $200)
Sennheiser PX360 (paid $125 - just needs a lil more power than most portable devices can deliver, a Fiio E7 would do)
Sennheiser Momentum Over Ear (paid $350 - nothing else required, this is plug and play goodness)
Sennheiser Momentum On Ear (paid $200 - nothing else required, this is plug and play goodness)
Sennheiser HD429 (paid $40 - just needs a lil more power than most portable devices can deliver, a Fiio E7 would do)
Sennheiser HD449 (paid $89 - just needs a lil more power than most portable devices can deliver, a Fiio E7 would do)
Sennheiser HD414 (paid $25+$10 for new pads - A2 drives it well enough, prob would do well with a Valhalla 2...a bit of warmth from tubes would do it right)
Sennheiser HD410SL (paid $38+$10 for new pads - Laughs at my A2, no less than a Valhalla 2 would do, interested in seeing what it can do with a Lyr 2...a bit of warmth from tubes would do it right)
Beats Solo (paid nothing, but MSRP is $150 nothing else required, cuz it aint gonna make a difference)
When you factor in the price of the headphone AND the price of the equipment needed to make it sound good, things change. I can honestly say that if all I had was an onboard sounds on my desktop and lap top, if all I had was my phone as my DAP, and I only had $350 to spend, I would gladly pay $350 (original MSRP) for the Amperiors: they are AWESOME on ANY setup. It's not unheard of getting the HD650 from sub $400 dollars, so spending another $80 or so on an E9/E9K would make for some good listening, and truly put you into a different level of quality. Yes, the HD650s do scale up nicely, and the will get better with better equipment, but If all I had was about $450 to spend on gear, id buy the HD650 and an E9, in fact I used my HD650s like this for over 2 years, and it was always great.
The HD700s are truly the best sounding headphones I use, but they are damn picky with equipment. They dont require the same amount of power as the HD650s do (they can be driven very very easily by a Fiio X3 on its own), but if that power isn't refined, if your DAC isn't compatible with the HD700 sound signature, then the cans sound dull, lifeless, maybe even painful and downright disappointing. With the proper equipment though (they sound good with an X3 and Modi, and I have read that people really like the Modi+Magni combo for these cans, they are SUBLIME with the A2+Uberfrost), they truly just blow everything else that I have out of the water, they are awesome. However $650+$250 (A2)+$450 (Uberfrost) = $1350, which is not a light investment, even $650+$200 (Modi+Magni)= $850 is quite a lot to invest in on a whim. When you can get great sound for about $450 from an HD650 and E9, I dont think the HD700 with MM or A2-UF is 2 or 3 times as good; it is BETTER, but not 2x-3x better. I think thats the point where the diminishing returns on investment start to show: if you go for an HD700, then you are trying to get a better product, even if the price isn't scaling linearly anymore. I am still happy with the HD700, I am very happy I bought these headphones and the required components, but I'd be lying if I said it was 2x as good as the HD650
The PX360s I think were $199 MSRP, but I got them for $125 when they came out; now that they are discontinued, you could get them for well below $100 (I think ive seen them for $60). At those prices, plus the cost of an E7 or E7K, these are just an awesome bargain. They don't have the bass impact of the Momentums, and dont have the detail of the Amperiors, plus the DO require some amping, but again, with a small investment, the sound quality is near the level (say a tier below) of the Momentums Over Ear and Amperiors, and probably right on par with the Momentum On-Ears. These are like the Amperior Lights, or Diet Amperiors in terms of sound signature and quality. If you can find these for less than $100, and you need 'cheaper' headphones, I truly dont see why youd consider anything else. These are just good ass headphones.
From here on, things get a bit pedestrian. The HD429 are damn fine sounding headphones for the 'cheapy' tier, and the HD449 are good, but not great at their price level. THey are both basically 'serviceable' and make fine headphones for situations where messing up a pair of cans isn't unheard of (think working out, fishing, working outside, etc). The only drawback is that I do feel they could use some amping if you are using them with your phones, or most DAPs.
I didn't want to be so harsh on the Beats. I remember when I first head them I didnt think the were so bad: i liked their bass, and just figured they were OK cans for people who didnt know better and prop listened strictly to hip hop, and nothing but. I listen to ALOT of hip hop, and I have listened to it on all my headphones, and now, I truly dont think these cans are good for that genre. Good hip hop has a lot of layers, it has a lot textures and a lot of layered sounds, its not just about hitting the bass hard, hip hop with great MCs require that the MCs voice comes through clear, we want to hear the voice of the rapper, all of that is lost with the Beats, and all we get is 'bass boost' sounding bass, everything else is lost!
True enough, the HD429/449 may not be the funnest cans to listen to hip hop in terms of bass, but in terms of appreciating a well crafted hip hop song (think A Tribe Called Quest, or The Chronic/2000, or Doggystyle), they do the job better than Beats. Both cans can be had with an E7 for about the same price or less than Beats.
As far as the Vintage cans go, I will save any commentary on them. I am really curious to see what these cans can do on an LP or reel to reel or cassette, with a tube amp. They not only need warmth, but need power. I dont think I could listen to these for too long on modern digital recordings, especially hi-rez stuff, I think these cans would actually sound BETTER on sources and amps that are not as 'clean', but warmer, with a little bit of hiss and background noise. I think they would do well to replicate a true vintage, nostalgic sound.
Sennheiser HD700
Sennheiser HD650
Sennheiser Amperior
Sennheiser Momentum Over Ear
Sennheiser Momentum On Ear
Sennheiser PX360
Sennheiser HD449
Sennheiser HD429
Sennheiser HD414
Sennheiser HD410 SL
Beats Solo - Really my neice's Beats, but they were left behind so I claimed them.
I rate the HD414 higher than the HD410SL because my Schiit Asgard 2 is able to drive the 414s to a loud level, while the 410SL's basically laugh at my A2. At like for like volumes, the HD410SLs have the better sound, but those volumes are too low for me for me to REALLY get into the music. I get the feeling that if I bought a Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2 then things might change. But or now, this is based on having a Schiit A2 and UberForst.
In the end, all my modern headphones sound better than these two little vintage Senns...cept for the beats. Now thats not me being a Beats hater, rather the HD414 and HD410SL are the inverse of the Beats: good highs and mids, nice seperation and detail, but absolutely NO bottom end to speak of...I mean NONE. If I 'make them' closed back by using my hands, the sound improves tremendously.
The Beats have bass, but that all it has, however, what truly kills the Beats is that the bass sounds totally artificial: the bass sounds like the bass you get from 'bass boost,' where you get a bump in bass, but its kinda sloppy and it completely muddles up the mids and highs. The Beats have ZERO, NO seperation, clarity or detail, its just bass. Im surprised that the HD429s truly sound much better than the Beats, the only prob with that is that the HD429s and 449s (the only modern cans on the list that have a comparable MSRP to Beats) do require much more juice than the Beats, so I can see how Beats MIGHT be more satisfying to people if they dont have some sort of amp.
Price (price of headphone + any additional equipment required to make can sound good) IS a Factor:
Sennheiser Amperior (paid $200 - nothing else required, this is plug and play goodness)
Sennheiser HD650 (paid $365 - just needs raw power to sound good, yes it scales up wonderfully, but you truly dont need more the a Fiio E9 to justify the price.)
Sennheiser HD700 (paid $650 - needs power, but refined power, and also requires the right DAC. I mainly use it with my Asgard 2/UberForst but it works just fine on a FiiO X3+Modi combo, so I guess a Modi+Magni would be good too, which is about $200)
Sennheiser PX360 (paid $125 - just needs a lil more power than most portable devices can deliver, a Fiio E7 would do)
Sennheiser Momentum Over Ear (paid $350 - nothing else required, this is plug and play goodness)
Sennheiser Momentum On Ear (paid $200 - nothing else required, this is plug and play goodness)
Sennheiser HD429 (paid $40 - just needs a lil more power than most portable devices can deliver, a Fiio E7 would do)
Sennheiser HD449 (paid $89 - just needs a lil more power than most portable devices can deliver, a Fiio E7 would do)
Sennheiser HD414 (paid $25+$10 for new pads - A2 drives it well enough, prob would do well with a Valhalla 2...a bit of warmth from tubes would do it right)
Sennheiser HD410SL (paid $38+$10 for new pads - Laughs at my A2, no less than a Valhalla 2 would do, interested in seeing what it can do with a Lyr 2...a bit of warmth from tubes would do it right)
Beats Solo (paid nothing, but MSRP is $150 nothing else required, cuz it aint gonna make a difference)
When you factor in the price of the headphone AND the price of the equipment needed to make it sound good, things change. I can honestly say that if all I had was an onboard sounds on my desktop and lap top, if all I had was my phone as my DAP, and I only had $350 to spend, I would gladly pay $350 (original MSRP) for the Amperiors: they are AWESOME on ANY setup. It's not unheard of getting the HD650 from sub $400 dollars, so spending another $80 or so on an E9/E9K would make for some good listening, and truly put you into a different level of quality. Yes, the HD650s do scale up nicely, and the will get better with better equipment, but If all I had was about $450 to spend on gear, id buy the HD650 and an E9, in fact I used my HD650s like this for over 2 years, and it was always great.
The HD700s are truly the best sounding headphones I use, but they are damn picky with equipment. They dont require the same amount of power as the HD650s do (they can be driven very very easily by a Fiio X3 on its own), but if that power isn't refined, if your DAC isn't compatible with the HD700 sound signature, then the cans sound dull, lifeless, maybe even painful and downright disappointing. With the proper equipment though (they sound good with an X3 and Modi, and I have read that people really like the Modi+Magni combo for these cans, they are SUBLIME with the A2+Uberfrost), they truly just blow everything else that I have out of the water, they are awesome. However $650+$250 (A2)+$450 (Uberfrost) = $1350, which is not a light investment, even $650+$200 (Modi+Magni)= $850 is quite a lot to invest in on a whim. When you can get great sound for about $450 from an HD650 and E9, I dont think the HD700 with MM or A2-UF is 2 or 3 times as good; it is BETTER, but not 2x-3x better. I think thats the point where the diminishing returns on investment start to show: if you go for an HD700, then you are trying to get a better product, even if the price isn't scaling linearly anymore. I am still happy with the HD700, I am very happy I bought these headphones and the required components, but I'd be lying if I said it was 2x as good as the HD650
The PX360s I think were $199 MSRP, but I got them for $125 when they came out; now that they are discontinued, you could get them for well below $100 (I think ive seen them for $60). At those prices, plus the cost of an E7 or E7K, these are just an awesome bargain. They don't have the bass impact of the Momentums, and dont have the detail of the Amperiors, plus the DO require some amping, but again, with a small investment, the sound quality is near the level (say a tier below) of the Momentums Over Ear and Amperiors, and probably right on par with the Momentum On-Ears. These are like the Amperior Lights, or Diet Amperiors in terms of sound signature and quality. If you can find these for less than $100, and you need 'cheaper' headphones, I truly dont see why youd consider anything else. These are just good ass headphones.
From here on, things get a bit pedestrian. The HD429 are damn fine sounding headphones for the 'cheapy' tier, and the HD449 are good, but not great at their price level. THey are both basically 'serviceable' and make fine headphones for situations where messing up a pair of cans isn't unheard of (think working out, fishing, working outside, etc). The only drawback is that I do feel they could use some amping if you are using them with your phones, or most DAPs.
I didn't want to be so harsh on the Beats. I remember when I first head them I didnt think the were so bad: i liked their bass, and just figured they were OK cans for people who didnt know better and prop listened strictly to hip hop, and nothing but. I listen to ALOT of hip hop, and I have listened to it on all my headphones, and now, I truly dont think these cans are good for that genre. Good hip hop has a lot of layers, it has a lot textures and a lot of layered sounds, its not just about hitting the bass hard, hip hop with great MCs require that the MCs voice comes through clear, we want to hear the voice of the rapper, all of that is lost with the Beats, and all we get is 'bass boost' sounding bass, everything else is lost!
True enough, the HD429/449 may not be the funnest cans to listen to hip hop in terms of bass, but in terms of appreciating a well crafted hip hop song (think A Tribe Called Quest, or The Chronic/2000, or Doggystyle), they do the job better than Beats. Both cans can be had with an E7 for about the same price or less than Beats.
As far as the Vintage cans go, I will save any commentary on them. I am really curious to see what these cans can do on an LP or reel to reel or cassette, with a tube amp. They not only need warmth, but need power. I dont think I could listen to these for too long on modern digital recordings, especially hi-rez stuff, I think these cans would actually sound BETTER on sources and amps that are not as 'clean', but warmer, with a little bit of hiss and background noise. I think they would do well to replicate a true vintage, nostalgic sound.
robthebiggerman
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From lowest to highest rating in traditional count down form.
Ratting different kinds of headphones that are intended for different uses in different applications is difficult as it's comparing apples and oranges in some cases. Buuut here we go anyway...
12.Bludio r+ bluetooth headphones.
Look like beats....multiple divers...bass bass bass Nothin else. Good for crapy movies without wires.
11.Sennheiser HD430
10. Sennheiser HD450
Both very similar but the 450 has slightly more bass especially with akg171 pads. And the 450 have a slightly higher output.
9.Sennheiser HD480
These need a warm source or they are a pit sterile, I have a 70s nikko reciver that I drive these from that's a nice match.
8.AKG 271
7.AKG 141
As much as I like the closed back 271 I feel the mids are a little recessed and the highs are a little more brittle than the open back 141.
6.Pioneer SE-L201 with akg171 drivers.
These frankinstien sound better and look better than the 141.
5.AKG K99
These also benefit from a warm source but as for clarity, in the mids and highs are some of the best bang for your buck headphones you can get. Lacking in bass response but great for acoustic stuff and jazz...classical ect.
4.Beyerdynamic dt770
Capable closed back that's quite balanced with good isolation.
3.Sennheiser HD25
Best compromise for isolation and audio quality. Great for on the go. Compact too.
2.Sennheiser HD250 linear II
Best closed back headphone I've heard. So accurate and balanced and surprisingly open. I have dt770 pads that help tame the bass and give it an incredibly even frequency response. These are probably my most used headphones even if they don't take out top ranking.
1.Hifi man HE 400
Open open open back orthodynamic headphone. Easy to drive. Separation and articulation is divine so is the bass reproduction...much like open baffle dipole loud speakers. Definite favorite but limited in application due to isolation.
Ratting different kinds of headphones that are intended for different uses in different applications is difficult as it's comparing apples and oranges in some cases. Buuut here we go anyway...
12.Bludio r+ bluetooth headphones.
Look like beats....multiple divers...bass bass bass Nothin else. Good for crapy movies without wires.
11.Sennheiser HD430
10. Sennheiser HD450
Both very similar but the 450 has slightly more bass especially with akg171 pads. And the 450 have a slightly higher output.
9.Sennheiser HD480
These need a warm source or they are a pit sterile, I have a 70s nikko reciver that I drive these from that's a nice match.
8.AKG 271
7.AKG 141
As much as I like the closed back 271 I feel the mids are a little recessed and the highs are a little more brittle than the open back 141.
6.Pioneer SE-L201 with akg171 drivers.
These frankinstien sound better and look better than the 141.
5.AKG K99
These also benefit from a warm source but as for clarity, in the mids and highs are some of the best bang for your buck headphones you can get. Lacking in bass response but great for acoustic stuff and jazz...classical ect.
4.Beyerdynamic dt770
Capable closed back that's quite balanced with good isolation.
3.Sennheiser HD25
Best compromise for isolation and audio quality. Great for on the go. Compact too.
2.Sennheiser HD250 linear II
Best closed back headphone I've heard. So accurate and balanced and surprisingly open. I have dt770 pads that help tame the bass and give it an incredibly even frequency response. These are probably my most used headphones even if they don't take out top ranking.
1.Hifi man HE 400
Open open open back orthodynamic headphone. Easy to drive. Separation and articulation is divine so is the bass reproduction...much like open baffle dipole loud speakers. Definite favorite but limited in application due to isolation.
takato14
Headphoneus Supremus
Yes, really. The Z7 gives me all of the bass and none of the B/S, and I can't say that about any of those headphones I mentioned.
The HD600 was loose, diffuse, and bloomy, the HD800 was much of the same (to a slightly lesser degree), the SA5000 was just a mess, and the Q701 was about the same as the HD800 but slightly less diffused
And they were all extremely well amped so don't try to play that card
Androb
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So you are saying Audeze/hifiman is fart machines aswell?
takato14
Headphoneus Supremus
Haven't had a chance to hear them yet, but measurements suggest they are (though to a much lesser degree than the dynamics I listed)
Exceptions are the LCD-3, HE-6, and Abyss, all of which exhibit absurdly good control on the 30Hz wave
keep in mind we are only talking about bass here -- the Z7 has numerous weaknesses too
also woo 2200'th post
Androb
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Alright I were just curious. I don't agree on the fart machine stuff, but some of them have bass that doesn't sound completly natural tho imo (the ones you listed in the first post I responded too).
And congrats
nehcrow
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Alright I were just curious. I don't agree on the fart machine stuff, but some of them have bass that doesn't sound completly natural tho imo (the ones you listed in the first post I responded too).
And congrats
None of the headphones he listed are 'fart machines' by any stretch of the imagination (mind you HD600 is a bit loose but euphonic as hell)
Planars have the best bass presentation I've heard by far, just feeling the impact brings my music enjoyment up to the next level (needs to be tight bass though)
Androb
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Double response, stupid cellphone
Androb
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Yea I know, I know. Just curious about his statement
stuzzyapple
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#1 Sennheiser HD 600
#2 DT990 Premium
#3 AKG k701
#4 Beyer DT 880
#5AKG k550
Have lots more but that's my top 5
#2 DT990 Premium
#3 AKG k701
#4 Beyer DT 880
#5AKG k550
Have lots more but that's my top 5
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May change - especially as there is the "newly purchased" factor with the T1 (honeymoon phase
)
#1 Beyer T1
#2 Senn HD700
#3 Senn HD600
#4 Beyer DT880
#5 Dunu DN-1000
#6 BA100
Still use all of the above regularly though.
#1 Beyer T1
#2 Senn HD700
#3 Senn HD600
#4 Beyer DT880
#5 Dunu DN-1000
#6 BA100
Still use all of the above regularly though.
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