[rhythmdevils]

Yeah, thanks fellas.  And nice work Don, Scompton and LFF!  And Tyll!!

 

[nick n]

hahah excellent work guys.  Told you those Aiwas would win Kabeer! And RD those graphs look almost ruler-straight perfect!
 
I'm actually GLAD to have gotten 3rd worst measuring"with stuff all over the map " with those V1 Alders, because honestly I agree!
At the time I sent them in they sounded like tin cans. That's why they have been completely redone all new damping method and pads.This way it will ( should  ) be more of a contrast with improvements, Can't wait to send them back. Waiting on one more small tweak for the Hackamichis, then all the same 4 with new damping and pads off again to Tyll.
 
Congrats to all!
And yes thanks to Tyll also not so much for the contest aspect, which is incredibly generous as it is,  but for taking the time to help out with the measurements.

 

[khbaur330162]

 
Quote:

Chi-uni-fi sounds like a secret fraternity, but I'd pledge if I were you. Besides, you already live there. So just go and attend the hell out of it.
 
Moving drivers forward increases separation? do you mean they'd start to approach the Sigma's headstage?
 
I have both their albums. RSQ. Great band. But yeah, why not a DIY Sigma? There's always something unnatural about headphones always clinging to your ears like some alien with an earlobe fetish. I can easily appreciate Naotake Hayashi's frustration with headphones always feeling and sounding like #$% headphones, no matter how good you made the driver.
 

I might attend, I might not. Haven't decided. I'd honestly just go to meet people, chit chat and maybe cop of feel of Ray's R10's, or something.
 
Not even close. Ime, and this doesn't sound like many people agree, moving drivers forward like that makes L/R separation way too extreme. Judging by your comment I'd say you agree with me in that almost no matter what you do stereo separation is the bane of any headphone's existence. As much as I like the idea of crossfeed the closest I've come to actually thinking it was worth two cents was with ceetoole's custom tilt eq thing he built that I regret ever selling. I honestly don't know if speakers will ever happen, although I'd really like to.

I will check them out and look him up. Lol. 80% of your posts require Google searches for me. <<< Not at all complaining. 

Do you have signatures turned off or something?  Chi-uni-fi has been in mine for a while now.
 
I think most headphones have a little better depth to the soundstage when I wear them so that the center of the driver is forward of and lower than my ear canal.  The AD1000's driver is held in place by a plastic ring that's kind of deep and I think that putting the YHD-1 driver off center and too close to the edge might end up making some weird reflection or something.
 
Have you tried something like that with other headphones and got too much L/R separation?  My current T50RPs have the drivers very angled and a little forward due to the way the pads are mounted and it makes the soundstage fairly narrow but very deep.  The difference in sound stage when I was A/Bing the AD1000 with the T50RP was startling.  The T50RPs had so much more forward projection that they might as well have been speakers in comparison.  That was only using the crossfeed on my Leckerton UHA-4 and not TB Isone which I normally use for my listening at home.
 
Those pads look nice.  I think memory foam would be a good choice for stuffing.  Its pretty good at absorbing energy and not bouncing.  I have a Tempurpedic bed and if you drop something on to it it hardly bounces at all, even if whatever you dropped is elastic itself.  Something dense and inelastic won't even bounce at all.  If the memory foam I ordered ever comes in I'll tell you how it works out.  My Ultrasuede pads are already stitched up on 3 sides and are just waiting for the foam.
 
The lambskin pads I'm using now have some kind of memory foam in them that works pretty well for keeping that "spring" out of the system.  Its either lower grade, just firmer, or something else though so they don't conform too well to my head.

Nope. Often times I'm like a horse with those blinders on, though. Too much stuff all at once makes me skittish. One dimensional.
 
Go for it. I've tried it with angled drivers and while I want it to work (it makes sense conceptually to me) it always seems to work against me. Ime drivers like to inject sound waves into your ear canals. The T50RP's take obscene amounts of power. Maybe this contributes to your success? I really have no case in my defense, I just haven't had any luck with drivers in front of my ears like that unless they're K1000's. Daaang, you got a Leckerton amp? Nice. I demo'ed the UHA-6 I think it was and was thoroughly impressed by it for the price. At the time there was an iBasso out in almost direct competition and the Leckerton was a noticeably better amp even using an iRiver's optical out. Cheaper, too, I believe. Nice piece of kit for the price. This makes me miss my PPAS. 1/4" jack, too. 

 Did Pavel die?
 
Thanks for the compliment on the pads. I figured memory foam would be the next best thing to gel (maybe even better due to weight... can you imagine a 90mm iso driver with lead filled pads?) and I''ll probably opt out for it unless this ends up being cheaper. I'm sort of angry at myself for not being able to think of a cheap solution to this problem, though. It seems so simple... Like wualta said, "If only I could find the dumpster where people are tossing this stuff out." Sennheiser makes gel pads for their aviation headphones and while the vinyl isn't the best material for hi-fi imo, they seal like you wouldn't believe and are actually cool when you first put them on your head. Surprisingly satisfying. It seems like one of those things where if you got used to it you couldn't ever go back. I bet they get equally warm after hours of use, though. :/
 
Yea, I was worried about that for the gel. I'm very interested in how this next batch turns out for you. All sorts of eyeing your AD1k project.
 
 

Congrats to all!
And yes thanks to Tyll also not so much for the contest aspect, which is incredibly generous as it is,  but for taking the time to help out with the measurements.

+1
Really cool of the guy.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick n /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
And yes thanks to Tyll also not so much for the contest aspect, which is incredibly generous as it is,  but for taking the time to help out with the measurements.

It's a pleasure, mate!
 

 

[maverickronin]

@khbaur330162
 
That kind of gel is really cool.  It's a shame you cant really cut it.  It more or less has to be made in the shape you want it.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

1 )  Ime, and this doesn't sound like many people agree, moving drivers forward like that makes L/R separation way too extreme. Judging by your comment I'd say you agree with me in that almost no matter what you do stereo separation is the bane of any headphone's existence.

2 ) I will check them out and look him up. Lol. 
 
3 ) I figured memory foam would be the next best thing to gel (maybe even better due to weight... can you imagine a 90mm iso driver with lead filled pads?

1 ) Well, it is and it isn't. Over the decades this has become a huge worm of cans, ha ha. Or, if you will, a can of Red Bull full of very excited, opinionated and loud-talking worms primed to tell the world what those opinions are. I think you get the idea. Obviously, if we were recording binaurally, we'd want max separation, even enhanced separation, which is what most people want, a sense that the stage in your head extends beyond it. It's speaker stereo that still doesn't always jell (ha!) on 'phones, but modern producers are doing a better job than producers of say 25 years ago. Still, compared to binaural there are only hints of real acoustic space in most commercial music recordings.
 
2 )  I would listen to a band called Ridiculous Spacial Queuing, too. Just the kind of mugwump I am.
 
3 )  I'm still waiting for a manufacturer to mass-load a foam with something as dense as granulated lead. [read: expensive] So yes.
 
Quote:

It's a pleasure, mate!

 
Likewise. You had a preview of it with RD's Yamaha, but I think you're going to see the Next Step in DIY orthowrangling soon.
 
Richard Saul Wurman, he of TED, said of Charles Eames that he wasn't selling his expertise [to big clients like IBM and Westinghouse], because he had only a limited amount of that. Instead, he'd hit upon the idea of selling his ignorance, thereby making his job one of continuous learning. In other words, he got them to pay him to learn. Imagine the fun of that. That's kind of what we're doing in this thread, minus the money. I hope that's what you're able to do, plus the money. Sounds like it's working so far.

 

[khbaur330162]

 

@khbaur330162
 
That kind of gel is really cool.  It's a shame you cant really cut it.  It more or less has to be made in the shape you want it.

https://www.inventables.com/technologies/cushioning-gel-repair-tape
There's lots of waste cutting it down to form. More would go to the trash than was actually used unless you were creative with scraps somehow.
 
That other impact gel definitely needs a form fitting container, though. It's like a putty/paste along the same vein as the Borax/glue substance I was talking about. Unless you talk to the manufacturer and get them to make custom pads in bulk you'd have to buy a two-ton bucket of the stuff and who knows where you'd be then. 
http://www.amazon.com/Rhode-Island-Black-Barrel-O-Slime/dp/B002842IK6/ref=sr_1_2?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1333975424&sr=1-2
That'd probably be just as good if you could think of a way to encase it. 

Quote:

Likewise. You had a preview of it with RD's Yamaha, but I think you're going to see the Next Step in DIY orthowrangling soon.

Wait. Who's doing what with Next Step Yamaha mods? What do you know that I don't?
 
Btw, enjoyable video.
 
 
Customary random thought: On the subject of measuring headphones, is there anything that replicates human perspiration in a dummy head? My CD850's sound like crud at first, but after a few minutes the pads get slightly tacky which improves, well, everything.
 

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

 
Customary random thought: On the subject of measuring headphones, is there anything that replicates human perspiration in a dummy head? My CD850's sound like crud at first, but after a few minutes the pads get slightly tacky which improves, well, everything.
 

Good point. I sometimes go out for a run and work up a good sweat.  Then I rub my armpits all over the head before I test the DIY cans.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
A little Lysol should fix that up guys.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

[Lurkumaural]

Quote:

Good point. I sometimes go out for a run and work up a good sweat.  Then I rub my armpits all over the head before I test the DIY cans.
 
A little Lysol should fix that up guys.
 

Or leave it.  It would be ideal to "properly replicate test conditions" so you don't have to wonder if your own seal is compromising what Tyll measured.

 

[vid]

More importantly, has the effect of ear wax on the frequency response ever been tested? Surely, enough of it would change the resonant properties of the ear canal (and I'm not joking)?

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

https://www.inventables.com/technologies/cushioning-gel-repair-tape
There's lots of waste cutting it down to form. More would go to the trash than was actually used unless you were creative with scraps somehow.
 
That other impact gel definitely needs a form fitting container, though. It's like a putty/paste along the same vein as the Borax/glue substance I was talking about. Unless you talk to the manufacturer and get them to make custom pads in bulk you'd have to buy a two-ton bucket of the stuff and who knows where you'd be then. 
http://www.amazon.com/Rhode-Island-Black-Barrel-O-Slime/dp/B002842IK6/ref=sr_1_2?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1333975424&sr=1-2
That'd probably be just as good if you could think of a way to encase it.

Interesting...
 
Quote:

Customary random thought: On the subject of measuring headphones, is there anything that replicates human perspiration in a dummy head? My CD850's sound like crud at first, but after a few minutes the pads get slightly tacky which improves, well, everything.

Plus just replicating body temperature.  That's got to be important for anything with memory-ish foam pads or foam IEM tips.

 

[khbaur330162]

Quote:

Plus just replicating body temperature.  That's got to be important for anything with memory-ish foam pads or foam IEM tips.

Agreed.
 
And I wonder if you could record a live musical passage using a binaural dummy, then play that audio clip back through headphones and record the recording using the same dummy, then compare the clips and try to somehow decipher how good a headphone creates a coherent soundscape. Could help with headphone situation, too, to try to get accurate on-head measurements because I know at least I'm really finicky with can placement.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Meguiars-Class-Leather-Vinyl-Cleaner/dp/B004HCM9HE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333993357&sr=8-1
 
That stuff works well.

 

[nick n]

Quote:

Good point. I sometimes go out for a run and work up a good sweat.  Then I rub my armpits all over the head before I test the DIY cans.
A little Lysol should fix that up guys.
 

Just one thing Tyll, and that may make things perfectly ok here.
Is this similar to the " Husk Musk " Kids in the Hall  skit? ( it's on Youtube )

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by khbaur330162 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Wait. Who's doing what with Next Step Yamaha mods? What do you know that I don't?

Probably not a lot, if anything.
 
Imagine, and in imagining this we're going beyond all current experiments known to me, that on your big-company ortho-headphone-of-the-future production line somewhere in Malaysia, already-assembled cups are going by. Wired-up drivers are inside. Somewhere on this line you have a step called "dampening", where each headphone is measured with a hygrometer probe and spritzed with a metered fine mist of water and the wildflower seeds are planted. No, wait. What if there was a step called "damping" where a little needle would enter a hole on the back of each already-assembled cup and inject a metered amount of special self-curing foam that would then expand as polyurethane foam/glue does and completely fill all cup cavities with a material of known (but very proprietary--sssshh) acoustic properties. And maybe it would take two or three separate steps, creating layers of different densities and properties inside the cup, and the final layer seals it.
 
What would we have? Well, we would have eliminated the need for felt, gluing, cutting, all that craft stuff, but more importantly we would have not eliminated but vastly reduced cavity resonances and cup reflections with this thing I'll grandiosely call the Total Foam headphone cup, nonresonant and still lightweight.. There's only one problem. I don't know if there are any liquid injectable foams like this, and if there are, whether they're ferociously toxic, or ferociously expensive. And there's the stone in the shoe. We can approximate this imaginary production line with cut-up sheets and blocks of special foam. People have been experimenting with special foams for years (remember AudioCats and his HP ink-cartridge foam?). The problem has always been cost, cost, cost, and more cost, and oh yeah, availability.
 
If we're building a SOTA (State Of The Art) headphone, no problem.
 
But this production line is making the VolksOrtho, the peoples' high-quality headphone of the future, where demand has made bandwidth so expensive (as it still is, here in the US) that people willing to pay to get good audio files are going to want good headphones to hear what they've paid good money for. There are already some promising prefabricated foams that can be cut by hand to approximately fill the volume of the typical ortho cup.
 
Which brings us down to the DIY level again and the experiments being done by at least a couple of threadsters. The problem, as always, is (assuming the stuff does the job) : can you get it without jumping through rings of fire, and will the cost (including the #$% shipping) make it doable for the average DIYer, because after all, the idea of a foamed interior was to make it foolproof and simple. If we can reach the point of Total Foam, then maybe we can talk someone into telling us whether or not it can be done with injectable liquid. Or, if not, can it be done with custom 3D laser or water-jet cutting of bulk material. And would they please do it and oh by the way make the VolksOrtho Of The Brighter Futurrre.
 
That's all. I'm not askin' much.
 
Quote:

 
Is this similar to the " Husk Musk " Kids in the Hall  skit?

EVERYTHING is similar to a Kids In The Hall skit. Remember, Eames said that eventually everything connects. ...Dave Foley rules, man. Hey, aren't all those guys like Canadian or something?

 

[painter]

I bought my first orthos, a pair of $79 Fostex T50RP's.   Always been a Grado person,  but there is a quality to the midrange that the fostex does very well.  At their price I assume they are the bottom of the barrel as far as orthos go.  I helped them by lining the inside of the cup with craft foam.
 
But not really wanting to try and make a silk purse out of a sows ear could someone recommend an ortho that has the midrange brilliance and bass texture of these fostex with less of the closed in distortion ?  I've been reading about the HE-500 and HE-5LE,  but really confused as to what is a step up in the ortho game for a Grado lover.