[GREQ]

I really don't understand why modding junior models that will never jump to the top 100 and 1000....................??????

- for fun
- because we can

It's also good practice for learning and experimenting.
Also sharing even the bad mods is good because it gives other people new ideas for better mods and materials or just new experiments to try out.

Then when those new methods are tried and tested with good results, it's time to put those results to the test on the higher end models.
Nobody really wants to keep modding their best stuff over and over again, since there's always a small risk when opening them up.

At least that's how I see it.

 

[Philimon]

I really don't understand why modding junior models that will never jump to the top 100 and 1000....................??????

For the same hopeful reasons why I try not to seal the back of the drivers for improved frequency response, its half theoretical and its half audiophile nervosa.

If you look on that other friendly site you can find CSD measurements of YH100 that show that the driver rings like a bell at 2kHz way worse than any other Yam HP/YH. Some people like @dBel84 have put them in custom open wood enclosures hoping that the resonance is cup related but his experiments could not bypass that Grado-like character of ringing at 2kHz.

Back to the cheapos like YH-2. Measurements have shown that the lower tier Yamaha drivers ring less. Reasons are not known but we can guess: less magnetic force and less thick magnets. Perhaps membrane dimensions play a part too changing the amount and place of driver resonance.

Another reason for cheapo YH-2 is theoretical / nervosa. HP|YH-2|3 magnet holes are spaced much closer together (yet smaller). Does this have anything to with why they sound much more even stock vs their bigger brothers? Im purely guessing yes.

YH-2 vs YH-3: YH-2 has a comfier headband, and no front grill for theoretical / nervosa clean front wave. YH-3 has a bigger enclosure which means more bass and extension.

edit: Data is limited and Im no engineer. Just guesses. Experimenting on cheapos is cheaper which is reason number 1.

 

[khbaur330162]

@Philimon Oh, I remember doing something similar with SFI's once, sealing backwave with an epoxy putty puck domed around a damping layer and a small bass port. Was interesting, actually, but I never truly eeked any surmountable bass out of those things, iirc.

I think if YHD series had a 50mm or 55mm driver in the lineup I'd be over the moon for that model. It has sharp attack and treble shimmer kind of how I want my YH-100 to sound. Idk, I performed a bunch of mods on YH-100's, found out the flat sheepskin sounds best now, and they are just... slightly better YH-1's. I need more. YHD's have sort of startled me with their fast attack on certain songs. It's just their image is too small, I get bored with it and go back to HP-1a's or something. There's a vibrancy with YHD's, YH's are smoother and softer to my ear. Anyway, I was rummaging through old measurements and found this:

Yellow line is YH-100 drivers slapped into DR-ZX701ip with no front treatment. Blue line is same headphone, but now with bass lens and disc, pacman front damping, and akasa paxmate lined baffles. Just shaves a few dB's off the midrange, especially 2kHz. They sound very smooth to me. I slapped flat sheepskin pads on them and I sort of dropped all my EQ presets for YH-100. Nowadays I will boost 5-6kHz by 1-2dB to compensate for the dip in the graph, and I will make a 2-4dB bass shelf starting at 160Hz. That's it. Sounds fantastic. Actually smoother in 2kHz region than YH-1 somehow.


@micon I have a pair of HP-50A's. I spent maybe $80 making them in total and they sound pretty fantastic for that price. The detail, the image size, it's not really there compared to even YH-1, but they are darn listenable and if you have a decent portable amp you can walk around the house in those, pretty fun times.

-edit-
Just saw all the talk about YH-100 2kHz ringing. To my ears, YHD's ring at the same exact frequency just as much. YHD's also have this "Grado bite" imho. Saturday Night by Bay City Rollers is extra sibilant on YHD's compared to YH-100's. Both have similar treatments.

 

[Philimon]

Just saw all the talk about YH-100 2kHz ringing. To my ears, YHD's ring at the same exact frequency just as much. YHD's also have this "Grado bite" imho. Saturday Night by Bay City Rollers is extra sibilant on YHD's compared to YH-100's. Both have similar treatments.

Ya. I cant get any Yamaha to a perfectly agreeable state of mod. They all end up compromised in some way. The closest I got was with direct damping to back of driver. But thats been called heresy by some so I stopped following that path of mod. But you know what famous ortho does direct back of driver sealing from factory? Modern T50RP. Most headphone drivers have a paper filter rear side for dust protection and damping.

CSD readings with EARS in my noisy environment are not reliable. When I make a fpc rig for those types of measurements I will test to find where drivers ring stock, and how they react to damping and enclosure mods (including pads). But that’s for later. I am currently over budget and over scheduled on projects… I have HD800 drivers arriving today for a 3DP BP800 enclosure. And then I have some Peerless driver headphone projects to complete. And then I need to troubleshoot my PASS ACA (cold joint somewhere).

 

[khbaur330162]

@Philimon If you ever get that rig up and running I should send you a headphone or two. I think YHD-550's and HP-1a's in DR-ZX701ip frame would be interesting for you to listen to. You always seem to hate YH/HP-1(a) because of tuning, but my HP-1a is just about the smoothest I've gotten these drivers (and maybe these are deserved of their unicorn status... I'm hearing things right now....). And I think you'd get a kick out of YHD-3 drivers with soundstage, haha. The image is small and kinda cute, but they bump, man, there's bass and lots of treble fun. I don't mind the recessed mids at all anymore, Idk what I was on before, probably listening with my graphs instead of my ears. They are a lot of fun, but I do get "tired" of them after like 20 minutes or so, I'll go back to HP-1a's and it's like, okay, idk what the difference is, but this is more refined. YHD's have that initial wow factor though, they are impressively vibrant and smooth at same time, very detailed, mids are gorgeous, probably even better than HP-1a due to resolution here. There's just something about them that rub me the wrong way and make me stop listening, like a grain to the sound after a while I pick up on it. Dunno how else to describe it.

 

[Philimon]

Thanks @khbaur330162 . I would like to test them. Ill send you some to try too. In case I forget remind me. Like I said I dont plan to build the rig very soon. But it is at top of my want list and probably a lot more useful and fun to me than buying another headphone.

 

[micon]

Yes, you can suggest ways to improve different models. but this is only a tenth of what is involved in the final sound. Alas, in the musical perception of compositions there is not, and will not be, a benchmark. And for that reason, we all have different sources. Different DACs. Different cables. Different amplifiers. Different music tracks. And there are many such differences....

 

[Philimon]

Most headphone drivers have a paper filter rear side for dust protection and damping.

HD800 drivers have a tight metal mesh.

 

[Philimon]

@GREQ
Any more info on this Denon SH-90? Fostex T30 driver for sure. Was it inoperable due to crinkly membrane? I dont see measurements in your database.

 

[GREQ]

@GREQ
Any more info on this Denon SH-90? Fostex T30 driver for sure. Was it inoperable due to crinkly membrane? I dont see measurements in your database.

Nah, it sounded just like my Jamo variant, which also has slight crinkles.
All my NAD RP18's also varying crinkles, I think it's just how they all were... just looks WAY worse in that photo because I photoshopped it to emphasize the creases.
Didn't bother measuring it since it sounded identical to the Jamo.

 

[Philimon]

Thanks @GREQ

Here is the Jamo. If you need to sell im always here for you.

 

[khbaur330162]

So I bought some Dekoni Elite Sheepskin ATH-M40x/CD900st pads. They are a little small for DR-ZX701ip but they do fit and don't interfere with the driver or anything as far as I can tell.

I swapped Dekoni pads onto YH-100's. Pretty good match. Brainwavz Sheepskin adds a little brightness. This is good on HP-1A but not the best on YH-100 I'm thinking, even though they are still a really good match. Dekoni pads are so tame I don't need midrange EQ anymore. These sound great flat but I do still like boosting bass and 5-6kHz region due to dip there in the graph. These pads sound like a studio. Takes the edge off of everything, it's all velvety smooth. Must do more listening. Yesterday Dekoni Elite's sounded great on HP-1A's, but today Brainwavz Sheepskin sounds better. Just gotta keep listening and letting my ears develop over time so I get a better sense of all the minute differences. Takes me time, Idk, I have to get through all the good attributes before the bad ones start poking their head, usually uncovered after fiddling with pads and hearing good attributes of something else, but only after hours of listening to the "wrong" configuration.

 

[khbaur330162]

I added two layers of Akasa Paxmate to DR-ZX701ip baffle faces on YH-100's, so directly underneath the pads, all around the drivers basically. Each layer of Paxmate is like 5mm or so tall, so two layers is ~10mm DEPTH. The Elite Sheepskin are 20mm deep and the Brainwavz Oval Sheepskin Flat are 30mmm deep, so two layers of akasa paxmate under Dekoni's should equal out to Brainwavz in pad depth. Soundstage is very nice now, the sort of lost their "studio" feel although still very smooth and velvety sort of, no hints of harshness on YH-100 still. They sound really, really good, imho, finally tamed fully and nice intimate soundstage really close to Brainwavz. Detail better than YH-1 and HP-1A... Minus the 5-6kHz dip, a perfect pinched Ortho, imo. If it was Hifiman Arya level detailed, I'd take it, but as is really fun listen, possibly end game, haha.

 

[szerecsen]

Thanks @GREQ

Here is the Jamo. If you need to sell im always here for you.

Hello people, I am a bit confused here. I always thought those cans (jamo, denon, gdhs 223, concept ce-h) to be using the fostex t20 driver and not the one from the t30. Was I wrong for so many years? Thanks

 

[GREQ]

Hello people, I am a bit confused here. I always thought those cans (jamo, denon, gdhs 223, concept ce-h) to be using the fostex t20 driver and not the one from the t30. Was I wrong for so many years? Thanks

Grundig GDHS-223 & Concept = T20 driver.
Jamo, Denon, = T30 driver.

The main differences are the Grundig has a bigger baffle and pads that are larger than the rear cups/shell.
Also the Grundig uses a pleather headband cover.

All the T30 variants have smaller pads the same size as the cups and plastic suspension headband.