[DefectiveAudioComponent]

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Yeah, let's see a photo. The only plausible reasons I can think of are the ones Sambones has already flung, or variations thereof. Of course, maybe they ran out of Type 1 magnets and just got in a shipment of Type 1As.

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Are there pictures of that?  Sounds interesting, but I couldn't find anything via google or wiki.

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To get a differently FR'd backwave, to cut down on backwave cancellation? To provide the reflex-dot effect, by having a reflector lined up behind the front holes?

Let's have a look at the front of the AKAI 40J driver, and what you can see through the membrane of the back of the driver (top photo, the next photo).
Square holes (small on this side, larger on the front), in rows.
VS
Round holes, placed in a different pattern.
 

 

 
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aha, i think this is the right time discuss about this one...is it identical or not, with Victor HP D-50 that i posted before ?
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/111193/orthodynamic-roundup/16455#post_7284905
 
more info:
http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Victor_HP-D50
http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Akai_ASE-40-J
DAC, maybe ? or ericj ?

 
Looking at your photos of the D50 driver, it appears to have identical square holes on both magnets. Right?
The voice coil on the D50 is nearly (but not completely) identical though.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

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OK, i'm not going to use the stock pads either..so we both are similar, even choose different pathway...
at least we know for sure that NAD still good for their price&performance right ?
no matter the mylar one or the kapton one, they both still very nice choice...
even when we prefer differently version, it's still known as NAD RP-18, right ?
so no need to argue anymore about which one are better since ppl hear differently..

 


yes, i'm with gurubhai here...i have bad experience using transpore on T20v2 before and found the same thing on NAD as well..
so i prefer felt and any other material like wet tissue, foss silicon sealer & dynamat to balance the dark beast NAD...

 
Exactly.  IM-not so-HO, the RP18s are still the best bang for the buck vintage ortho in a tie with the Warfie's and both are better values than any current production headphone once you tune them to your liking.  The Warfie's prices have elevated faster than the RP18s and I think the stock design of the Warfie is more polarizing too, but I'd snatch up a pair of them if I found them for a reasonable price. 
 
I find the opinions on TransPore versus MicroPore interesting and all I'll add is, with the right felt, the TransPore does not exhibit harshness or sibilance in the highs, so I think it's dependent on the over all damping scheme with strong dependencies on the types of felts or other damping materials used.  Also, the tuning effect of the TransPore changes over time as the adhesive dries and the pores open more.  The other medical tapes do not have nearly as a pronounced change over time as TransPore does. 
 
 

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

By the way, I noticed yesterday that in the patent for the ID1, it was suggested to add a narrow tensioned membrane for treble closer to the magnets, in addition to the corrugated loose membrane that produces deep bass. But I have not seen any driver that actually implements it.

 

[rhythmdevils]

DAC, the square holes are the front of the driver facing the ear?  And the larger holes are in the front (towards your face)?  That would be interesting because it would go along with Hifiman's damping of the ear side of the driver that is undamped in the front and damped with increasing layers towards the back of the head. 

 

[gurubhai]

Quote:

 
Exactly.  IM-not so-HO, the RP18s are still the best bang for the buck vintage ortho in a tie with the Warfie's and both are better values than any current production headphone once you tune them to your liking.  The Warfie's prices have elevated faster than the RP18s and I think the stock design of the Warfie is more polarizing too, but I'd snatch up a pair of them if I found them for a reasonable price. 
 
I find the opinions on TransPore versus MicroPore interesting and all I'll add is, with the right felt, the TransPore does not exhibit harshness or sibilance in the highs, so I think it's dependent on the over all damping scheme with strong dependencies on the types of felts or other damping materials used.  Also, the tuning effect of the TransPore changes over time as the adhesive dries and the pores open more.  The other medical tapes do not have nearly as a pronounced change over time as TransPore does. 
 
 

I agree on both counts, the NAD are indeed one of the best vintage orthos( though probably the best bang for buck award from me would go to yamaha HP50).
 
About felt vs. tape, I don't deny that the tapes have their uses & it depends on the over-all schem. The tapes are useful especially when the space at the back of driver is at a premium.
Although I would never cover the whole back of driver with the tapes, infact in most of my schemes it comes down to less than a third.
And if I can get away without using them, I would prefer that.
 
Of course felt has its own issues. In case of bass heavy headphones, the denser felt needed would lead to much more collapsed soundstage than a layer of tape.
Whatever works for ones needs, I guess.

 
 

 

[dBel84]

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Whatever works for ones needs..........
 
 

despair and hopelessness is what everyone needs. I can then supply a recycling address for all who wish to see the back of their orthos, it is the least I could do to support my fellow orthoheads. 
 
 

 
 
 
It has been a while since I dug about in my ortho tub but all this comparison talk and "best vintage ortho" badge of honour made me revisit a few old friends. man, that HP50 sure deserves all the accolades it gets but then I didn't find any of them to sound bad or even off. They do sound different that big serpentine driver is tight as a snare and is snappy as hell but those seriously seductive yamaha mids are just jelly bending. I laugh at myself as I have threatened on many an occasion to trim down the collection but I am not sure I could consciously get rid of any of them. The only recent ones to have left the fold were claimed by friends and budding orthodonti. As much as I love my wharfedale, I am sure that many would not like it's signature. It is like a complex single malt or perhaps a voluptuous italian lover (lots of body and emotion).  
 
It still amazes me that so many variations on the T50 esque driver exist and non but the fostex continued production (albeit in significantly changed form). Kab's aiwa is one of the finest put together vintage headphones I have had the rare pleasure of experiencing, pity so few are in circulation. 
 
..dB
 

 

[iQEM]

 
Quote:

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Let's have a look at the front of the AKAI 40J driver, and what you can see through the membrane of the back of the driver (top photo, the next photo).
Square holes (small on this side, larger on the front), in rows.
VS
Round holes, placed in a different pattern.
 

 

 
 
Looking at your photos of the D50 driver, it appears to have identical square holes on both magnets. Right?
The voice coil on the D50 is nearly (but not completely) identical though.

precisely, the magnet of D50 are square holes on both magnet...
so D50 more similar to ASE40j than ASE50, right ?

 
Quote:

 
Exactly.  IM-not so-HO, the RP18s are still the best bang for the buck vintage ortho in a tie with the Warfie's and both are better values than any current production headphone once you tune them to your liking.  The Warfie's prices have elevated faster than the RP18s and I think the stock design of the Warfie is more polarizing too, but I'd snatch up a pair of them if I found them for a reasonable price. 
 
I find the opinions on TransPore versus MicroPore interesting and all I'll add is, with the right felt, the TransPore does not exhibit harshness or sibilance in the highs, so I think it's dependent on the over all damping scheme with strong dependencies on the types of felts or other damping materials used.  Also, the tuning effect of the TransPore changes over time as the adhesive dries and the pores open more.  The other medical tapes do not have nearly as a pronounced change over time as TransPore does. 
 
 

i have seen some of you work Brian, and i like it..
i only able to copy the schemes of YH100 to other lower Yammy, but not have good results on copying the schemes from first T10 (i haven't heard the second one that Questa's had purchase) to other lower Fostex...and still dont have good/acceptable result on higher fostex/OEM's, so i guess i should trial & error again...from the scratch...

 
Quote:

I agree on both counts, the NAD are indeed one of the best vintage orthos( though probably the best bang for buck award from me would go to yamaha HP50).
 
About felt vs. tape, I don't deny that the tapes have their uses & it depends on the over-all schem. The tapes are useful especially when the space at the back of driver is at a premium.
Although I would never cover the whole back of driver with the tapes, infact in most of my schemes it comes down to less than a third.
And if I can get away without using them, I would prefer that.
 
Of course felt has its own issues. In case of bass heavy headphones, the denser felt needed would lead to much more collapsed soundstage than a layer of tape.
Whatever works for ones needs, I guess.

 
 

agreed...i still use micropore, transpore and other tapes thingy for other Orthos, but not on my NAD or T20v2's..
i just dont have spare time to roll the schemes allover again from the scratch...maybe later, but not now...

 
just curious, does any of you guys have try to hear you NAD (without any damping attached inside) on various orientation ?
try it, i had rotate the driver orientation far away from stock orientation..this are one of my recipe to make the overall sound more balance as well...
hopefully useful for everyone, that's why i show a pict with the orientation of the driver magnet as well here..

 
Quote:

despair and hopelessness is what everyone needs. I can then supply a recycling address for all who wish to see the back of their orthos, it is the least I could do to support my fellow orthoheads. 
 
 

 
 
 
It has been a while since I dug about in my ortho tub but all this comparison talk and "best vintage ortho" badge of honour made me revisit a few old friends. man, that HP50 sure deserves all the accolades it gets but then I didn't find any of them to sound bad or even off. They do sound different that big serpentine driver is tight as a snare and is snappy as hell but those seriously seductive yamaha mids are just jelly bending. I laugh at myself as I have threatened on many an occasion to trim down the collection but I am not sure I could consciously get rid of any of them. The only recent ones to have left the fold were claimed by friends and budding orthodonti. As much as I love my wharfedale, I am sure that many would not like it's signature. It is like a complex single malt or perhaps a voluptuous italian lover (lots of body and emotion).  
 
It still amazes me that so many variations on the T50 esque driver exist and non but the fostex continued production (albeit in significantly changed form). Kab's aiwa is one of the finest put together vintage headphones I have had the rare pleasure of experiencing, pity so few are in circulation. 
 
..dB
 

indeed, we are very grateful that having Ortho Doctor like you here, Donald...btw where's our Ortho ninja anyway ?

 

[gurubhai]

Quote:

 
just curious, does any of you guys have try to hear you NAD (without any damping attached inside) on various orientation ?
try it, i had rotate the driver orientation far away from stock orientation..this are one of my recipe to make the overall sound more balance as well...
hopefully useful for everyone, that's why i show a pict with the orientation of the driver magnet as well here..

 

What kind of improvement does that bring ?
 

 

[DaBomb77766]

Holy crap, almost 17,000 posts...uh, quick question, has anyone actually read through this entire thread?  It almost seems worthwhile giving orthos their own forum looking at the size of this thread.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

i have seen some of you work Brian, and i like it.. i only able to copy the schemes of YH100 to other lower Yammy, but not have good results on copying the schemes from first T10 (i haven't heard the second one that Questa's had purchase) to other lower Fostex...and still dont have good/acceptable result on higher fostex/OEM's, so i guess i should trial & error again...from the scratch...

 


agreed...i still use micropore, transpore and other tapes thingy for other Orthos, but not on my NAD or T20v2's..
i just dont have spare time to roll the schemes allover again from the scratch...maybe later, but not now...

 
just curious, does any of you guys have try to hear you NAD (without any damping attached inside) on various orientation ?
try it, i had rotate the driver orientation far away from stock orientation..this are one of my recipe to make the overall sound more balance as well...
hopefully useful for everyone, that's why i show a pict with the orientation of the driver magnet as well here..

 

 
My RP18s are so bass heavy that without the use of tape, I can't fit enough damping material in the cups and the other drawback is that the more damping material, the more the sound stage collapses.  The RP18s don't have a big stage to begin with, so all of my efforts have been to reduce the amount of materials while maintaining the sig I like so the stage widens.  If rotating the drivers orientation widened the stage, LMK!
 
 


Quote:

Holy crap, almost 17,000 posts...uh, quick question, has anyone actually read through this entire thread?  It almost seems worthwhile giving orthos their own forum looking at the size of this thread.

Yeah, but I started about 3 years ago when it only had some 3,000 posts. 

 

 

[nickchen]

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IM-not so-HO, the RP18s are still the best bang for the buck vintage ortho in a tie with the Warfie's and both are better values than any current production headphone once you tune them to your liking. 
 

Are the Warfies really in the same leage as the RP18???
 
 

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

Are the Warfies really in the same leage as the RP18???
 
 

Shhhhh!  Let's move this to PMs, no sense in driving their prices up even higher. 

 
All kidding aside, there's only a couple of peeps that have heard a properly tuned RP18 and I haven't heard a Warfie, but my ninjas tell me that I could probably have some nice results with an ID1 and a few mod sessions or custom fosterphone.  I'm still not done extracting all the good juicey sound sig and stage from the RP18s so I will say that I suspect a stock Mylar RP18 with new pads and a stock Warfie ID1 are in the same league.  The question remains how much more can we get out of them with mods.  I don't like the square look or pads of the ID1s so I would have to move the drivers into a new home.  I'm doing the same thing with my rare Toshiba electrets too.  Just can't handle the ugly square cups and square pads.  My head isn't square and neither are my ears.  Heck, I'll just come out and bluntly say it, I'm too hip to be square. 

 
 

 

[gurubhai]

Did I hear toshiba electret?
Which model?
I recently acquired an OEM model of HR-810, the rotel rh-930, unfortunately, haven't been able to give them much attention as of yet.
On a casual listen, they sounded really smooth albeit bass-shy.
 

 

[Sim1]

Quote:

My RP18s are so bass heavy that without the use of tape, I can't fit enough damping material in the cups and the other drawback is that the more damping material, the more the sound stage collapses.  The RP18s don't have a big stage to begin with, so all of my efforts have been to reduce the amount of materials while maintaining the sig I like so the stage widens.  If rotating the drivers orientation widened the stage, LMK!

 
You could try to find or just make different pads, maybe made of fabric, something like yh1000 peeled pads but thicker... Or for test try to use thin foam rings under pads to see a difference. Slightly more distance from ear and less sealing should do the job.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

Did I hear toshiba electret?
Which model?
I recently acquired an OEM model of HR-810, the rotel rh-930, unfortunately, haven't been able to give them much attention as of yet.
On a casual listen, they sounded really smooth albeit bass-shy.
 

I forget the exact model off hand.  The lack of bass is do to the very small transformers used in the energizers.  They severely limit frequency response and speed.  I'm removing the stock cable and switching over to a Stax cable and running mine off the Cavalli Audio Liquid Lightning prototype once I have it finished. 
 
Edit:  Sim, I have W11 pads on my RP18s now and I plan to make a custom O2 style pads with suede inner and Lambskin outers later.  Just no time to get the old sewing machine up and running.