[DefectiveAudioComponent]

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Just wanna state that I sincerely believe that the HE-4 is quite possibly the best sub $500 headphone....

Yes, I haven't heard them all, but HOLY SMOKES...

Believe me when I say I'm very critical with my headphones... and these have moved me like no other headphone...

 
Does the HE4 have those rumored recessed mids?
 
 

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

 
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Does anyone know the approx thickness of the Wharfedale Isodynamic's magnets?

I suppose it would be very easy to just take one out and measure?

 

[wualta]

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The engineers were trying to create a headphone for people who were demanding a fully closed headphone for studio work.  They used the same housing, but sealed off as requested by prosumers.

As far as I know, this is true. Sometimes in a studio environment you just need a 'phone that doesn't leak sound in or out. But I don't see any reason why we couldn't drill a small hole in the T40v1's cup, or even open the plugged-up vents with a Dremel and a little cutoff wheel. The hole has the great advantage of being easier to seal back up if you didn't like the effect. It's worth a try.
 
As we know, anytime you seal the volume behind the driver you create an air spring (as in a sealed-box speaker). If the volume is small enough, this spring becomes stiff enough to fight the diaphragm and raise its bass cutoff frequency. This is why none of the Yamahas are sealed and why the Smeggipucks have their tiny holes. It's not to create a resonant system (the aerodynamic losses in a hole that small make it impossible anyway), it's to relieve the pressure from that spring by providing a hole that's just big enough and no bigger. You accomplish the same thing by providing a large damped vent, as Yamaha did. Or you can simply lead the backwave out via a long tube that you tuck into your trousers, as I facetiously suggested awhile back.
 
 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

 
Does the HE4 have those rumored recessed mids?
 
 

I find the mids quite involved and natural. Recessed in terms of not being the focal point, but not lost between the lows and highs. I think people blow recession out of proportion. The HE-4 has a very balanced and high quality sound.

As a test, I ran it with my E9, which sweetens the mids. The mids definitely became forward. With the Lyr, it blends in naturally, instead of being all in your face. I find being too mid forward as awkward and unnatural as being too recessed and distant. Th HE-4 is neither.

 

[wdiabc]

Thank you so much for the reply. Maybe I was wrong about the resonance theory. But during my experiments with T50RP, If the size of the hole is bigger, then the bass peak seems to go up to 150HZ range. 
The damped big vent may very well have the same effect like a small hole. I would try to experiment with the T50RP with a thin felt on the vents. Seems I am going back to stock damping setups...lol
 
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As far as I know, this is true. Sometimes in a studio environment you just need a 'phone that doesn't leak sound in or out. But I don't see any reason why we couldn't drill a small hole in the T40v1's cup, or even open the plugged-up vents with a Dremel and a little cutoff wheel. The hole has the great advantage of being easier to seal back up if you didn't like the effect. It's worth a try.
 
As we know, anytime you seal the volume behind the driver you create an air spring (as in a sealed-box speaker). If the volume is small enough, this spring becomes stiff enough to fight the diaphragm and raise its bass cutoff frequency. This is why none of the Yamahas are sealed and why the Smeggipucks have their tiny holes. It's not to create a resonant system (the aerodynamic losses in a hole that small make it impossible anyway), it's to relieve the pressure from that spring by providing a hole that's just big enough and no bigger. You accomplish the same thing by providing a large damped vent, as Yamaha did. Or you can simply lead the backwave out via a long tube that you tuck into your trousers, as I facetiously suggested awhile back.
 
 

 

 

[iQEM]

 
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RP18 musings...
 

 
So I've had 1 Kaplon/bass heavy and 2 Mylars/bass light here for a while. Background was that I was to organize something for RD, which was...well, somewhat too successful, as RD had bought a pair from Kabeer just a few hours before I hit the buy now button at a german ebay auction.
 
When both are equipped with W11 pads, I originally preferred my bass heavy ones, the Mylars just sounded too bright, cold & K701ish, and I missed that roaring deep bass layer of the Kaplons completely. But after RD had agreed that I was allowed to remove the stock damping and try my own Micropore and Transpore routines, I was able to get rid of most of these Mylar issues. Consequently, I don't agree to the general consensus that the Mylar's damping is perfect already stock, at least with W11- and taped DT770 pads. With a matched reduced damping, the Mylar gets the similar bass layers as the Kaplons, and at least enough warmth for my liking, but they keep most of treble glitter the Kaplon won't display to the same extend. The Kaplon still rules the mids section IMO, the dryer Mylar will never have that mellow and involving beauty. I'd say the Mylar is more audiophile and more realistic sounding, but the Kaplon is more musical and exciting. I adore both.
 
I ended up preferring the redamped Mylar, mostly because of its better genre bandwidth. As RD had uttered some...disappointment...about having 2 Mylars, we agreed to make a swap, and I guess that is a win-win for both of us.
 
So Im a part of the RP18 Mylar fraction now.

 
i never like what the result using Transpore on the kapton or mylar NAD, but haven't try using micropore on both..
i just found that the sound became overdamping using transpore..too many highs peak, that's why i remove the tapes from em...
but maybe i dont mix em right, maybe..my damping scheme are on the picts there, so would you share your latest scheme nickchen ? 
i'm just curious...

 
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Ah, I see, you're going the felt path. I think I will give that a try in medium terms, my Micro- and Transpore damping is rather a snapshot than final stage.
 
Those Koss pads are very peculiar... 

  As we're already at it, I've always asked myself if those super-comfy Sony XB500 monster pads were utilizable...

 
 

 
well, now i found it more comfort after using the MV1...and not to forget, since the inner holes are bigger than the stock pads, it sound more open&clearer than before...
sharp imaging, wider separation, bigger staging&not too midrangey...it's improve alot with other pads, indeed...

 
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Certainly not disappointed, more just surprised by the fact that I wound up with 2 of the more rare version.  The chances of that happening must be pretty slim.  But I do hope it wound up the best for you and you're welcome to change your mind down the road...
 
 

so, would you share here the different that you found between the mylar & kapton one ?
which one being recabled, i've seen one from the picts from nickchen above using custom cable, not stock...
what cable are those ? so, are the other two still using stock cables & jack ?

 

 

[rhythmdevils]

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so, would you share here the different that you found between the mylar & kapton one ?

I definitely will, but they just left Germany, so it could be a little while.  Nico transferred the new cable to his pair, so both incoming pairs have stock cable.  I just got an electric knife and a right angle setup too, so I'll be able to cut thin even sheets of memory foam which will expand my mem foam damping capability by quite a bit.  I'm hoping for great things to happen.

 

[iQEM]

oh yea, before i forget..here some pict when i replace the inner cup seals (using nippon tapes) on T20v2 ex of mine, to foss auto sealer..
the seal improves alot, sound more efficient and thicker body and more extend on the upper+lower freq...
and the picts show the schemes i had used inside, 2 layer of wet tissues and rockwool...later i add dynamat too on the driver clamp area...


 
this mod schemes make the T20v2 sounds more huge & richer than the stock one..
even it's still using stock cables+jack and not using any tapes on the driver just yet...

 

 
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I definitely will, but they just left Germany, so it could be a little while.  Nico transferred the new cable to his pair, so both incoming pairs have stock cable.  I just got an electric knife and a right angle setup too, so I'll be able to cut thin even sheets of memory foam which will expand my mem foam damping capability by quite a bit.  I'm hoping for great things to happen.

 
i c, well goodluck then...

 

[nickchen]

iQEM, I had my Kaplon completely sealed with Micropore, plus a reflex dot. I also didn't like Transpore, but for a different reason, it just didn't damp sufficiently IMO. I think the Kaplon's achill heel is its presence section, you got to damp it deeply into the overdamped territory to dig out noteworthy treble glitter. But that kills much of its bass and mids beauty, so I ended up leaving it sounding quite warm and dark, RD will report later.
 
I just found out I got one drawback by swapping into the Mylar team (which I still regard as reasonable though). As the Mylars need less damping with W11 pads, they become more efficient than the Kaplons, and as they have more brilliance, you tend to listen at lower volumes. Both effects together lead to much less kick-bass in the overall sound signature...  

     I think I'll have to redamp them on the ear's side to make them less efficient and a bit more Kaplon-ish.

 

[iQEM]

OK, so you use reflex dot with micropore? i use 2 different density felt act as a reflex dot too..
and what do you mean completly seal em with micropore?
just cover all the magnet holes or cover the whole parts of the capsules?
i have tried to cover all the magnet holes with transpore but ended up with a lil' bit sibilant on the mid to high..
and became more less efficient than let some of the magnet holes opened or without any transpore added..
with the stock pads, i use schemes on the picts last page..
roll with MV1 pads, i remove the wet tissues layer from the open area of the cup..
too shiny for my taste, not to mention too much bass quantity killed..
now i let em sound balance, from low to high..not treble or deep bass centric..
and yet still have good (not dry) mid but not too forward or laidback..
well i'm jut a lover of balance instruments, speed centric&headstage lover..
that's my obsession for my NAD kapton..

 

[nickchen]

With a "complete seal" I mean only covering the magnet holes of course. Principally, I have the suspicion that interchanging our damping schemes isn't very useful, as we use different pads.
 
I would rather make love to Chuck Norris than going back to stock pads...

 

[gurubhai]

^I had similar experience to iQEM with my pair, micro/transpore = too much treble & exaggerated upper mid leading to sibilance.
That's why I prefer felt.
You may also like to try 'differential damping' approach, it helps in retaining good bass even with W11 pads.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Everyone hears a similar signature differently and has different preferences.  There is no one best way to damp any headphone.  Then add in the additional variables of sources, preamps. amps, pads, or replacement cables and it's even more complex.  Every change or mod has a small effect and some have huge effects on what the individual will hear.
 
That is what I always try to tell people, I can only take a headphone so far. The last 10%-30% of the tuning is up to the individual.  Even if you really like my scheme or somebody else's scheme, I bet with a little tweaking that same person can bring out another level of tuning that better suits their preferences.  Others do not like my scheme as it might be too bright or too forward in the mids for their taste.  They might hear the highs as sibilant or harsh on their systems or the bass may be too weak or over powering on their systems...
 
This doesn't just apply to ortho tuning, but amp reviews, tube nuances, or sources too.  There are some highly respected members on H-F who review a lot of gear and my preferences are completely different than theirs.  For me, others like Skylab, have nearly identical preferences and tastes, allowing me to take his reviews as nearly gospel as it relates to my systems and my preferences, based on direct conversations with him and listening to his gear with his cans or my cans at CanJam in 2010. Then there are a few rats who take other's recommendations or techniques, try them, then preach them to everyone else in different threads and claim them to be their own discoveries.  You have to take everything on H-F with a grain of salt and individual listening impressions while not let conflicting opinions bother you. 
 
Just realize that when dealing with and tuning vintage orthos, it's going to be more work for the individual to fully extract the most performance and enjoyment from their headphones.
 
That is my nickel's worth of advice or observations.

 

[scompton]

I just got a pair of XB500s.  I'm hoping the pads will make my Fostex T30 usable.  They are comfortable pads.

 

[nickchen]

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Everyone hears a similar signature differently and has different preferences.  There is no one best way to damp any headphone.  That is what I always try to tell people, I can only take a headphone so far. The last 10%-30% of the tuning is up to the individual. 
 

 
That is really true, Brian, and that is also to be applied elsewhere. If you think about it more seriously (and also take the frightening quality spreads of most manufacturers into account), you can get to a point where you start hesitating about the sense of discussions in audio forums at all. Not that I do, I like my talk shop...

 
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I just got a pair of XB500s.  I'm hoping the pads will make my Fostex T30 usable.  They are comfortable pads.

 
Yep, I also thought they must be ueber-comfortable. I'd love to put them on my T20v2, I will give that thing another tinker round anyway.