Grado Fan Club!
Mar 26, 2013 at 11:19 PM Post #6,616 of 65,799
You can see *all* of my closed cans in my profile, but if I want an at least *somewhat* "Grado-like" presentation:

- Koss MV1
- Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X

Neither is really the same as the RS-1, but those two are probably the closest I've yet heard. MV1 are closer than the ATs, but harder to drive.
The Valhalla does a good job with the Grados? I'm very interested in hearing about that...:D
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 12:09 AM Post #6,617 of 65,799
You can see *all* of my closed cans in my profile, but if I want an at least *somewhat* "Grado-like" presentation:

- Koss MV1
- Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X

Neither is really the same as the RS-1, but those two are probably the closest I've yet heard. MV1 are closer than the ATs, but harder to drive.
The Valhalla does a good job with the Grados? I'm very interested in hearing about that...:D


I'm very happy with it. Definitely a Grado presentation, upfront row A rather than row J. Do not find it "bright", no excessssive sssssibilance, no tooth enamel cracking highs. Rather, it is presence, detail, and delicacy. Not fat and underdamped, realistic texture and detail right to the bottom. Comparisons to the Dragonfly support this. The HD650s (now sold) were not better (more realistic) on the bottom.

Setup is as described, interconnects to Valhalla are Nordost Heimdall short .5 meter. I'm aware that Schiit doesn't consider 32 ohm cans "ideal" here, but my irrational reason was that having enjoyed tube amplification for years, I wanted to try an otl amp, and the new desktop system was a cheap way to do it.

Oh, I listen in a quiet environment, and 11:30 on the volume is just great.

Excuse the bumbling earlier non-post.
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 12:37 AM Post #6,618 of 65,799
If you're sourcing from the PC, I'd honestly suggest a soundcard over a stand-alone D/A, unless you have a reasonable amount of money to spend (multiple hundreds -> thousands). :)

And re-ripping your CDs to at least 320k range would be a good choice as well; and will probably do more for you than a D/A (in other words, the D/A can't "undo" the problems associated with over-compression).


I agree. Start with good quality lossless files before improving anything downstream. But help me out here; I'm ripping cds to 16/44 or 24/96 depending on my impression of the original recording quality and desire to not eat up too much space. Flac files end up 200 to 600 mb and wav to over 2 gb. What do you mean "...to at least 320..."?

Thanks!
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 2:08 AM Post #6,619 of 65,799
Can someone explain to me how ripping a cd to a higher sample rate than it was originally recorded at helps anything. How can you get more out of the cd than is there to begin with?
 
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 7:56 AM Post #6,621 of 65,799
Quote:
Can someone explain to me how ripping a cd to a higher sample rate than it was originally recorded at helps anything. How can you get more out of the cd than is there to begin with?
 

FFrom what I've read/experienced you can't rip to a higher bit from something that for instance, a downloaded song recorded at 256kbps, is going to remain at 256kbps, because the information is just not availiable to get more kbps. But you can rip to a lower kbps.
I just started listening to downloaded music/ripping Cd's also, so I'm learning myself. Otherwise I use a Cd player. 
Quote:
What is the best buy/value in Grados in your opinion? I can afford pretty much most of them but I don't know which one I want to spend money on for my first Grado.

That is totally up to you personal prefference , all of the different model Grados- SR, RS, GS, PS have different soung signatures. I personally love the SR325is at 295$U.S. I love their sound signature, and are more than satisfiied with them,and don't feel the need spend more on headphones for a sound signature I may not like.  
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 10:16 AM Post #6,622 of 65,799
Quote:
What is the best buy/value in Grados in your opinion? I can afford pretty much most of them but I don't know which one I want to spend money on for my first Grado.

 
If you have the opportunity audition a number of models in a store, I highly recommend the experience.  I went to Audio Perfection in Minneapolis and the sales person brought out four models and left me alone with my laptop / DAC for about an hour.  I tried a couple of the prestige models (if I recall correctly) the SR225i and SR325is, along with the RS2i and RS1i.  Of course, YMMV and we tend to acclimate to a headphone over time and hear things a little differently.
 
But, my experience was that there was a big jump between the SR models and RS models - really, for my taste it was not even close.  Not so much, however, between the RS2i and the RS1i; I could perceive a slight improvement in sibilance w/ the RS1i, but not enough to justify the jump in price.  So, I walked out with the RS2i.  Just my $0.02...
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 10:23 AM Post #6,623 of 65,799
Quote:
Can someone explain to me how ripping a cd to a higher sample rate than it was originally recorded at helps anything. How can you get more out of the cd than is there to begin with?
 

The issue is to NOT rip it at a lower or more compressed rate.
For example if ripping in iTunes, select lossless FLAC and not MP3 or AAC
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 11:23 AM Post #6,624 of 65,799
I'm aware that Schiit doesn't consider 32 ohm cans "ideal" here, but my irrational reason was that having enjoyed tube amplification for years, I wanted to try an otl amp, and the new desktop system was a cheap way to do it.

Oh, I listen in a quiet environment, and 11:30 on the volume is just great.

Excuse the bumbling earlier non-post.


This was exactly where I was going with that question - because while they say that, they also show pictures of the thing hooked up to Grados (!!!), and I figured *someone* out there would've tried it by now. Good to hear it works - I'm assuming it's dead quiet (at least until you turn it up to insane levels)? Or is there some hiss/hum?

Can someone explain to me how ripping a cd to a higher sample rate than it was originally recorded at helps anything. How can you get more out of the cd than is there to begin with?

 


You don't rip it to "higher than it was originally recorded at" - CD audio is 16-bit, 44.1khz, 1411kbit/s; good quality lossy rips will be 16/44.1 @ 320k, fantastic quality will be 16/44.1 with lossless VBR (and will generally come out around 1000k/s). The point is a lot like AudioQuest's marketing spiel - do no harm. You won't ever "unscrew" problems that already exist, but you can certainly try to prevent creating MORE problems. :)


I agree. Start with good quality lossless files before improving anything downstream. But help me out here; I'm ripping cds to 16/44 or 24/96 depending on my impression of the original recording quality and desire to not eat up too much space. Flac files end up 200 to 600 mb and wav to over 2 gb. What do you mean "...to at least 320..."?

Thanks!


No point in ripping 24/96 - that's a waste of space (the CD is only 16/44.1; there is zero point in forcing SRC). 16/44.1 @ lossless is the absolute best case scenario. 200-600MB per TRACK is absolutely screwed up (do you mean 200-600 per DISC?); I rip WMA-L (same difference) and expect ~20MB per track (some more, some less, depending on length and what the VBR does).

WAV @ 2GB even if we're talking the entire disc is totally screwed up - a complete 1:1 clone of a CD should never exceed 700MB. No idea what you're doing, but it ain't right. :p

And what I mean by "at least 320" is at least 320k (as in 320k/s) - high bitrate lossy (pick your poison: MP3, WMA, OGG, etc). Generally speaking 320k will be on-par with a lossless rip. And of course you're gonna have some folks who claim they can hear a difference no matter what content is encoded, all the time, in any situation, under any circumstances, etc etc yadda yadda, and others who claim they're the same thing no matter what content is encoded, all the time, in any situation, under any circumstances, etc etc yadda yadda; I think both sides are too extreme for their own good. Personally I rip lossless because I have a lot of storage, and basically don't care about space requirements - I also like having a lossless rip available to re-encode to a lossy file for mobile or whatever other use (not that I've ever done it, but I like having the option). I have a lot of older stuff ripped in at 320k or lossy VBR (which will usually end up around 320k) and don't really hear any compression artefacts - there's much ado about nothing when it comes to "perfect" digital audio methinks.

If space is a concern, 320k is a good place to be; if you have a ton of disk space and don't care, just rip lossless and don't worry about it. :)

FFrom what I've read/experienced you can't rip to a higher bit from something that for instance, a downloaded song recorded at 256kbps, is going to remain at 256kbps, because the information is just not availiable to get more kbps. But you can rip to a lower kbps.


You can "upsample" or "resample" the data into a larger container, but it doesn't add any fidelity - for example ripping a CD at 24/96; the computer is creating data to "fill in" all of the extra bits on the samples so that it will be 24-bit, and is performing SRC so that it will be 96khz (up from 44.1), but it isn't going to offer any higher fidelity than a CD (and it may actually screw things up, if the SRC is hammed up).

In terms of compression, you're exactly right that you cannot make a 256k file into anything "better" than a 256k file - but you can certainly stuff it down to 128k (you can never "undo" that though, you'd have to start with the 256k file again if you wanted to create, say, a 160k file).


The issue is to NOT rip it at a lower or more compressed rate.
For example if ripping in iTunes, select lossless FLAC and not MP3 or AAC


Exactly. Out of curiosity (I don't use iTunes): will iTunes actually rip to FLAC? Or will it only rip to ALAC? (not that it really matters - lossless is lossless).

Lossless is always the "ideal" when it comes to ripping CDs, but generally you can get away with *some* compression (320k is around 4:1) without problems - and again, I'd really only worry about this if you've either got a teensy-tiny hard-drive (and seriously, disks are cheap these days...), or a mobile device that won't support lossless containers (which isn't entirely uncommon; there's a reasonable list of devices that support WMA-L, I think at least a few Apple components will support ALAC, and I'm sure there's plug-ins or hacks to get FLAC working on some of the more popular devices out there, but otherwise its generally lossy containers).
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 12:23 PM Post #6,625 of 65,799
I'm shopping for my first DAC.

I've got  a 225i. I'm able to stream and listen to my PC music files from an Onkyo receiver through my home wifi network. I've not purchased a DAC yet. I'm just curious how much better listening to my PC music files or even streaming sounds from a PC w/ a decent dedicated DAC vs from my Onkyo receiver with the DAC that the receiver comes with....

any thoughts?

I know that if I pop in a CD into my Onkyo dedicated CD player and listen through the HP jack on the CD player that it sounds better than through the HP jack on my receiver. And, I realize that streaming from something like Rhapsody won't sound as good as a well recorded CD. I would say that the Onkyo receiver sounds OK, but not fantastic.

 I'm looking at the two DACs you mention in you post among others (Hrt strmer, MODI, etc.) I guess I'm debating that..... if a DAC thru my PC won't improve the SQ fairly dramatically is it worth the purchase given that I can access my digital music through my stereo receiver.....

I know this is a little off topic, but I am listening to a Grado :happy_face1:


Since you are not thrilled with the sound using your receiver, and assuming you are listening to lossless files, I think you will realize significant gains by getting the receiver out of the picture and going with a dedicated dac/amp. The whole setup will be much simpler and cleaner. I lean toward a separate dac and amp because you can later change one without the other (and we know how fast dacs are changing). Pay attention also to the handling and delivery of the files by the computer. I use Jplay mini, but it's a bit too crude and "unattractive" for lots of people. Audioquest and others have great info available on optimizing the PC for music playback.

For certain, your 225is are absolutely transparent enough to give you thrilling music playback once the front end is optimized. And it doesn't cost nearly as much as we had to pay for (mediocre) digital playback just a few years ago.
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 12:54 PM Post #6,626 of 65,799
Quote:
Since you are not thrilled with the sound using your receiver, and assuming you are listening to lossless files, I think you will realize significant gains by getting the receiver out of the picture and going with a dedicated dac/amp. The whole setup will be much simpler and cleaner. I lean toward a separate dac and amp because you can later change one without the other (and we know how fast dacs are changing). Pay attention also to the handling and delivery of the files by the computer. I use Jplay mini, but it's a bit too crude and "unattractive" for lots of people. Audioquest and others have great info available on optimizing the PC for music playback.

For certain, your 225is are absolutely transparent enough to give you thrilling music playback once the front end is optimized. And it doesn't cost nearly as much as we had to pay for (mediocre) digital playback just a few years ago.

 
Thanks fefski! I would assume the same applies to streaming. I think part of my issue, is I've just begun streaming via Rhapsody (they're running a killer 3 month introductory deal that's a steal) and I should probably try MOG whihc I understand has a higher 320 bit rate.
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 1:05 PM Post #6,627 of 65,799
What is the best buy/value in Grados in your opinion? I can afford pretty much most of them but I don't know which one I want to spend money on for my first Grado.
This is a matter of opinion and of course your wallet! I love grado! Now the fun part of it, if you are on a tight budget then I would recommend the sr80i. This is one hell of a headphone for that price, you can take that to the bank! Now if the well is deep, then try getting the midrange grado such as the RS series, either the 1-2. Or the ps500, they range from 500 to 700$. They are very excellent sounding cans! Better soundstage, transparent, with sl. coloration and very adequate bass impact, but all in all, the grado sound signature is the one you want!
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 3:22 PM Post #6,628 of 65,799
Since you are not thrilled with the sound using your receiver, and assuming you are listening to lossless files, I think you will realize significant gains by getting the receiver out of the picture and going with a dedicated dac/amp. The whole setup will be much simpler and cleaner. I lean toward a separate dac and amp because you can later change one without the other (and we know how fast dacs are changing). Pay attention also to the handling and delivery of the files by the computer. I use Jplay mini, but it's a bit too crude and "unattractive" for lots of people. Audioquest and others have great info available on optimizing the PC for music playback.

For certain, your 225is are absolutely transparent enough to give you thrilling music playback once the front end is optimized. And it doesn't cost nearly as much as we had to pay for (mediocre) digital playback just a few years ago.


+1 to this, all of it. I really don't have many nits to pick with Audioquest's "improving PC audio" guide either, except that it's very iTunes-centric (there are a lot of good players out there, just keep that in mind).
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 5:11 PM Post #6,629 of 65,799
Quote:
What is the best buy/value in Grados in your opinion? I can afford pretty much most of them but I don't know which one I want to spend money on for my first Grado.

 
Quote:
This is a matter of opinion and of course your wallet! I love grado! Now the fun part of it, if you are on a tight budget then I would recommend the sr80i. This is one hell of a headphone for that price, you can take that to the bank! Now if the well is deep, then try getting the midrange grado such as the RS series, either the 1-2. Or the ps500, they range from 500 to 700$. They are very excellent sounding cans! Better soundstage, transparent, with sl. coloration and very adequate bass impact, but all in all, the grado sound signature is the one you want!

Also,  give yourself a chance to try the Alessandro version of Grado.
I auditioned all the Grado headphones and bought my top 3 picks. (RS325is, RS1i and PS500)  I returned or sold all end fell in love with the Alessandro MS2i.
 
That is the end of my Grado journey ( I am pretty sure this time...) 
 
Mar 27, 2013 at 5:49 PM Post #6,630 of 65,799
I wanted to chime in as a follow up on my GS1k vs PS500 comparison. Just to refresh, I bought the 500s in June of last year and they pretty much instantly became my favorite headphone. In November, I had the chance to do a trade-in at my local audio shop on a pair of new GS1000s, so I took the chance to do that. At first the GS1ks were not competing as strongly as I'd hoped, with the 500s still holding my top spot. The GS's gradually seemed to improve, and I realized that they are more in need of a good amp whereas the 500s sound great out of just about anything. It's now been a few months, but I'm ready to say that although the GS1ks have closed the gap and I consider them a very nice headphone - and a beautiful LOOKING headphone - the PS500s are still the champ in my book. When you factor in the difference in price, it's even a more clear choice for me. That being said, I dont' regret buying the GS1ks for a minute...and I can even see how some might prefer them to others in the Grado line. I just happen to prefer the 500s a bit more. 
 
Next up, I want to pick up some RS-1s to play around with and compare them to the 500s. Then after that is done, I'll eventually take that one big step up Chrome Mountain! 
 
 
PS. And by the way, thanks to all who have been so active in this thread over the last few months. The other day I came on here and there were over FIFTY new responses in this thread over a 24hr period...thats way more active than it used to be, and I love hearing all the words of wisdom from current Grado owners, as well as the new accounts from those who are buying Grados for the first time. I look forward to reading everyone's takes each day! 
 

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