[Claritas]

For a while, based solely on the things I'd read (not any actual experience), I thought Grados were kind of laughably old-school, poor performing, screechy headphones for nostalgic people who didn't know good sound. Then I heard some... And realized just how massively some people's tastes differ from mine. For example, I love and respect Tyll to the ends of the earth (couldn't have a better spokesperson for the hobby IMO), but his dislike of Grado (and treble in general, unless it's on a Sennheiser) subtlely steers potential fans to other brands. JMO, of course.

What steered me away from Grados initially was the impression that Grados are for rock / metal and not much else. Then I found a thread recommending them for organ, and I honestly didn't believe it. But one day, I was listening to Bach using Koss clip ons amped just for fun and I really enjoyed it. I connected it in my mind with the Stratokosster and that thread about Grados for organ, so I decided to try the SRs -- and yep!

 

[bbophead]

 

Lots of thoughtful ideas, TPM.

I have never encountered this description of transducers being able to affect the actual pitch of a tone.  Since you claim that the tonality of a speaker can't be measured, I guess you're off the hook for technical proof.  Any guesses as to why this might be so, a speaker (headphone or loudspeaker) being able to affect pitch.  Your example would have the B&W 801 Nautilus reproducing A=440 as 448 or am I missing something?

Around A = 438 ish. A musical "step" doesn't correspond exactly to 10 kHz, but you've got the idea. You can actually measure it. Buy a tuner at a music shop and find test tones tracks. Then measure them. The reason a lot of monitors or IEMs for performers sound less warm is because they're tuned more flat than other gear. So they sound more clinical, give you more bare bones feedback. Any pitch won't be perfectly reproduced on a transducer, but you have some control over whether it's higher or lower. It's all about driver tuning. Most instruments never even hit a pitch perfectly.

Ultimately it also explains why some cans that are very neutral sound bland while other neutral cans sound great (in addition to other aspects of implementation) and some that measure horribly (like Grados) sound great.

I can almost guarantee you that the New York Phil does not tune to a=438.  a has been going up for quite a while now, not only here but in European orchestras.  Probably closer to 442, if not slightly higher.  I also think that any electronic instrument can be tuned exactly.  Why couln't it be?  Of course, the tones they produce have to be reproduced through transducers for us to hear them.  Your terms are confusing to me.  When one tunes flat, what do you mean?  I think you're also saying that a Nautilus loudspeaker will raise the pitch of a reproduced electronic tone..  I'm also puzzled by "A musical "step" doesn't correspond exactly to 10 kHz".  To me a musical step is from one note to the next note, so if a=440, then a#=446.16 hz.  We seem to be talking about different things.  Maybe some terminology has changed meanings since I got my music degree.

 

[ferday]

Around A = 438 ish. A musical "step" doesn't correspond exactly to 10 kHz, but you've got the idea. You can actually measure it. Buy a tuner at a music shop and find test tones tracks. Then measure them. The reason a lot of monitors or IEMs for performers sound less warm is because they're tuned more flat than other gear. So they sound more clinical, give you more bare bones feedback. Any pitch won't be perfectly reproduced on a transducer, but you have some control over whether it's higher or lower. It's all about driver tuning. Most instruments never even hit a pitch perfectly.

Ultimately it also explains why some cans that are very neutral sound bland while other neutral cans sound great (in addition to other aspects of implementation) and some that measure horribly (like Grados) sound great.

I'm don't agree at all, unless you can present some evidence

All a driver is doing is vibrating. It's really not a complex task seeing that the pitch is 100% defined by the frequency of vibration! I'm gonna say no way. I'd love to see some actual data showing otherwise, I find this theory very interesting...

Remember tone/timbre are not pitch, but are created by the frequency response (which itself contains harmonics and masking effects). Similar FR usually produces vaguely similar sounds (dark, bright) but even slight differences in FR make for a noticeable change in overall tone/timbre (but IMO the pitch stays the exact same!)

 

[Krutsch]

  I've noticed a lot musicians say the RS1i and other Grados most accurately replicate the sound of live music.

 
For me, I guess it depends on the type of music.  I had a revelation listening to a live performance from Anne-Sophie Mutter (sitting in row 5) who plays un-mic'd, but is a very aggressive violin soloist.  At one point during the performance, I starting thinking that the sound was a little dull or maybe muffled.  Could have been bad acoustics, but the venue (The Ordway in St. Paul, MN) is highly regarded.
 
That was a turning point for me and I realized I needed to branch out into some different phones.
 
My name is Ken and I'm a Grado-holic (chorus: "Hi Ken") ... I love my Grados - and for metal and large scale orchestra, they remain my favorite.  But they mostly sit on their beautiful Woo Audio aluminum stand these days 

 

[jimr101]

My name is Jim and I am a gradoholic. My addiction started in 1969 in the Opera houses in Paris. Somehow the acoustics of those master piece buildings built no doubt by the Louis before the days of electronics by master musicians was worth scaping my centimes every weekend just to sit in the nosebleed section reserved for students. The unamplified acoustics of these circular auditorium could only be compared to sitting inside grado cans. And there started the addiction. The tuning of the instruments,the thumping of the director's baton on the wooden floor demanding a religious silence in the magical musical sanctuary. And like a drug it lead me to the stronger stuff! Lord help me next here came the Marshall amps leading me my inevitable addiction to vacuum tube rolling. And by then I was so hooked I didn't care if these amps had all those anoying imperfections like the humming and buzing of the tube and yes even the occasional horrible scretches of the primitive non balance output cables. No it didn't bother me any more than the skeeky opra house 400 year old seats ss long as the angelic sounds keep piercing my soul. And if that wasn't enough next here came HiFidelity wars of the power amps of the 70's with all those wonderful magical amps from Japan like Pioneer and Marrantz, Kenwood. But of course the angels weren't done tempting me with all the soul of their music birthed in the Vietnam conflict brought home by their veterans in the sound laboratories of the likes of McIntosh and Grados. But like a true addict I did omit that there is more. OK I am a gradoholic, I admit it did start listening to the Beatles in 1964 on my crystal set with my first headphones to the BBC.......OK I'm jonesing now I have to go get another shot of rock and roll on my Grados.

 

[CH23]

This is off topic....but does anybody here have the Pink Floyd Disovery box set....I am just wondering how well the remasters are

I'd say they're true to the original releases.

Having said this, i have to say that i was born way too late to hear the original records in pristine condition, but i feel like they haven't tweaked these remasters too much.

 

[CH23]

For me, I guess it depends on the type of music.  I had a revelation listening to a live performance from Anne-Sophie Mutter (sitting in row 5) who plays un-mic'd, but is a very aggressive violin soloist.  At one point during the performance, I starting thinking that the sound was a little dull or maybe muffled.  Could have been bad acoustics, but the venue (The Ordway in St. Paul, MN) is highly regarded.

That was a turning point for me and I realized I needed to branch out into some different phones.

My name is Ken and I'm a Grado-holic (chorus: "Hi Ken") ... I love my Grados - and for metal and large scale orchestra, they remain my favorite.  But they mostly sit on their beautiful Woo Audio aluminum stand these days :confused_face(1):

We are here to help you and to support you. *claps*

 

[HarleyZH]

  That's how I see Prog also: "PT and countless others" 

 
I'm still sifting through the 70's and can't keep up also. 
 
On a more serious note, there's indeed loads of new great music coming out or yet to be discovered. The Classical catalog is endless and Jazz will never grow old. Rock will keep on shifting colors and tone with many sub genres ever developing. Listening now to the Oblivion (TES Game) soundtrack and loving it... is it Classical lol?

If you haven't tried them, the soundtracks the games: Journey, Deus Ex Human Revolution (the 20+ track version), Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, Splinter Cell double agent are all well worth checking out. 

 

[whirlwind]

 

This is off topic....but does anybody here have the Pink Floyd Disovery box set....I am just wondering how well the remasters are

I'd say they're true to the original releases.

Having said this, i have to say that i was born way too late to hear the original records in pristine condition, but i feel like they haven't tweaked these remasters too much.

 
Beautiful.....thanks.

 

[bassboysam]

I'm don't agree at all, unless you can present some evidence

All a driver is doing is vibrating. It's really not a complex task seeing that the pitch is 100% defined by the frequency of vibration! I'm gonna say no way. I'd love to see some actual data showing otherwise, I find this theory very interesting...

Remember tone/timbre are not pitch, but are created by the frequency response (which itself contains harmonics and masking effects). Similar FR usually produces vaguely similar sounds (dark, bright) but even slight differences in FR make for a noticeable change in overall tone/timbre (but IMO the pitch stays the exact same!)

Agree. If a driver affects pitch then any instrument being amplified and using speakers would never be in tune with each other.

 

[xaval]

  If you haven't tried them, the soundtracks the games: Journey, Deus Ex Human Revolution (the 20+ track version), Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, Splinter Cell double agent are all well worth checking out. 

I'll take those suggestions, thanks for that! Played ME and DA and I'm sure I'll love those in particular.
 
LOTR is also a masterpiece, all 3 of them:
- The Fellowship of the Ring
- The Two Towers
- The Return of the King

 

[HarleyZH]

  I'll take those suggestions, thanks for that! Played ME and DA and I'm sure I'll love those in particular.
 
LOTR is also a masterpiece, all 3 of them:
- The Fellowship of the Ring
- The Two Towers
- The Return of the King

The Trilogy soundtrack is amazing. Cowboy Bebop (anime) has a fantastic Jazzy soundtrack if you enjoy Jazz. Soundtracks these days are remarkable a fair bit of the time, too many to list off sometimes.

 

[snarfarlarkus]

Would the Grado RS1e or RS2e be considered an upgrade over the LCD2?

 

[LCfiner]

sidegrade if you like a lively sound and downgrade if you like deep bass and a darker sound.
 
(FWIW, I had an RS2 - first high ed grado - and LCD2 side by side in late 2010 and preferred the RS2 for the midrange)

 

[Justin_Time]

.......
On the idea that musicians "know" real sound I have this to say: no amount of measurements or charts will ever tell you the tonality of a speaker. Measurements are important and helpful, but one thing never touched on is tonal tuning. Is the headphone slightly sharp? Is it pitched flat? Does it play an A at 440khz or 444, or 438? Most headphones that are warm sounding and super popular are slightly sharp, and for that reason, no good for mastering, monitoring, etc. a good musician will notice that the can sounds out of tune. Just throwing that out there, because it's not often mentioned. (I own Grados for the record. Tonality is spectacularly accurate, partly because they're tuned by ear, even though they're not as technical or "neutral" as other cans. For example: B&W makes great speakers, but they sound cold and sterile to me. I took a tuner and measure some test tones on an 801 nautilus, and it was about an eight step sharp. No thank you)

Just my take on it, sorry for the long post.

Happy Listening

Agreed with many interesting points you made.

However, i never encountered speakers or headphones, both transducers, that fail to reproduce the pitch (fundamentals) correctly! The overtones (harmonics) can be and usually are imperfect, but the fundamentals!?

I would first check the source--in the old days, the turntable speed was often off slightly--as I cannot see how a transducer could ever change the frequencies of the signals.
And make a note sharper!?

Could someone enlighten me on this?