[ddmt]

i have the exact opposite experience

+1

BTW While waiting for the copper cable for my DM6, I’ve been listening the KPE more and more, at first don’t really like since it sounds thinner and brighter but now I like it more than the DM6. Darn it brain!

 

[DjunedAhmed]

Sorry I've somehow missed your post. Your problem are the dongles, and the "dullness" comes from crosstalk.

Do you guys know why almost everything is V-shaped on the mainstream? Because V-shaped signature "compensates" for crappy sources with bad crosstalk. I will give you an example. The **** 4in1 that my friend has (it's 32ohms, so relatively harder to drive), is EXTREMELY V-shaped on my Axon 7/mini. It sounds just too much. But, on his Samsung Galaxy S7 (which has very crappy DAC/AMP with huge crosstalk), it sounds very balanced, because the V - shaped signature "helps" the missing dynamics from a crappy source.

If you were wondering why mostly everything is V-shaped tuned on the market, that's the reason. It compensates for crappy sources, and mostly every source (phones, laptops, computers, DONGLES) is crap.

Here is a picture of what I mean:



I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say here. I've made a post a couple of pages back, with a small experiment everybody can do, using crossfade DSP (or even mono). That's exactly what is happening with an IEM when crosstalk happens - it sounds DULL.

Remember when HBB said that the DM6 is completely transparent here?:




That's what he meant by the DM6 being transparent. He was actually addressing a person that was calling the DM6 "dull" as well, so here is why. I hope that solves the mysteries. HBB's sources are flawless, and the SE100 he used is very neutral/analytical, so it SINGS with the DM6. That's why he doesn't hear his DM6 as "dull", but as lively and open.

In short, dongles are cr*p, most phones are cr*p, you need a better source, with the least channel leakage/crosstalk as possible, in order to enjoy the DM6 and it's dynamics. You can check crosstalk measurements for different phones on GSM arena. Think of it as important as SNR. 16bit/44.1kHz requires no less than 96dB noise floor. Same numbers apply to crosstalk as well. If you check the post of @mr.karmalicious abour different dongle measurements, and my response to him here, you will get the picture. If there are no dynamics with your source, you wont have them on the DM6 as well, because it's not compensating for crappy sources by being a V-shape. It is transparent. You feed it bad signal, it's gonna sound like a bad signal was fed to it.

That's it. I hope you don't sell you DM6, but rather get a better source, to hear it as intended. Cheers!

wow, never thought about crosstalk because i never know what it means...now, i have something to learn about...

I have a DX150 Amp6 to pair with balanced DM6, on paper it says crosstalk at -119db...does it mean proper ? because my DM6 sound exactly what i expect (still with that sibilance issue) and lots of my friend with different daps just say that DM6 sounded off...

 

[chinmie]

+1

BTW While waiting for the copper cable for my DM6, I’ve been listening the KPE more and more, at first don’t really like since it sounds thinner and brighter but now I like it more than the DM6. Darn it brain!

that's the same thing that happened when i first got the DM6. i used to think the DM6 is too warm and fat on the mids because i was accustomed to the Kanas and Ety at that moment. nowadays i feel the Kanas and the Ety are a bit thin! ooo how the ears change their preference from time to time, we're forced to accommodate by owning multiple flavors of cans

 

[perfecious]

wow, never thought about crosstalk because i never know what it means...now, i have something to learn about...

I have a DX150 Amp6 to pair with balanced DM6, on paper it says crosstalk at -119db...does it mean proper ? because my DM6 sound exactly what i expect (still with that sibilance issue) and lots of my friend with different daps just say that DM6 sounded off...

-119db crosstalk is insanely good. You will get outstanding soundstage and imaging (dynamics, in simple terms). Now I'm actually interested in the iBasso offerings. DX150 does use the same DAC as the Big Axon (AK4490EQ), but they probably set up the amps with the least coloration as possible (many reviews say the iBasso DAPs are clinical/analytical/neutral/cold, so it's a win, especially the DX200 with the ESS DAC).

The SNR is slightly not that great on the DX150 at (117-118). 24bit audio for example requires 144db SNR (signal-to-noise-ratio).The DX150 is 117, which is average for a good DAP, but still insanely good (much better than the Axon 7/mini for example).

The physical limitations of tech right now is probably around 135dB max anyway, and if your music library is 16/44.1, you are perfect. Ideal 16bit sound is at the 96dB. So, the Hiby R6 PRO would beat the DX150 when it comes to noise floor with HiRes audio, but that doesn't matter as much as crosstalk. People always put the SNR as the most important thing, when they should be looking at the crosstalk, which makes the biggest difference when it comes to sound quality.

 

[chinmie]

great thing that @perfecious brought up the topic about crosstalk. indeed the difference between regular phones and cheaper DAPs compared to the better ones is in staging, especially on the Z axis/ front to back staging. phones usually have a flatter frontal staging. the DM6 is not particularly wide iem, but it is really great in frontal depth. using it with phones would really limit it's full potential

 

[DjunedAhmed]

-119db crosstalk is insanely good. You will get outstanding soundstage and imaging (dynamics, in simple terms). Now I'm actually interested in the iBasso offerings. DX150 does use the same DAC as the Big Axon (AK4490EQ), but they probably set up the amps with the least coloration as possible (many reviews say the iBasso DAPs are clinical/analytical/neutral/cold, so it's a win, especially the DX200 with the ESS DAC).

The SNR is slightly not that great on the DX150 at (117-118). 24bit audio for example requires 144db SNR (signal-to-noise-ratio).The DX150 is 117, which is average for a good DAP, but still insanely good (much better than the Axon 7/mini for example).

The physical limitations of tech right now is probably around 135dB max anyway, and if your music library is 16/44.1, you are perfect. Ideal 16bit sound is at the 96dB. So, the Hiby R6 PRO would beat the DX150 when it comes to noise floor with HiRes audio, but that doesn't matter as much as crosstalk. People always put the SNR as the most important thing, when they should be looking at the crosstalk, which makes the biggest difference when it comes to sound quality.

and now i'm interested in their Amp8 modules, by your explanation it should almost perfect with the SNR and Crosstalk...too bad it doesn't have SE or lineout...

btw, thanks a lot man...that's an enlightenment, time to research more...lol

 

[Redcarmoose]

*TIP for those lacking Bass Presence*

There is more to a good seal than just pushing earphones deep.

I wanted to share my odd experience with you this morning as it may help those that complain they can’t hear good bass even though they have a good seal.

So after another great listening session last night I picked up the DM6 for some more of the goodness. I was curious how good the music would sound in the daytime when the hearing senses are not so elevated.

Soon as I plugged in the earphones to listen to a track i was struck by the almost complete absence of sub bass. I reinserted my earphones and when this did not help i rebooted the dap thinking maybe the app/os was playing up. This did not help the matter also and I began to wonder if the DM6 had possibly become faulty.

After more checks I went back and tried to reinsert the earphones more carefully with some thought.
I realised that i wasn’t inserting the earphones as I previously did. I start with them slightly twisted forward, insert and than twist back so that the cable lines up at the an angle to go over the ears neatly.

NEXT the important step for me was to slightly tilt the earphones outwards so that their opening lines up with my ear canals. And voila deep rich bass was restored and a relief.

So lesson here is don’t simply push in the earphones and assume that’s it. As well as a good seal (not crazy vacuum strong) you may also need to angle the earphones so they line up with your ear canals. We all have quite different ears so you will need to experiment and figure where exactly the earphones need to sit for you. Of course some will be fortunate enough to be able to just insert them in straight flush without any tilting etc.

Hope this helps those who are not able to appreciate the good bass from DM6.

I agree 100% on all aspects of this post. The DM6 is tricky in that even if it seems like it has an airtight fit, it may still need to be adjusted further to get the best sound. Now to add another aspect; different tips can have varied degrees of either helping with making the fit easy, or go the opposite direction. And........... all of the time, different IEM placement is creating different perceptions of tuning. It’s one of the main reasons why so many have a different idea as to what the true sound characteristics are. Not to mention other variables like cable material, DAP character and bore circumference. It’s almost as if you not only need to experiment with a random and excessive range of different IEM tips, but then experiment with the physical placement also.

After you get to know the tip and correct “rotation” as you describe it; you can then fairly quickly get a level of consistency in regard to response tone.

In some cases (with other brands of IEMs) you can listen for outside noise and after the outside noise is fully occluded you KNOW you have an airtight fit. But.......with the DM6 you can get it to seat in a place, block outside noise, and still not be in the right place for the best optimal bass response. It’s simply not like an on and off light switch. It’s an art to getting them in place. But after that skill is leaned it can be replicated every time.

 

[nishan99]

just recivied mine from linsoul, ordered 24th of December. I hope they worth the wait.

 

[MariusAB]

just recivied mine from linsoul, ordered 24th of December. I hope they worth the wait.

You will have to say that, i heard somewhere that it's worth.

 

[hakuzen]

Impedance on phones is "variable", and they switch to different impedance modes depending on the impedance of what is plugged in. But yeah, that phone has that problem, and you remember correctly. Although the problem, as I've said, is mainly because of the 20ohm impedance of the DM6, which is in the middle of nowhere, and the axon 7 runs at the 32ohm threshold, which is creating a mess. There is no problem with IEMs that are at exactly 16ohm, and 32ohm and probably above. The TRN V80 for example is 28ohms, the axon 7 works with it in 32ohms, and it is noisy and hissing. Nowhere near what the disparity from 20 to 32ohms does with the DM6 though... That's why I'm even hearing coil-whine when scrolling the screen.

So yeah, as I've said, the perfect adapter for me would be 12ohm, but I will have to make my own. And that still is not going to help with the warm signature of the AK4490 DAC as well. So, the Axon 7 output wouldn't work well with the DM6, even if the internal impedance is corrected.

heard axon 7 has a 63ohms resistor in serie at the output. don't know what you mean with "variable". you should measure output impedance at both modes, standard and hifi, to check it and solve the doubts.
if output impedance is very high in both modes (which i suspect of), then you better look for other sources for your multi-BA iems.

 

[Tony51]

Your observations are 100% on point. The samsung s7 edge which I tested doesn't seemed to have as extreme of a coloration as the Axon 7, thus it sounds better than the Axon 7, but the problem is, the S7/edge have huge crosstalk, which kills imaging and soundstage, and makes it sound dull. I've explained it here. Actually, the regular HiFi setting on the Axon 7 and the S7 edge sound very similar. The too much warmness on the Axon 7 has the same effect on the DM6, as the crosstalk does with the S7/edge, at least to my ears. Both are obviously crap, and completely kill the DM6 and it's capabilities.

It's such a shame for the Axon 7... This thing has been killin' everything on his path till this point, and then the 20ohm (hyper sensitive) DM6 comes along, and the thing basically falls flat on it's face. The Axon 7 mini is great though. Still some hiss, but at least ZTE did a better job with it apparently. The newer, and more neutral AK4962 DAC/ADC combo on it helps greatly as well.

The Axon 7 sounds great with very cold/analytical IEMs like the TinAudio T2's for example. While the Mini makes them sound even more cold and metalic.

- - -

Just to ask, is there anybody here that has a Hiby DAP (R3, R6 PRO)? Could you try playing with the "temperature" slider in within the MSEB tuner? Colder/analytical should increase the wideness of the sound-stage with the DM6 greatly, as well as imaging accuracy. And be sure to run it in balanced. I've just checked the crosstalk on the Hiby R6 PRO on their specifications, and that's worse than a freaking phone What?! Even worse than the R6 (68dB vs 77dB)...



That's BS if true. The axons have 95dB, AND THEY ARE SINGLE ENDED!

No wonder people saying/reporting that balanced make such a difference with their DAPs and the DM6. Is every DAP this crappy on single end? Because if that's the case, A PHONE beats them.

I've made a screenshot this time, because last time I've mentioned the SNR on the Hiby R6 PRO of Single end vs Balanced to prove a point, for some reason they have edited it on their site. Not sure if that's just a mistake their made, or are trying to hide something here. You can't hide from me, Hiby! I'm everywhere. Plus, these things CAN be measured. You wouldn't be able to fool anyone, if you're trying to hide something. Just a warning. I am about honesty and truth.

On my Fiio X7mk2, the unbalanced sounds better than balanced. Go figure! The dm6 shine playing unbalanced.
As to the hibH R6 pro....I should have it in my possession late next week.

Tony

 

[turbomustang84]

Well I've decided for me the DM6 is just too much hassle to obtain.
So I just ordered the Kanas Pro and because I really enjoy my Tin Audio T2 Pros I'm really looking forward to the T3 from Tin Audio next month.
I will still keep my eyes open for a set DM6 in the for sell section and on eBay.

But I already ordered a DM6 set and was given a phony tracking number and got my money back from PayPal.

I won't even order from Massdrop if its more than a month unless it's a huge discount .

So these may be the best thing since sliced bread but I'm just not willing to jump through hoops.

Now if I was offered a set of Sennheiser HD800 for $500 then I might be willing to wait a couple months but there is just too many good IEMs out there

 

[bartolomeu]

On my Fiio X7mk2, the unbalanced sounds better than balanced. Go figure! The dm6 shine playing unbalanced.
As to the hibH R6 pro....I should have it in my possession late next week.

Tony

I'm jealous! Where are you getting your Hiby R6 Pro from?

 

[darkwing]

just recivied mine from linsoul, ordered 24th of December. I hope they worth the wait.

yes, it is worth it, some of the people here have been waiting since 11/11 lol

 

[Tony51]

I'm jealous! Where are you getting your Hiby R6 Pro from?

I'm getting it from musicteck via Amazon.

I reached out to them when I knew they were about to be released and told him if he can drop me an email as soon as gets them in and can he sell via Amazon since I have hundreds of points there and he sure did. I wasted no time. They are 799.00 though but at 750mW of power, I want it bad since I won't have to pair with a portabl amp. The dm6 are easy to run but I have noticed that even easy to drive IEMs and headphones almost always shine with lots of headroom power. I'm really excited to get the R6 pro. Can't wait.