BGVP discussion thread DM7/ DM6/DMG and NEW BA series
Feb 2, 2019 at 11:10 AM Post #2,161 of 5,305

Tony51

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I'm jealous! Where are you getting your Hiby R6 Pro from?

I just looked and it seems that musicteck on Amazon has some Hiby R6 pro available as we speak. FYI.
 
Feb 2, 2019 at 11:12 AM Post #2,162 of 5,305

bartolomeu

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I'm getting it from musicteck via Amazon.

I reached out to them when I knew they were about to be released and told him if he can drop me an email as soon as gets them in and can he sell via Amazon since I have hundreds of points there and he sure did. I wasted no time. They are 799.00 though but at 750mW of power, I want it bad since I won't have to pair with a portabl amp. The dm6 are easy to run but I have noticed that even easy to drive IEMs and headphones almost always shine with lots of headroom power. I'm really excited to get the R6 pro. Can't wait.

I look forward to your impressions of the GBVP DM6 with the Hiby R6 Pro, especially the balanced output! :L3000:
 
Feb 2, 2019 at 11:17 AM Post #2,163 of 5,305

archy121

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So many faces depending on your setup - It’s why I described it as

Dr. Jekyll & Mr.Hyde of IEM’s


I’m a testament to the fact that with patience this IEM can be tamed and once that’s done you will realise what a truly remarkable beast it is.
It’s a bargain and I’m won’t be buying another IEM for a long while.

So once again to those new or still struggling to tame the DM6 try the following:

1. Burnin to 50hrs minimum for starters.

Forget the old debate and just do it. 50 hrs is the first point at which you will see some changes in sound from IEM. It will not remove all sibilance or graininess if you are detecting that around the 7k frequency range but will sound smoother.

*UPDATE* Once I had 200hrs usage/burn in I personally detected a huge change. The overall signature became lot smoother, more coherent and without any sibilance or graininess even with the supplied SPC cable. It became The DM6 many expected on day one. Other owners have confirmed this change also so it is really worth getting 200hrs before deciding on the DM6.
I used Cascade Burn In MP3 to rapidly increase usage time by leaving it running over night 24 hrs at a time. I belive the burn in audio had great affect in taming the high frequency range .You can download it here:

https://www.taralabs.com/cascade-noise-burn-in



2. Change tips - I have had best results with Philips ones that did lot to reduce sibilance further and improve lows. Better for me than Symbio and many others I rolled inc foam & JVC range. For
me Wide bore are better than narrow for sibliance control. I purchased mine years back. Following is link to what look to be exactly same.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/291973060070


Wide bore tips seem to help many and some report success with narrow. All to do with your inner ear canals I guess.

*UPDATE* I was able to swap to Spinfit tips after 200hrs use on my DM6 when it no longer had sibilant or grainy sound issue. These tips have a more narrow bore than the Philips and Symbios and I found this helped to tighten the bass and reveal more detail in the highs. They also fit very firmly on the DM6 nozzle and don’t pop off by themselves.

*UPDATE* I also found out that depending of how far you slide the tips down the nozzle of the DM6 it changes the amount of bass. Eg pushing down the tip so that it is almost flush with nozzle end reduces bass and the opposite occurs the more the tip protrudes above the nozzle.


3. Make sure to get ‘Correct Angle’ fit in ear. This does not simply mean insert for good seal alone. You should be able to hear some of the best deepest bass when it’s correct. See earlier post for details.

4. Feed it quality encoded tracks. Higher the quality the more it shines. Sounds sublime with 24/192 & DSD. Why else did you buy such quality IEM’s ?

5. Change cable to pure copper/OCC to further smooth the signature if needed. I’m very comfortable now using supplied SPC after taking above steps. I can’t tolerate sibilance ie ex1000 big no no. Smooth and silky over detailed sharp highs.

6. Use a good source as these IEM’s are very sensitive. I’m mainly using v30 in High Impedance Mode and it sounds great with DM6

7. If you are using an Android phone as your DAP use a decent audiophile Media player like UAPP or Neutron for locally stored 44khz lossless files. Android natively upsamples 44khz to 48khz and this will create background hiss with the DM6 because it has high sensitivity and low impedance.

8. To overcome any background hiss on other sources such PC, you can buy the IFI EarBuddy.
Alternatively you can use impedance adapters that come in various OHM sizes.




TIP For those not getting a good seal & experiencing Lack of Bass

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bgvp-dm6-and-dmg-discussion-thread.894331/page-143#post-14752739

EDIT - UPDATE - More tips and longer term impressions after using new copper cable and more usage time.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bgvp-dm6-and-dmg-discussion-thread.894331/page-189#post-14822270



P0rn time :p

DCD9956E-2EAF-4ACC-BADA-ECBF263E9E45.jpeg



........ all of the time, different IEM placement is creating different perceptions of tuning. It’s one of the main reasons why so many have a different idea as to what the true sound characteristics are. Not to mention other variables like cable material, DAP character and bore circumference. ....

...with the DM6 you can get it to seat in a place, block outside noise, and still not be in the right place for the best optimal bass response. It’s simply not like an on and off light switch.

@Hawaiibadboy maybe you can put tips like these on your first thread post to help people out.

@nishan99 take note buddy and persevere.
 
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Feb 2, 2019 at 11:37 AM Post #2,164 of 5,305

viper2377

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Do you have a link o those tips?



So many faces depending on your setup - It’s why I described it as

Dr. Jekyll & Mr.Hyde of IEM’s


I’m a testament to the fact that with patience this IEM can be tamed and once that’s done you will realise what a truly remarkable beast it is.
It’s a bargain and I’m won’t be buying another IEM for a long while.

So once again to those new or still struggling to tame the DM6 try the following:

1. Burnin to 50hrs. Forget the old debate and just do it.

2. Change tips - I have had best results with Philips ones that did lot to reduce sibilance further and improve lows. Better for me than Symbio and many others I rolled inc foam & JVC.

3. Make sure to get ‘Correct Angle’ fit in ear. This does not simply mean insert for good seal alone. You should be able to hear some of the best deepest bass when it’s correct.

4. Feed it quality encoded tracks. Higher the quality the more it shines. Sounds sublime with 24/192 & DSD.
Why else buy such quality IEM’s ?

5. Change cable to pure copper/OCC to further smooth the signature if needed. I’m very comfortable now using supplied SPC after taking above steps. I can’t tolerate sibilance ie ex1000 big no no. Smooth and silky over over detailed sharp highs.
I have BGVP OCC on order.

6. Use a good source as these IEM’s are very sensitive. I’m mainly using v30 in High Impedance Mode and it sounds great with DM6.


I’m really enjoying the DM6 now and I can’t get enough time with them. I look forward to how it changes further when I add the OCC cable.

P0rn time :p






@Hawaiibadboy maybe you can put tips like these on your first thread post to help people out.

@nishan99 take note buddy and persevere.
 
Feb 2, 2019 at 11:42 AM Post #2,165 of 5,305

archy121

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Feb 2, 2019 at 1:29 PM Post #2,166 of 5,305

MariusAB

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So many faces depending on your setup - It’s why I described it as

Dr. Jekyll & Mr.Hyde of IEM’s


I’m a testament to the fact that with patience this IEM can be tamed and once that’s done you will realise what a truly remarkable beast it is.
It’s a bargain and I’m won’t be buying another IEM for a long while.

So once again to those new or still struggling to tame the DM6 try the following:

1. Burnin to 50hrs. Forget the old debate and just do it.

2. Change tips - I have had best results with Philips ones that did lot to reduce sibilance further and improve lows. Better for me than Symbio and many others I rolled inc foam & JVC. Wide more are better than narrow for sibliance conrrol IMO.

3. Make sure to get ‘Correct Angle’ fit in ear. This does not simply mean insert for good seal alone. You should be able to hear some of the best deepest bass when it’s correct.

4. Feed it quality encoded tracks. Higher the quality the more it shines. Sounds sublime with 24/192 & DSD.
Why else buy such quality IEM’s ?

5. Change cable to pure copper/OCC to further smooth the signature if needed. I’m very comfortable now using supplied SPC after taking above steps. I can’t tolerate sibilance ie ex1000 big no no. Smooth and silky over over detailed sharp highs.
I have BGVP OCC on order.

6. Use a good source as these IEM’s are very sensitive. I’m mainly using v30 in High Impedance Mode and it sounds great with DM6.


I’m really enjoying the DM6 now and I can’t get enough time with them. I look forward to how it changes further when I add the OCC cable.

P0rn time :p






@Hawaiibadboy maybe you can put tips like these on your first thread post to help people out.

@nishan99 take note buddy and persevere.
These tips i see in the photo are wider with wider bore than symbio w ?. I also have tried such form tips and liked them even more than symbio w peeled. More clear highs and at the same time sibilance is reduced more, also soundstage is wider
 
Feb 2, 2019 at 1:45 PM Post #2,167 of 5,305

archy121

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These tips i see in the photo are wider with wider bore than symbio w ?. I also have tried such form tips and liked them even more than symbio w peeled. More clear highs and at the same time sibilance is reduced more, also soundstage is wider

About same size bore. I think the key difference is more supple silicone and this affects the sound it transfers.
 
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Feb 2, 2019 at 2:44 PM Post #2,169 of 5,305

Tony51

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Feb 2, 2019 at 2:46 PM Post #2,170 of 5,305

Tony51

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I look forward to your impressions of the GBVP DM6 with the Hiby R6 Pro, especially the balanced output! :L3000:

Crap, they just arrived...but I'm not home. I have to wait till Monday to pick up the bad boy.
 
Feb 2, 2019 at 5:52 PM Post #2,173 of 5,305

Tony51

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Variable (or more like adaptable) means that the internals detect the impedance of the headphone/IEM/AUX, and switch to the optimal amplification/regime (not overdriving or underpowering). All consumer devices have that "feature" these days (capless amps ftw), but it's usually at specific thresholds. like 8ohm, 16ohm, 32ohm, (and I'm not sure about anything above, other than 100, 300 and 600ohms, which are the very high impedances, but these are usually for headphones/cans, and I'm not a fan of these things, that's why I don't know much about them), and the rest is compensated digitally.

What I do know, is that the A7 is running in "high impedance mode" (the next threshold at 32ohms) with anything above 16ohms. That's why the 20ohm DM6 is basically "overamplified", and because of the "coloration" of the DAC, that coloration gets amplified extremely, and ruines the DM6. That woulnt've been a problem at all, if the DM6 was 32 ohms, or there is an adapter that gets it to 32ohms, which would be optimal. That said, I think an 80ohm adapter would be better, because it will make it 100ohms, which I'm sure is another "standard" threshold, that the A7 (or any other source) can work optimally at.

I hope i'm making sense with this. I will see how the 20ohm adapter I've ordered works, but I think I've made a mistake, and should've gotten the 80ohm one. But, I do plan on "gutting" it, and making it 12ohms, which would be ideal, especially when it comes to battery life. If I'm successful, I will share the results and a tutorial on how to make it 12ohm.

BTW, I gave an example about one of the crappiest DAC/AMP implementations, with my "fancy" on-board sound. With that thing, there ARE no thresholds, there is no adaptive/variable impedance mode, it's all 600ohms or nothing. I've made a recording of what that sounds like on the DM6 here.

I remember ASUS having problems when they initially started using adaptable impedance on their motherboards a few years ago, where it would glitch, and people had their gear blown up and even ears damaged, from suddenly switching from low impedance to high. GIGABYTE (my mobo) didn't even bother implementing adaptable impedance for the amp at that time. That's why, when plug in the DM6 for example, the max volume with it is around 5-7%, and the noise as you can see from the sample above, is basically 60% of the signal.

That's pretty much why tonality/ frequency response changes with hyper sensitive multi BA IEMs with uneven impedance curves. the smallest "coloration" of a DAC/AMP (and they all have some sort of that, there is no perfect neutral device), gets extremely amplified, to a point where it changes everything.

But yeah, I need a better source for the DM6 that's for sure. And I will get an usb audio interface to measure all of these things soon. :)




I've just checked the Fiio. They do recommend running low-impedance headphones/IEMs on the single end (probably because of the noise mostly). Only hard stuff should be ran on the balanced, which means they did it properly. The R6 pro is kinda messed up though, and you will need to run it in balanced. It's single end is bad (so bad that I wonder why they even bothered with it), based on their own specifications (I mean, it could be an error on their site, but that's some very BIG error to make). Please share your experiences with it, single-end vs balanced, just to confirm or deny what we are speculating. :)

Ok noted, I will check both out. The seller was sending me the 4.4mm adapter with it so I won't need to purchase one. Seller is also sending me a case.
P.s I have had the Fiio X7mk2 for a year now and I try the balance n unbalanced periodically to see if it's my ears or if it needs to burn in some more and no matter what headphones or iem I use, it never sounds better than unbalanced. It's mind boggling to me. I have two different balanced adapters and both sound exactly the same. At first you think it sounds better, then as you listen further you realize it's not.
I have about 30 very good headphones and several IEMs. Hmmm weird.
The dm6 sounds terrific on the Fiio X7mk2 unbalanced.
Keep you posted.
 
Feb 2, 2019 at 9:08 PM Post #2,174 of 5,305

archy121

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I hope i'm making sense with this. I will see how the 20ohm adapter I've ordered works, but I think I've made a mistake, and should've gotten the 80ohm one. But, I do plan on "gutting" it, and making it 12ohms, which would be ideal, especially when it comes to battery life. If I'm successful, I will share the results and a tutorial on how to make it 12ohm.

Please let me know if the 20ohm adapter can help to tame the background hiss by android upsampling to 48k. I really wanted to be free from the curse of the Dongles..

Spotify, Deezer and Tidal apps are not sounding very nice with DM6 because of its sensitivity and low ohm. UAPP is helping with Tidal as it doesn’t upsample 44k and I’m better off using iPhone for Spotify/Deezer as things stand. I would prefer to only use the LG V30 as the DAP so I need a fix.
 
Feb 2, 2019 at 11:34 PM Post #2,175 of 5,305

hakuzen

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Variable (or more like adaptable) means that the internals detect the impedance of the headphone/IEM/AUX, and switch to the optimal amplification/regime (not overdriving or underpowering). All consumer devices have that "feature" these days (capless amps ftw), but it's usually at specific thresholds. like 8ohm, 16ohm, 32ohm, (and I'm not sure about anything above, other than 100, 300 and 600ohms, which are the very high impedances, but these are usually for headphones/cans, and I'm not a fan of these things, that's why I don't know much about them), and the rest is compensated digitally.

What I do know, is that the A7 is running in "high impedance mode" (the next threshold at 32ohms) with anything above 16ohms. That's why the 20ohm DM6 is basically "overamplified", and because of the "coloration" of the DAC, that coloration gets amplified extremely, and ruines the DM6. That woulnt've been a problem at all, if the DM6 was 32 ohms, or there is an adapter that gets it to 32ohms, which would be optimal. That said, I think an 80ohm adapter would be better, because it will make it 100ohms, which I'm sure is another "standard" threshold, that the A7 (or any other source) can work optimally at.

I hope i'm making sense with this. I will see how the 20ohm adapter I've ordered works, but I think I've made a mistake, and should've gotten the 80ohm one. But, I do plan on "gutting" it, and making it 12ohms, which would be ideal, especially when it comes to battery life. If I'm successful, I will share the results and a tutorial on how to make it 12ohm.

BTW, I gave an example about one of the crappiest DAC/AMP implementations, with my "fancy" on-board sound. With that thing, there ARE no thresholds, there is no adaptive/variable impedance mode, it's all 600ohms or nothing. I've made a recording of what that sounds like on the DM6 here.

I remember ASUS having problems when they initially started using adaptable impedance on their motherboards a few years ago, where it would glitch, and people had their gear blown up and even ears damaged, from suddenly switching from low impedance to high. GIGABYTE (my mobo) didn't even bother implementing adaptable impedance for the amp at that time. That's why, when plug in the DM6 for example, the max volume with it is around 5-7%, and the noise as you can see from the sample above, is basically 60% of the signal.

That's pretty much why tonality/ frequency response changes with hyper sensitive multi BA IEMs with uneven impedance curves. the smallest "coloration" of a DAC/AMP (and they all have some sort of that, there is no perfect neutral device), gets extremely amplified, to a point where it changes everything.

But yeah, I need a better source for the DM6 that's for sure. And I will get an usb audio interface to measure all of these things soon. :)
i don't own an axon 7, but these are my guesses. i might be wrong, if someone knows more info, please correct me.

none of the DACs of the axon 7 (AK4961 -standard mode- and AK4490 -hifi mode-) are colored. they provide flat frequency response, as you showed in your graph (white line):
10234802.png


it might use different amplification (as well as different DAC) for each mode, to adapt amplification gain to the ear/headphones. decreasing gain by using resistors would be absurd.
but the amplification should be flat as well, except if they implemented a weird amplification, which i doubt, and if no DSP, EQ, boosts, or other alterations are applied.

let me insist on it: the coloration you get is not due to DAC nor amplification, but due to high output impedance probably.
you can check it by measuring with rmaa, like you did, ensuring DSPs are disabled, using flat impedance headphones or iems (only dynamic drivers) of around 20ohms, and then using your multi-BA DM6 (no flat impedance).
you'll probably get much more alteration with the latter.

and then, you'd earn nothing by using a regular impedance adapter (tonal alteration would be even worse).
 
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