[AncientSw0rd]

DM6 sounds pretty dang good on my V30...

 

[Tony51]

I have tried both the HiBy Music App and the FiiO Music App (lossless files) as well as Spotify (320K) and Tidal (lossless) and all just sound a bit flat with the iPhone X and the lighting to 3.5mm adaptor to me. It sounds good enough but it just seems to lack any real treble extension or bass to me. The model of my adaptor is the A1749 but I tried this dongle in Hong Kong in January and it sounded really nice...

https://www.orb-audio.jp/english/lightning35.html

PS - I am looking at the AK SR15 so I will see how that goes and if it is still dull then I will get my ears checked

Anyone using their smart phones, androAn or otherwise, will never possess the true sound of the dm6. No matter what anyone tells you, if the dap has no power, it will not sound to it's full potential. Anything less than 150mw and under is a WEAK dap!! Stay clear Even if the IEMs are low impedance. Aim for daps with power and better yet, paired them with a pirtport amp.....yulll never go back. These dm6 can pound some serious bass n detail.
Now waiting on the Hiby R6 pro which is in route as we speak with 750mW of balanced output power. Won't need a separate amp with this baby.

Also, those with Fiio X7mk2 n the X5, a major software update is available as of yesterday. Go get it.

 

[mr.karmalicious]

@chinmie @mr.karmalicious i think the criticism is being pointed at the iPhone adapter and not DM6.

Oh, I know, it's just... https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm

(I.e., it seems like one shouldn't have an issue with that adapter unless they're trying to drive high impedance, low sensitivity headphones, or they're used to something literally more than order of magnitude more expensive? or they require 96khz sampling, which honestly doesn't make much sense to me in terms of the Fourier analysis but whatever.)

 

[archy121]

Anyone using their smart phones, androAn or otherwise, will never possess the true sound of the dm6. No matter what anyone tells you, if the dap has no power, it will not sound to it's full potential. Anything less than 150mw and under is a WEAK dap!! Stay clear Even if the IEMs are low impedance. Aim for daps with power and better yet, paired them with a pirtport amp.....yulll never go back. These dm6 can pound some serious bass n detail.
Now waiting on the Hiby R6 pro which is in route as we speak with 750mW of balanced output power. Won't need a separate amp with this baby.

Also, those with Fiio X7mk2 n the X5, a major software update is available as of yesterday. Go get it.

The LG V30 has built in amps that can kick in to allow it to drive upto 600ohm headphones.

Do you think it has satisfactory output to run the DM6 properly ? (Not sarcasm)

 

[battosai]

Ok guys, BGVP DM6 is finally in DA HAUS (M*THA F**KING FINALLY!). This will be my short (pfffhe he he) "initial impressions" post, plus some very important advice/suggestions/analysis from me.

First, let's start with some pictures of the "jewelry" :



(More in the spoiler):

Spoiler

- - -

TIPS AND SUGGESTIONS/RECOMMENDATIONS

- Improvised Gunk Guard

Now, I know many people asked what's the best way to put something on the nozzle to keep gunk/junk/earwax from entering the bores, and at the same time not to affect the sound/soundstage. This is my suggestion:

What I've used, is this thin, stretchy, spandex-y type of an woman socks material. It's kinda hard to describe, so here's an image:



You can simply cut some small pieces of it, place it on the back of the tip of your choice, and push the DM6 nozzle on top of everything:





That's it. It doesn't have ANY effect on the sound, and does the job. When you push the nozzle, it stretches, as you can see, and the mesh it's no longer "thicc", so again - perfect solution IMHO.

- - -

- MMCX and CABLES

Now, when it comes to the MMCX cables and their connectors, my experience was - initially, the NICEHCK Pure Copper cable was very stiff/hard to put on, and the left bud didn't even clicked. As others reported.

But, after swapping (very carefully) a few cables (The TinAudio T2's cable, which was clicking perfectly, the stock crappy grey SPC cable - piece of stiff crap, that almost broke, and then back to the NICEHCK 8 Core Pure Copper), the connectors "loosened up", and every cable from that point on was properly "clicking". No problem.

So, I currently have 0 problems with the connectors, on my NICECHK Pure Copper.

- - -

- The best TIPs

Yep, as of this moment, the tips that come with the Rock Zircons are still the best. Simply the best. I use mediums, and they isolate 100%. The problem is,you have to be REALLY careful, because they create complete "vacuum/seal", and if you push them too fast, you might pop your eardrums, because there are NO VENTS on the DM6, and there is no way to level the air-pressure.

In fact, you should all be VERY careful with the entire DM6, because in order for it to work properly, you need this kind of seal (mainly for the bass).

My tip here, is when you are inserting them in your ears (very gently), to move around your jaw, so that air can escape from the ear canal, while you are slowly pushing them in.

BUT IF creating such tight air-pressure seal is a NO-GO for you, the DM6 might not be for you. My friend for example doesn't even want to make a proper seal, and complains that the bass is very light and thin. Well, it's balanced armature, duuh. There is no dynamic to "move air". For me, when the seal is perfect, the DM6es are TOO BASS-y even. Damage level bass hits, even more depending on your source (more on that later).

- - -

INITIAL SOUND IMPRESSIONS

This IEM is literally magical! I haven't heard my music in such a way (for good or bad, more on that later). I will give you a couple of very brief examples:

(IMPRESSION DONE WITH THE AXON 7 mini, + the NICECHK 8 core Pure Copper Cable + Stock Music App in "SuperHiFi" mode, CD-rip FLACs + Couple of HiRes Tracks and some crappy mp3s)

As a start, no IEM that I've heard in my life ever achieved what the DM6 is doing, but keep in mind that I have tried/own the "cheap stuff", like the TinAudio T2, BGVP DM5, **** 4in1, the TRN Vhorrible80, and other stuff that are several levels below these, like simple single dynamics like the Einsear T2, Rock Zircons, and stock crappy phone IEMs/Earbuds (but those shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with the DM6, and I understand why now): So, here it goes:

- The Instrument-separation/clarity/smoothness/detail/sound-stage/layering/imaging:

I'm blown away. the depth, the layering, the PRESENTATION, the location of the location of every instrument/voice... I basically didn't even knew what these things meant for an IEM, until now.

Vocals - Words cannot describe what the vocal experience is. But I will try. Vocals are smooth, distinguished. I was never able to hear the "lyrics" so clearly before. I'm not a native English speaker, so most of the time, I wasn't even sure what was sang, without checking lyrics (goes to show you on what low-fi crap I've been listening to my favorite thing in this life(music) my entire life, be it my crappy 2.1 speakers, my "plastic Philips HiFi system", , and pretty much everything else.) This is "experience". Not just listening to your music, but "experiencing it".

On duets for example, you can clearly distinguish both performers voices, overlapping, but clearly separated. And I mean CLEARLY. I've NEVER experienced music like that. Not to mention other voices mixed in the background, or other similar sounds/effects. THEY ALL COME OUT VERY CLEAR, but NOT shouting, up front, or in a weird place, they are exactly where they should be on the "depth" axis of the stage (layering) of the mix, it's like you're there, and you are hearing it in front of you with your ears in a environment.

That 3D holographic experience people were talking about? Yeah, it's real. I get it now. This is much bigger than the "hearing details you never heard before". This is whole different level. It's more like - "You-Haven't-Heard-It-THAT-Way-Before". I got the HDYNHB with the T2's when I initially got them, and thought things can't get better than this... (silly, poor me). In comparison though, it's like from Earth to the Moon.

- - -

BUT! There is a huge problem, and that's SIBILANCE. This is the most "shshshs" sibilant IEM I've ever put in my ears. Completely kills it for me. The problem are the "peaks" at 6-8kHz, that I tried to compare/simulate, from the measurements done by HBB and Crinacle. My EqualizerAPO simulations (that almost nobody bothered to check out, because you were all assuming automatically they are completely wrong), are actually very close to accurate to what I'm hearing, and sadly it's actually the simulation based on the Crinacle's graph that is closer (without the bump after the cavity at 10kHz), which I thought It sounded too much, and I assumed that I did something wrong (when technically I shouldn't because Crin's graph simulation should be the most accurate), but apparently, crinacle's simulation is the closest to what I'm actually hearing. You can check them out of you want, and if you prefer words than hearing for yourselves, there is only one way to describe - it's painful. You can't even crank the volume 2 notches before the middle, before it goes murderous on my ears.

The most painful songs are my usual:

Billy Idol - Rebel Yell (in the beginning when he starts singing, and the "S"es are overlapping;

and

Spud-u-Like by Barklay James Harvest. Those too are borderline unlistenable to me with the DM6. And that's on the neutral (best-sounding) Axon 7 mini, using the NICEHCK 8 Core Pure Copper Cable.

With the default gray SPC cable, or got forbid on my Axon 7 WITH that cable? That's just death. 100% unlistenable.

Now, I do have VERY sensitive ears, so keep that in mind. The shape of my ear canal might create a very bad resonance at these peaks, so It might be person-specific (but still, it's just too much). My friend for example doesn't hear it as bad as me, but he doesn't even make proper seal with the DM6 on purpose (too afraid of the air-pressure), so I can't take his assessment as something definitive.

The harmonics of percussive instruments like most drums (and bass kicks) sound EXTREMELY sibilant as well, because their harmonics hit exactly at these areas around the 6-8kHz, where the "SHSHSHS" sibilance happens. It's very uncomfortable, and also weird sounding.

As reported by many, the Cymbals also sound messed up. Their "heads" (fundamental hit) is very quiet, while the extension/decay/splash is VERY loud, making them sound just... kinda wrong. There are some songs that I know very well, where the cymbals/high-hats doesn't even sound like cymbals/high-hats on the DM6...

I feel really bad that the DM6es have these problems, when everything else is soo good about them. But, I will put them through at least 100 hours of "burn-in" (even though I don't believe in it as of this moment), that will tell me if these things improve. And I will be 100% honest as always. Just for the record, they already had ~ around 15 hours of listening time, and pretty much nothing has changed. Perhaps "very slightly" less sibilance, but that could just be in my head (or my ears adapted a litle bit - most likely that), but I can't say for sure, so... Yeah, I will discuss it in the full review.


That's it for now, as far as initial sound impressions go. I am trying to keep this brief, so not including specific samples, or going through describing the rest of the spectrum using different music. I will make final assessment after at least 200 hours, and the full review will include those, as well as everything else.

- - -

THE KINKS AND THE QUIRKS


- THE SENSITIVITY

The DM6's are extremely sensitive and SOURCE DEPENDENT! If you don't have a good source, or your source has ANY kind or coloration (or high internal impedance, like the Zishan DSD and Hiby R6, based on what I've heard about these too), you are NOT gonna have a good/optimal time (sucks for me) with them. You might actually hate them.

For example:

NOISE - The DM6'ses pick up ANY noise that happens in a circuit, or leaks into the DAC/AMP as an EMI interference. Things like wifi. This IEM though is on a whole different level.

My Axon 7 has some sort of IEM shielding problem in particular. I can LITERALLY HEAR COIL WHINE (my friend was well, where were What-ing the whole time), from simply scrolling, sliding my finger on the screen of the phone. That was a What moment. Both me, my fiend, my mother and so on could hear it. That just some next level **** (and a huge f*ckup on ZTE's part with the big Axon 7, because the Mini doesn't have that problem, neither do other phones I've tested, like the Galaxy S7 Edge and regular Galaxy S7).

Here's an audio sample, recorded from the DM6 just plugged in directly into my on-board sound card on my PC as an example, and (worst case scenario) (Motherboard is the GIGABYTE z97 G1 Sniper).

01 - BGVP DM6 - My Onboard Is Too Loud For You (Part. 1)

This is with sound completely muted, and the IEMs just plugged in. As you can see, that's just un-listenable/un-workable. And that MB has a "fancy" gold-plated EMI shield on top of the DAC (yeah, it totally works.../s) as well... For those that were wondering what's it like using sensitive IEMs on onboard sound solutions. there you go.

- - -

- THE IMPEDANCE

This is the DM6's greatest problem with most gear. 20ohms is in the middle of nowhere, so some devices will be running it in "higher impedance" mode, which is at the 32ohm step. This creates a HUGE problem with the DM6, not just when it comes to the noise I've mentioned above, but also it completely changes the frequency response.

The more colored the source, the worst results you are gonna get. Some sort of adapter is a MUST (to take care of the noise mostly). The Ideal would be 12ohm, but I haven't seen such an adapter anywhere. I might have to calculate and make my own. I have ordered the 20ohm impedance one from penon, and I will report the changes once I have it.

As for me, my Axon 7 SOUNDS LIKE F*CKING CRAP with the DM6. The sound is changed to a point that it's simply terrible. The SuperHiFi setting, that usually works like you are switching from low-to-high gain, does the EXACT opposite of what it should be doing. Sound gets quieter than normal HiFi, the dynamics are completely dead, bass is extremely boosted, as well as the worse peaks in the treble, making the soundstage extremely narrow (but deep), and tonality shifts greatly.

Yeah, my soul is crushed, because the DM6es simply do not work with the Axon 7 and it's colored DAC/AMP (AK4490). I've posted what the "coloration" looked like before, but here it is again.




The DM6 is very warm sounding IEM already, and ANY additional warmth added completely kills it's sound quality and intended signature. It's like listening to a very crappy cheap earbud, which sadly is exactly what it sounds like on my Axon 7. The regular HiFi setting is much better, but still really bad.

Heck, even the Galaxy S7 edge I borrowed sounded MUCH better, something I would'v never thought I'd say, although because of the crappy DAC/AMP in the S7 edge, the dynamics were very low (because of the crappy crosswalk), causing imaging and soundstage to suffer greatly. Yeah, it might sound better (as a signature), but it also sounds gust like a regular cheap IEM on the S7. Nothing like the Axon 7 mini, which just makes it SING.

That said, if you have a phone/dongle with bad crosstalk (most of them), you are not gonna hear what the capabilities of the DM6 are. Sad, but true. No accurate imaging, no deep and wide holographic-like sounds stage, nothing.

- - -

All of that said, the Axon 7 Mini actually sounded fantastic (Just to clarify again, all impressions you've read were done with it, because it simply worked the best with the DM6). It has the newer 4961 DAC/ADC, and it's very flat and neutral sounding phone (or cold/analytical). ONLY on this device, I can hear what the DM6 can do, and how they should sound like. There is no shift in tonality like with the other phones, and it simply sounds great, and even better on the SuperHiFi setting, which worked exactly as intended/should (High Gain with more dynamics).

I will edit this post and I will add some comparison recordings from all phones, just so you can all see what kind of difference it makes, and it's astronomical. Same with cables.

- - -

AND SPEAKING OF CABLES, yeah, they make a difference like a mofo. EVEN my mother noticed it. I've initially tried them with the TinAudio T2's silver-plated stock cable (much better then the stock grey one btw). It's pretty much exactly what I was describing/speculating in the graphs here. EXACTLY.

Test song was "Alphaville - Sounds Like a Melody". The synth at the beginning always tells of tonality/pitch shift, so that's my main song for that. Sounds the most natural (close to reality) with the Pure copper cable, and completely out of wack with silver-plated. That cable definitely helps taming down the highs as well, to a point that I think affects the already problematic cymbals too much, making their problem even bigger. But, it corrects the sibilance in the 6-8kHz (not greatly, but noticeably), so... YOU JUST CAN'T HAVE IT LIKE YOU WANT IT DAMMIT!...

As for the stock (grey) cable, it should be purged from the face of the Earth. It does something completely weird to the sound. Like, literally bringing up the WORST in the DM6. Increased bass, and even sharper peaks. It should NEVER be used, unless as a correction to a specific "source", or for very specific needs/taste. It's a downright crime that BGVP includes it with the DM6. Many people will hate the DM6 with that cable, it's kinda like BGVP are shooting themselves in the feet.


- - - - - - -

So yeah, those are my "brief" initial impressions with the DM6. I really hope they "improve" with more time passing/listening. But as of now, with MY source (Axon 7), I can't enjoy them at all. Will update when I get the impedance adapter. And yeah, the conclusion would be - a better (cold/neutral/analytical) source is simply a must.


- - - - - - -

As an extra thought, considering everything said so far, I can't help but wonder how much the test rigs that @crinacle and @Hawaiibadboy use affect the sound, and THUS, the result on the graphs. Not sure about crin, but the DA IMM-6 should definitely graph completely differently on a different devices, considering how sensitive it and reactive to different DAC/AMPs the DM6 is. The "approximated differences" between the test rigs that Crin provided here in the thread (which unfortunately he deleted because of some people acting weird, when I asked them not to do it) might not be telling the whole story... So yeah. If we could measure these differences somehow it would be great. With the IMM-6, perhaps attaching an impedance adapter (that has 2 poles ofc) would show differences (since the source is the wathever DAC/AMP that's inside the iPad)? I would really liked to test these things myself. The problem is, you can't buy the IMM-6 anywhere anymore, especially where I live....

Anyway, thanks for reading.

Interesting post. A tad long but yeah I agree with you that you need a new source. Those nails though! I was mesmerized by them!

 

[chuoi123]

I'm using DM6 with Hidizs Sonata HD on my laptop. It "super mega" loud so the volume control of my laptop rarely go over 15/100 in the daytime and rarely over 4 or 6/100 in the nighttime. I'm ordering an impedance adapter (75 ohm). Let's see does it make more "room" to control the volume on my laptop.

 

[Tony51]

The LG V30 has built in amps that can kick in to allow it to drive upto 600ohm headphones.

Do you think it has satisfactory output to run the DM6 properly ? (Not sarcasm)

Well, I won't know for sure but I have never seen or used a smart phone with plenty power output to run any iem to it's full potential. I've own quite a few and I test them just for poops in giggles and they all fail pretty good

You say it has an amp that will kick in to push 600ohms, well that is a bold statement by the manufacturer to claim while not providing the true specs of the phone.
So a better question would be to find out if in fact the phone posses at least 350 mW of power which I am willing to bet it does not, but I have no proof if this either and doubt you will find the true specs.

Also, many daps claim to run high impedance headphones but this does not mean you will get the best out of the headphones signature. In fact, most daps ( not cellphone) possess weak amps and truly benefit paired with a separate amp. When you do this..... you'll never go back. Even if you pair your smart phones with a portable amp, it will still not sound as great as it should until you pair a real dap with a amp.
Also, stay clear of the Fiio m7, m6 or the pioneer 300r?...I had them and I returned them, all with weak amp output less than 150mW. So I will never again purchase any dap that does not posses at least 250mW or above.
My current setups are the Sony Walkman ZX2 paired with the Cayin c5 amp or the fiio E12 amp.

And for the Fiio X7mk2 paired with the Fiio A5 or sometimes with the cayin c5. These posses 850mW of power and makes anything shine to it's fullest potential.... You're not getting that power from any smart phones in today's date. Not being sarcastic, just a person that has spent lost of money tinkering with audio gear and separating the men from boys. Hope this helps. Now, have the Hiby R6 pro in route with 750mW....hmmm probably won't need to pair this baby with anything since 750mW is plenty power output.
Tony

 

[darkwing]

instead of a DAP, you could also go for the ES100 $99 route, it sounds pretty good, and it has a balanced output

 

[mr.karmalicious]

Well, I won't know for sure but I have never seen or used a smart phone with plenty power output to run any iem to it's full potential. I've own quite a few and I test them just for ****s in giggles and they all fail pretty good

You say it has an amp that will kick in to push 600ohms, well that is a bold statement by the manufacturer to claim while not providing the true specs of the phone.
So a better question would be to find out if in fact the phone posses at least 350 mW of power which I am willing to bet it does not, but I have no proof if this either and doubt you will find the true specs.

Also, many daps claim to run high impedance headphones but this does not mean you will get the best out of the headphones signature. In fact, most daps ( not cellphone) possess weak amps and truly benefit paired with a separate amp. When you do this..... you'll never go back. Even if you pair your smart phones with a portable amp, it will still not sound as great as it should until you pair a real dap with a amp.
Also, stay clear of the Fiio m7, m6 or the pioneer 300r?...I had them and I returned them, all with weak amp output less than 150mW. So I will never again purchase any dap that does not posses at least 250mW or above.
My current setups are the Sony Walkman ZX2 paired with the Cayin c5 amp or the fiio E12 amp.

And for the Fiio X7mk2 paired with the Fiio A5 or sometimes with the cayin c5. These posses 850mW of power and makes anything shine to it's fullest potential.... You're not getting that power from any smart phones in today's date. Not being sarcastic, just a person that has spent lost of money tinkering with audio gear and separating the men from boys. Hope this helps. Now, have the Hiby R6 pro in route with 750mW....hmmm probably won't need to pair this baby with anything since 750mW is plenty power output.
Tony

have you controlled for the fact that the devices you've used with higher power outputs probably have better circuitry overall? I genuinely just can't imagine how "YOU NEED HALF A WATT OF POWER!!!" makes sense with a device with a 122dB/mW sensitivity (or efficiency, rather). (i'm aware it's nonlinear, but that's really not that relevant at this scale.)

something i'm more curious about now is what the difference is in frequency response between a <1Ω output and a 20Ω output matching the DM6, and how that frequency response scales as a function of that difference.

I feel like it's very strange that there aren't categorial measurements on this sort of thing, as far as I know (care to slide back in here or direct me to a post of yours, @crinacle ?). If I had a measurement setup, I'd absolutely have a variable resistor and be pumping out tests, at least for the headphones, sources, and cables I had access to, and I'm quite well-versed in Mathematica so I'd have a really fun time analyzing and presenting this data.

 

[niron]

I think I will go to the Apple Store and listen to the XS with my DM6 and see how it sounds to me there. I have tried with the Apple dongle and my iPhone X the following: HD58X - SE425 - FH5 - DM6 - Orion CK - CA Comet - and the more I have listened the more I just find it flat when I compare exactly the same files (or streaming) with my nano iDSD BL from iFi using the iEMatch 3.5mm connection. Anyhow this is only my opinion FWIW so I am certainly not criticising the Apple dongle - just giving an impression as to what I hear. I also don't want to hijack this thread either

Dongle shmongle, who needs that thing? Get the Radsone ES100 - End of story.

Best device I had in years. Reminds me of the early days of Mojo.

 

[perfecious]

- post removed for convenience -

 

[zeppu08]

Anyone tried the DM6 with ibasso DX150 amp 6 and 8?? How did they pair??

 

[chinmie]

And narrow bore tips just don't work with the DM6. They actually increase the sibilance

i have the exact opposite experience

 

[perfecious]

- post removed for convenience -

 

[perfecious]

- post removed for convenience -