Android phones and USB DACs | Page 72 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

DanBa · Dec 17, 2012 at 4:56 PM

Quote:

lee730 said:
Well that is obviously not the case. .. android is limited to 16/44

So, how do you explain that a Studio Master 24bit music file can be played on a stock Android-powered Samsung Galaxy S3 with the USB Audio Recorder PRO application thru a 24bit-capable ODAC?
http://www.linnrecords.com/recording-boots-met-my-face.aspx

lee730 said:
Even Power Amp and neutron says android is limited to 16/44 and that the kernel isn't that good to begin with. This is clearly the case even on the DX100. The custom API ibasso created bypasses the crappy kernel on android thus you get the full benefit of the sabre DAC.

Don’t trust anyone on the Internet!
The person who says you "The custom API iBasso created bypasses the crappy kernel on Android thus you get the full benefit of the Sabre DAC" is quite clueless about software.
How can an Application Program Interface bypass the kernel???
He should at least read and try to understand some Android basic concepts
http://androidcourse.in/mainmenu.php?contents=52

Quote:

lee730 said:
If you listen to music on Power Amp or Neutron audio even on 16/44 is really sounds mediocre in comparison to ibassos Stock player. This is not only due to the 16/44 limit but the inherent limitations in androids kernel impacting the sound in a negative way.

The iBasso player (at the application level) uses a custom iBasso audio driver (at the kernel level) specifically developed for the Sabre DAC.
PowerAmp or Neutron (at the application level) uses a standard Android audio driver (at the kernel level) developed for some common basic DAC (i.e. this driver doesn’t exploit all the features of the Sabre DAC).

fcpchop88 · Dec 17, 2012 at 5:15 PM

Quote:

danba said:
"I tried the trial app [USB Audio Recorder PRO] on my Galaxy Nexus, does work!"
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=35484769&postcount=52

That is awesome, certainly worth the buy then. Thanks DanBa!

DanBa · Dec 17, 2012 at 6:07 PM

DanBa · Dec 17, 2012 at 6:40 PM

Travelbug · Dec 17, 2012 at 8:20 PM

danba said:
So, how do you explain that a Studio Master 24bit music file can be played on a stock Android-powered Samsung Galaxy S3 with the USB Audio Recorder PRO application thru a 24bit-capable ODAC?
http://www.linnrecords.com/recording-boots-met-my-face.aspx

The iBasso player (at the application level) uses a custom iBasso audio driver (at the kernel level) specifically developed for the Sabre DAC.
PowerAmp or Neutron (at the application level) uses a standard Android audio driver (at the kernel level) developed for some common basic DAC (i.e. this driver doesn’t exploit all the features of the Sabre DAC).

I agree re, eveverything has to pass thru the kernel.
Also there are custom kernels out there such as siyah and boeffla kernel that has greatly enhanced the SQ and has provided hardware control of the built in Wolfson dac. I'll try to find that ibasso dap and do an a/b with my modded kernel s3.
I do agree with lee though that the stock Android kernels do not sound good.

lee730 · Dec 17, 2012 at 8:22 PM

lee730 · Dec 17, 2012 at 8:34 PM

Quote:

danba said:
So, how do you explain that a Studio Master 24bit music file can be played on a stock Android-powered Samsung Galaxy S3 with the USB Audio Recorder PRO application thru a 24bit-capable ODAC?
http://www.linnrecords.com/recording-boots-met-my-face.aspx

In order for it to do such thing it would have to bypass androids native kernel otherwise it is still limited to 16/44 and thus that means your music is being downsampled. In fact Neutron and Power Amp are capable of 24/192 playback the fact is android is not and that is why they are limited to 16/44. Do some research on it. ibasso has managed it by bypassing the kernel and using their own custom made driver directly to the Sabre DAC.

Travelbug · Dec 17, 2012 at 10:23 PM

A computing kernel is the basic component by which applications and the OS communicate with hardware. Everything has to go thru it as it provides the instruction code for everything.
There is no way to bypass it.

turokrocks · Dec 18, 2012 at 1:40 AM

Dacport LX is working with Note2 , using audio recorder pro (limited to 24bit only!!!), without any USB HUB!!!!!!

Toe Tag · Dec 18, 2012 at 2:09 AM

All I want out of Android is to give me a UI, access some files (local or remote), and feed the bits out the USB port. That's what its good at. Get the bits and pass them through untouched. (I guess I might trust one or two select softwares to mess with the bits if they do it in floating point.) At that point I now have a choice of dozens of external DACs. (Though currently only a few phones with proper USB OTG support for external DACs).

Less than 0.1% of music is natively more than 16/44. Up-sampling doesn't add any information to the music. And I believe this thread has reports of the USB OTG chain handling higher bitrates anyway. Maybe people will now start talking about jitter but that can be solved with a simple buffer and very slight time delay.

I'm sorry to slam the iBasso but its a brick that runs an increasingly ageing version of Android. USB OTG and external DAC are the future. And while it requires two boxes their total weight and volume can be less than the iBasso. At what point will people admit its obsolete... 1 year... 2 years... Well who knows, people still swear by vinyl despite constant angular velocity meaning each track has less information than the one before it until the inner tracks have half the information.

lee730 · Dec 18, 2012 at 2:45 AM

Wishful thinking

. You'd have to use something along the lines of the DACport LX to even start to compare to the DX100 and you also have to take into account your amp section as well. So in the end, I highly doubt it. Pairing a good DAC and an amp will be bigger than the DX100 and most likely not sound better still :wink:

. My DACport LX with the UHA6 MKII were on par with the DX100/T1 amp but still not better than that pairing. It took the Triad with the DACport LX to crush my DX100/T1 combo and even then I still find the combo still comparable in some aspects.

CZ Eddie · Dec 18, 2012 at 3:01 AM

~~Just out of curiosity, tonight I flashed CyanogenMOD 10.1 and then installed USB Audio Recorder Pro.~~
Why? When CM10 doesn't work with DACs?
Well, I read that USB Audio Recorder Pro had special drivers for the kernel. I was hoping it would work better.

~~So when I ran the app without the USB-OTG cable plugged in, it complained that the device needed to be connected first.~~
~~So I rebooted. Connected the USB-OTG which is connected to my UCA202 DAC.~~
~~Then started the app, which advised it was now connected via USB.~~
~~Located an MP3 which the app complained about.~~
~~Then located a FLAC and clicked "play". But nothing happened. So either I don't know how to use the app, or it's not helping that I was on CM10, or something else is up.~~

Update... I was playing a bad FLAC file. A proper working FLAC played just fine.

DanBa · Dec 18, 2012 at 4:25 AM

I think you should ask the developer on his KVR topic:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=368011&sid=cb64f9eddc996551c9bfc92bc6bfa4b1

or invite him to come here.

DanBa · Dec 18, 2012 at 4:28 AM

Quote:

travelbug said:
I agree re, eveverything has to pass thru the kernel.
Also there are custom kernels out there such as siyah and boeffla kernel that has greatly enhanced the SQ and has provided hardware control of the built in Wolfson dac. I'll try to find that ibasso dap and do an a/b with my modded kernel s3.
I do agree with lee though that the stock Android kernels do not sound good.

I agree too.
There is no stock OS / kernel natively optimized for audio because audio is not considered by multi-purpose device manufacturers as a consumer target.
Luckily, there are third party developers who are improving the audio features like Supercurio or Siyah for Android, Amarra or Audirvana for MacOS
http://www.audiostream.com/content/media-player-qa-q6-it-more-beneficial-handle-upsampling-media-player-or-dac
http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/large_image/MAC%20OSX%20audio%20players%20&%20Integer%20Mode.pdf

The current stock Galaxy S3 could deliver a cleaner USB audio stream by just modifying some configuration parameters of the kernel scheduler and of the ALSA USB audio module.
http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/touch-toolbox-30.html
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=pcaudio&n=101397

"An interesting example is the HRT music streamer II, it IS asynchronous USB, but it is still very sensitive to what happens in the computer. On the SAME COMPUTER I can make simple changes to OS scheduling parameters and get a huge difference in the sound. At one end of the scale its dull, lifeless, no depth at all, at the other end of the scale it is wonderfully alive, dynamic, huge depth etc. And all this by just changing a few numbers, NO change in hardware at all."

DanBa · Dec 18, 2012 at 4:37 AM

Quote:

lee730 said:
In fact Neutron and Power Amp are capable of 24/192 playback the fact is android is not and that is why they are limited to 16/44. Do some research on it.

Yes, I did.

Please read the following posts:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/975#post_8940230
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1005#post_8950416

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