[Pudu]

I've only had experience with one Woo, but by far and away the biggest step up comes from the actual amp, and not from trying other tubes. You can use tubes to tweak the sound, but you don't need to.

For the most part, the importance/effect of tubes, DACs (gonna get smacked for this one), and cables - on Head-fi - is a bit like the diminishing returns of high end audio. Just as you spend the greatest proportion of money to effect the smallest changes and improvements, the largest amount of chatter seems to be about the tiny area of tweaking and tuning. There are exceptions to this of course.

To quote Craig Ferguson, "I look forward to your letters." :rolleyes:

 

[reeltime]

Quote:

I had the same tubes and the first one out of my WA5-LE was the 81 drivers. i di dnot like hte sound compared to other NOS. Currenlty I am using TS BG/RP 6F8G and love them.
 
The second one replaced but I still have them were the EML 5U4G Mesh. They were replaced by the 596. If I wan tmore dyanmics I use the 596, if i want a more melow sound I go with the EML btu to be honest the EML have been in their boxes for months.
 

 
I'll have to swap out for my SN7's and see if I hear a big difference.  What specifically bothered you about the 181's so I know what to listen for?  I wonder if the TII series changed any of that?  They've only been out a month or so.  You've definitely piqued my curiosity. 
 
With the 596, any trouble matching tubes?  I'd think the slightest difference would throw the balance off.

 

[atomicbob]

My experience is similar to Pudu's.

My quest has taught me that one can optimize their auditory enjoyment by selecting the playback system in decreasing order of impact (arbitrary % assigned to give some idea of relative impact):

1. Headphones - very personal both physically and preferentially - 50%
2. Amp - should be a good match with headphones - 30%
3. Source - even an iPod line out will sound pretty spectacular if the preceding two have be selected carefully - 15%
4. Tube rolling if applicable - 3%
5. Everything else - 2 ~ 5%

The big challenge is finding the headphones that are a good match for a specific individual. The bad news is there are a lot of headphones from which to choose. Thankfully, that is also the good news.

 

[teknikk7]

Quote:

My experience is similar to Pudu's.

My quest has taught me that one can optimize their auditory enjoyment by selecting the playback system in decreasing order of impact (arbitrary % assigned to give some idea of relative impact):

1. Headphones - very personal both physically and preferentially - 50%
2. Amp - should be a good match with headphones - 30%
3. Source - even an iPod line out will sound pretty spectacular if the preceding two have be selected carefully - 15%
4. Tube rolling if applicable - 3%
5. Everything else - 2 ~ 5%

The big challenge is finding the headphones that are a good match for a specific individual. The bad news is there are a lot of headphones from which to choose. Thankfully, that is also the good news.

Where does the DAC fall into your equation?
 
--teknikk7

 

[atomicbob]

It is part of 3 - Source:
A) digital stream from CD/DVD transport / USB / Ethernet streamer -> DAC
B) analogue phono preamp / tape / SACD etc.
C) analog output from iDevice etc.
D) other

I know of at least one individual that uses a woo amp with an Ampex 350 as a source.

 

[teknikk7]

This is the last piece of my puzzle, which DAC to get...$300 budget? 
 
WA6.

 

[Sko0byDoo]

Quote:

This is the last piece of my puzzle, which DAC to get...$300 budget? 
 
WA6.

 
Schiit Bifrost, grab one from the trade forum.  Had one myself, a great DAC for a reasonable price.   

 

[atomicbob]

JDS Labs sells an ODAC that sounds pretty good to my ears, but it is USB input only. It falls in the same sound camp as the Benchmark DAC1. I'm sure others can chime in on alternatives.

 

[shipsupt]

In my opinion woo amps are great tube amps
you could probably do a little better than the 6SE with a cavali or leben.
but you're also doubling the price at least.

While the Leben has some qualities many like (nice looking, some might say romantic sounding, I would say colored and loose) I would struggle to put it ahead of (m)any amps in the Woo line when it comes to SQ.

 

[Pudu]

I should point out that I wasn't being critical of the tube discussions - this stuff is what makes the hobby interesting. Otherwise the forum would be a bit dull:


[COLOR=800080]"I've got an ipod."[/COLOR]

[COLOR=008000]"Yep, got one too."[/COLOR]

[COLOR=800080]"White?"[/COLOR]

[COLOR=008000]"Red."[/COLOR]

[COLOR=800080]"You run ALAC?"[/COLOR]

[COLOR=008000]"Yep."[/COLOR]

{birds singing}

[COLOR=800080]"Wanna talk about tea?"[/COLOR]



But you don't have to get into tube rolling to derive great enjoyment out of a quality amp like a Woo, so don't let it be a reason to scare you off.

 

[regular.guy]

Quote:

Hi wooians,
I had recently purchased a WA-5 with all the capacitor trimmings with the stock tubes (shuguang 300b-98, shuguang 247a, ge 6sn7).  Upon first firing it up, I had great expectations, as it was better than my Antique Sound Lab MG-head Mk III without any break in and, of course, the great professional reviews and on Head-fi, but I can't say I am happy with the sound.

 
It has about 150 hours on it, not just on, but music running through it, which is the break in time that the manual claims is needed.  The amp seems to lack upper end extension, deep bass, holography and bloom, all of which, from what I have read, the WA-5 should have.  Cranking the volume can get me the bass/slam, but one of the reasons I bought the Woo was for low volume satisfaction.  
 
Purchasing tube upgrades, immediately after spending over $4,000 already, was not what I had in mind.  Perhaps this is just the single ended 300b "sound" and what I'm hearing is the "end game".  Don't get me wrong, however, I am a "bottlehead" and have other single ended devices.  Please tell me that the Woo will continue to evolve and improve.  

Great responses Head-fi'ers to my question  

.  I had done some research on v-caps, they need up to 400(!) hours, so my current 150 hours is not even half way there.  I will probably need to upgrade the tubes.  The ASL mg-head OTL did need tube rolling to maximize it, although the price for a pair of Sovtek EL84m's were not quite the same as an EML 300b.  The Shuguang 300b-98 are a replica of the WE, soft in the bass.  The Psvane TII seems to be well regarded, too bad they don't give the "light show" that the Sophia mesh's do.  Anyone have problems getting the Sophia mesh and the Psvane TII 6sn7 to fit togetheter. The Psvane's need up to  300 hours of break in 

.  Good to know that most of ya'll feel the Ultrasone Pro 900's do not mesh well with the wa-5, I do prefer the Senn 650's over the Ultrasone in this amp.  Now that I have a lot of "drive" with up to 8 watts, I may try one of the Hifi-man's or an Audeze model.  Would like a low sensitivity pair, as I can barely crack the volume pot before my ears can't take it.  

 

[reeltime]

Because of our discussion here yesterday, I swapped out my PSVane 181s for RCA vintage 6SN7s.  Not much difference.  I'm not able to a/b them, but my notes were that the 6SN7 had slightly deeper bass, but less focused-- it sorta comes from everywhere at once, a little smoother on the top end-- the reverb passages play out a little smoother, and the top end rolls off harshness a bit better.  Honestly-- it's splitting hairs-- these are tiny differences.  They both sound fine to my ear.  I could have saved the few hundred bucks spent on the PSVanes for sure-- but part of the hobby is trying things out.
 
For driver tubes-- all I ask is for clean delivery througout the db range.  I don't look to driver tubes to shape the sound.

 

[atomicbob]

I should point out that I wasn't being critical of the tube discussions - this stuff is what makes the hobby interesting.
*edit*
But you don't have to get into tube rolling to derive great enjoyment out of a quality amp like a Woo, so don't let it be a reason to scare you off.

Because of our discussion here yesterday, I swapped out my PSVane 181s for RCA vintage 6SN7s.  Not much difference. 
*edit*
I could have saved the few hundred bucks spent on the PSVanes for sure-- but part of the hobby is trying things out.

Excellent points. For those at the beginning of their quest, save tube rolling for later after all the other important aspects of the playback chain have been well balanced. Then when budget and time permit, let the tweaking fun begin. And there are plenty of contributions on this forum to search for tweaks of every kind, especially good information concerning tube rolling.

 

[Silent One]

Good reply, atomicbob. It has been my experience that the drive tube can influence the power tubes (and the other way around), and the source having an impact on one or both of these tubes. Eventually, based on what one likes, the pairings become sort of a dance - some pairings will dance better, the same or worst depending on the recordings played.
 
What's more, I've made simple system changes and sometimes all bets are off my one-time fav pairings. Let the fun begin...more tweaking!

 

[Todd R]

Just got mine a few minutes ago. 
Straight out of the Mac (my Calyx DAC is out on loan) with the stock tubes...
Wow. 
I think this might be the amp I've been looking for. 
More later.