Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

In my WA22 I didn't like the Treasures much the first time I tried them, I think it was because I had them paired with my TS 5998 (CBS-Hytron 2399) power tubes. I liked them much better the second time around, this time with my Sylvania 7236 power tubes. They also sound good with the TS 7236, just slightly better with the Sylvanias.
 

 
 
 

 
 
 
 


Absolutely agreed. With my Sylvania 7236s (or even TS7236s), I really like the Treasures...but with my TS5998s, I prefer my Sylvania 5692s. Talk about a finicky amp.

 
 

 

 

 

 

[2359glenn]

 
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As long as these tales don't involve any DACs... 

  Man, it's going to be at least six hours before I can get isolated inside the listening room; growing restless! One observation I just made, and this is due to how Woo Audio aligns the Teflon sockets inside the WA6SE, but my 596 and antennae leads are positioned crooked. Those of you with WA5/LE's & WA22's, the 596 sits more front and center, with a lead wire on either side. Mine will sit with a lead wire at 7 o'clock & 1 o'clock.
 
I know I know.... it's the sound that matters. But it took nearly all of my first year of ownership to get use to the wayward facing Sophia Princess and EML Glass!  

  Truth be told, once I "Deoxit" tonight, nuthin' else will matter.

  If you take a picture of the 5U4 socket so I can see the orientation of the key way. I can make you a new adapter so the wires come out the back and the anode connectors
  are on the right and left. Then we can exchange them.
 

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

 
  If you take a picture of the 5U4 socket so I can see the orientation of the key way. I can make you a new adapter so the wires come out the back and the anode connectors
  are on the right and left. Then we can exchange them.
 

 
That would be great! The key way points to high noon. First listen will likely come at 2200 - 2300 hrs...
 
 

 

 
 
 
Post Script: Will stay with the adapter I have currently ~
 
Glenn, after sitting in with the '596' I have grown to like its character facing the way it does (such is life). Sitting at 45 degrees, you'd think it's aware of the paparazzi!  

 

 

[Xcalibur255]

Hmmm.  I was getting really tempted by all this 596 talk, but it looks like you guys have snatched them all up off ebay! 

  Just as well, since I have my doubts the tube physically works in the WA6 due to its width.  I'm more than content with the GZ33 anyway, which I've decided I like better than my EML274B overall.  I'm trying to break the idea that I have to buy a backup as soon as I find a tube I like, because its expensive to fuel such paranoia and the Mullards have a reputation for being very hearty and long lived.  I can't help but fear, though, that if I find myself needing one a few years from now it will no longer be possible to find one.
 
I've gone through nearly every 6SN7 driver tube I have with it now except for the BGRP (still considering it).  The National Unions were more of a fluke than anything, since no other tube had such a Jekyll and Hyde sort of reaction the way they did.  Not every tube became more dynamic and lively either, which was another interesting surprise.  The way it broke down more or less is like so:
 
Tubes I thought sounded better on the GZ33 vs. the EML274B overall:
- National Union Blackglass 6SN7GT
- Sylvania Chrome Dome 6SN7GT
- Sylvania 6SN7W
 
Tubes I thought were more or less a wash overall:
- Raytheon VT231 ladder plate
- Brimar 6SN7GTY
- Sylvania "Bad Boy" 6SN7GT
- Sylvania 6SN7GTA
 
Tubes I thought sounded worse:
- RCA VT231 Greyglass
- Tung Sol 6SN7GT Mouse Ear
 
In the case of the Mouse Ear and the Greyglass both tubes sounded dull on the GZ33.  The Tung Sol was the biggest surprise with a strongly subdued top end where as these tubes usually are pretty bright and sparkly up top.  It shifted the focus into the lower mids, but something about the overall balance felt off.  The Greyglass just came across as veiled and lazy sounding, which was totally not what I was expecting.
 
For the tubes in the middle group, there was always something gained and something lost which ended up balancing out.  Well, except for the Raytheons which sounded nearly identical to how they behave on the EML except for a slightly more pulled in soundstage.  The Syl GTAs improved considerably, but gained a harsh glare in the upper mids that was hard to look past.  The Brimars didn't sound that different, but again they sounded more forceful in the upper mids, so the small gain in focus wasn't really worth it.  I think I like this tube better with the Brimar 5R4GY.  The Bad Boys have their bass tighten up quite a bit, something they really need in my experience.  It also sharpens their transient response and makes them less romantic sounding.  But this is a double edged sword, because when you take that romanticism away they don't really feel special anymore.  I found myself a little bored listening to them, desperately wanting to roll the Chome Domes in in their place.
 
As for the winners, the Syl W's simply improve all around.  Bass gets faster and tighter, the veil is lifted for the most part, and they display the big lively sound they are known for.  I found the treble a little more peaky than usual, but the other gains make it worth dealing with.
 
The National Unions, like I wrote about before, sound radically different.  They absolutely come alive, with huge powerful bass that grabs your attention and big bold dynamics.  The sound is rich and vivid without sounding overdone or or exaggerated in any one area.  I like the NUs when they are a laid back and romantic tube, but I love them like this.  A new favorite pairing for me.  Finally, the Chrome Domes, which I love anyway, gain a little more of everything on the GZ33.  The soundstage even grows wider, which was surprising.  My only gripe about this tube, that it has light bass, is not a problem here.  It has quantity and weight to go with the amazing speed and drive it always had before.  Everything sounds true to life, with a "your are in front of the recording microphone" sort of realism.  They pick up a very slight unwanted edginess in the low treble range, but nothing that can't be forgiven.  The only bad thing I noted was that their tonal balance doesn't feel as uncolored and neutral on the GZ33, there is definitely a flavor there now even if it is subtle. 
 
So far the Chrome Dome + GZ33 combo is the most lifelike sound I have ever gotten from my amp.  I wasn't going to try the Tung Sol round plates before, but now I think I'll have to.  The most consistent improvement was in bass speed and drive.  Neither of these things are strong points of the EML 274B, and because of this I think if I ever have to replace it I will go with an EML 5U4G next time.

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

Hmmm.  I was getting really tempted by all this 596 talk, but it looks like you guys have snatched them all up off ebay! 

  Just as well, since I have my doubts the tube physically works in the WA6 due to its width.  I'm more than content with the GZ33 anyway, which I've decided I like better than my EML274B overall.  I'm trying to break the idea that I have to buy a backup as soon as I find a tube I like, because its expensive to fuel such paranoia and the Mullards have a reputation for being very hearty and long lived.  I can't help but fear, though, that if I find myself needing one a few years from now it will no longer be possible to find one.
 
I've gone through nearly every 6SN7 driver tube I have with it now except for the BGRP (still considering it).  The National Unions were more of a fluke than anything, since no other tube had such a Jekyll and Hyde sort of reaction the way they did.  Not every tube became more dynamic and lively either, which was another interesting surprise.  The way it broke down more or less is like so:
 
Tubes I thought sounded better on the GZ33 vs. the EML274B overall:
- National Union Blackglass 6SN7GT
- Sylvania Chrome Dome 6SN7GT
- Sylvania 6SN7W
 
Tubes I thought were more or less a wash overall:
- Raytheon VT231 ladder plate
- Brimar 6SN7GTY
- Sylvania "Bad Boy" 6SN7GT
- Sylvania 6SN7GTA
 
Tubes I thought sounded worse:
- RCA VT231 Greyglass
- Tung Sol 6SN7GT Mouse Ear
 
In the case of the Mouse Ear and the Greyglass both tubes sounded dull on the GZ33.  The Tung Sol was the biggest surprise with a strongly subdued top end where as these tubes usually are pretty bright and sparkly up top.  It shifted the focus into the lower mids, but something about the overall balance felt off.  The Greyglass just came across as veiled and lazy sounding, which was totally not what I was expecting.
 
For the tubes in the middle group, there was always something gained and something lost which ended up balancing out.  Well, except for the Raytheons which sounded nearly identical to how they behave on the EML except for a slightly more pulled in soundstage.  The Syl GTAs improved considerably, but gained a harsh glare in the upper mids that was hard to look past.  The Brimars didn't sound that different, but again they sounded more forceful in the upper mids, so the small gain in focus wasn't really worth it.  I think I like this tube better with the Brimar 5R4GY.  The Bad Boys have their bass tighten up quite a bit, something they really need in my experience.  It also sharpens their transient response and makes them less romantic sounding.  But this is a double edged sword, because when you take that romanticism away they don't really feel special anymore.  I found myself a little bored listening to them, desperately wanting to roll the Chome Domes in in their place.
 
As for the winners, the Syl W's simply improve all around.  Bass gets faster and tighter, the veil is lifted for the most part, and they display the big lively sound they are known for.  I found the treble a little more peaky than usual, but the other gains make it worth dealing with.
 
The National Unions, like I wrote about before, sound radically different.  They absolutely come alive, with huge powerful bass that grabs your attention and big bold dynamics.  The sound is rich and vivid without sounding overdone or or exaggerated in any one area.  I like the NUs when they are a laid back and romantic tube, but I love them like this.  A new favorite pairing for me.  Finally, the Chrome Domes, which I love anyway, gain a little more of everything on the GZ33.  The soundstage even grows wider, which was surprising.  My only gripe about this tube, that it has light bass, is not a problem here.  It has quantity and weight to go with the amazing speed and drive it always had before.  Everything sounds true to life, with a "your are in front of the recording microphone" sort of realism.  They pick up a very slight unwanted edginess in the low treble range, but nothing that can't be forgiven.  The only bad thing I noted was that their tonal balance doesn't feel as uncolored and neutral on the GZ33, there is definitely a flavor there now even if it is subtle. 
 
So far the Chrome Dome + GZ33 combo is the most lifelike sound I have ever gotten from my amp.  I wasn't going to try the Tung Sol round plates before, but now I think I'll have to.  The most consistent improvement was in bass speed and drive.  Neither of these things are strong points of the EML 274B, and because of this I think if I ever have to replace it I will go with an EML 5U4G next time.

I really like the way you lend your thoughts to this thread; forum, Xcalibur255! Time/money prevents me from trying a lot of tubes mentioned in this space. But contributors like you separating the wheat from the chaff makes the experience more manageable.
 
Currently in session with the '596'... (hour 2). Hope to return a comment or two on the other side of Midnight.

 

[Dubstep Girl]

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That would be great! The key way points to high noon. First listen will likely come at 2200 - 2300 hrs...
 
 

 

 
 
those pics kinda make me wish i gotten the black WA6SE lol
 
 
 

 

[Silent One]

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those pics kinda make me wish i gotten the black WA6SE lol
 
 
 

For me, there's nuthin' quite like the absence of color! I love the way it frames things, objects and people (are audiophiles real people?). While I do love color and silver has its place, all of the former may move you but only back will stop your heart mid-beat!  

  I have better rez fotos but was in a hurry with that particular shot, as Glenn is on the East coast.

 

[Xcalibur255]

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those pics kinda make me wish i gotten the black WA6SE lol
 
 
 

When I move to the WA22, whenever that happens, it will be in black.  Much as I like silver on my WA6 (and how it hides dust), there is something about black with the right tubes.

 

[Xcalibur255]

So..... I gave in and threw the black glass tung sols in the amp.  Listening to them right now.
 
They are still the king. 

 
So many thoughts come to mind while listening, and then I lose most of them when it comes time to share.  The one thing that dominates my impression of these tubes is that they simply deliver more of the music to you.  Things you don't hear with other tubes are right there for you to pick up on with these.  I'm not sure if they really gain or lose anything on the GZ33 vs. the EML 274B since the last time they were in the amp was probably half a year ago, but if I can trust my memory they sound very similar.  I seem to remember them having more bass than this, which runs contrary to my experience with most of the other tubes and the GZ33, but there is no arguing with the quality and tunefulness.
 
VS the Chome Domes...... the Sylvanias give up nothing to the Tung Sols for clarity or detail.  For fast attack and dynamics the Chrome Domes are actually superior, and the initial attack of most notes sounds crisper.  I also think the Sylvanias have better attack and tautness in the bass, if only ever so slightly.  Both tubes are great at this, so I only mention it because it is just barely detectable as a difference.  What I feel the Tung Sols do is deliver more nuances and texture.  With the Tung Sols there is a gentleness to the sound that de-emphasises transients in favor of the body and reverb that follows without sacrificing a single bit of the clarity brought by the transient itself.   The Chrome Domes on the other hand lend focus to transients, making everything sound faster and crisper.  If a guitar string pluck on the Chrome Domes is a very rapid transition from black to white, then it is a slightly slower shift from black to white with many shades of grey during the moment in between on the Tung Sols.  After listening to the Tung Sols, what I was hearing from all the other tubes doesn't quite sound real...... as if they were only really telling about 80% of the story of the timbre of each instruments' note.
 
I had this thought though:  every song I listen to on the Tung Sols gives me this feeling like I've never really heard that song before until that moment.  As if I'd never really heard it played back correctly until I heard it on these tubes.  They just seem to capture more of what makes music seem real and convey that to the listener.  I'm at a loss to explain the effect in words better than that I'm afraid.
 
I count myself very fortunate to be able to own a pair of these tubes.

 

[Xcalibur255]

 
Thought I'd be a little less bad about posting pictures for once. 

 

[sillysally]

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So..... I gave in and threw the black glass tung sols in the amp.  Listening to them right now.
 
They are still the king. 

 
 
 
I count myself very fortunate to be able to own a pair of these tubes.

Yes that is my thinking also, the TSRP oval mica from the early 40's are the best over all 6SN7GT's. And not only do I have a matched nos set in my WA5LE but I also have a second matched nos set date code 9/42 of flawless 6SN7GT (USN) TSRP oval plates that have never been used, both sets in there original boxes and with the USN stamp of approval on the boxes.

 
I have given up on buying (about 16 months ago) from just anybody that says there tubes are NOS and matched, I only will buy from the very top rated tube sellers that give me all the test results and make sure that what I get are really NOS not just because the test results are equal to what is said to be NOS test results. All the NOS tubes I have gotten test well about the standard NOS test results, and that really does make a difference.

 

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

 
Thought I'd be a little less bad about posting pictures for once. 

This photograph will become inspiration to many... all because you decided to post.  

  I may eventually get there (TSRP-BG).

 

[Xcalibur255]

Honestly the only reason I have them was because I took it to 110% so to speak.  They are somewhat mismatched in a mere WA6, but I was thinking to the future when I did it.  I have far more limited means than most of the people who dabble in high end tubes on Head Fi, but all my life I've found a way to make it happen when something is important to me.

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

Honestly the only reason I have them was because I took it to 110% so to speak.  They are somewhat mismatched in a mere WA6, but I was thinking to the future when I did it.  I have far more limited means than most of the people who dabble in high end tubes on Head Fi, but all my life I've found a way to make it happen when something is important to me.

x2
 
Same here, without a doubt! Our fortunes will change soon enough. What helps temper me is my past - working in home and car audio gave me access to a lot of high-end stuff that I could take home and use and never buy. Working CES and other E-shows... a fun fun time during college!
 
Since I find myself into computer audio I realize that my money would be better spent first improving and isolating quality power to the system. I'm aiming to put my Mac on a LiFePO4 battery diet. The entire rig when I return to work, actually... off the grid I say!  

  But of course, it will take some $$$.
 

 

[jc9394]

Quote:

 
Absolutely agreed. With my Sylvania 7236s (or even TS7236s), I really like the Treasures...but with my TS5998s, I prefer my Sylvania 5692s. Talk about a finicky amp.

 
 

 
 
X2, I do not like the Treasures with any 6080 and 6AS7G tubes I have.  It only sounds great with TS 7236 to me.  Even the EMLs with Treasures sound a little off compare to GZ34 and GZ37.