Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite
May 24, 2011 at 2:56 PM Post #10,246 of 42,298


Quote:
Nova13, the 5998 lists two numbers because it is a dual triode - there are two sections.  So the "40/40" numbers listed were for sec 1 and 2, not "40 out of 40" or anything like that.  40 was a point on the scale of that particular tester that is the "line" between "good" and "bad".  It means nothing more - very arbitrary.
 
What's far more helpful is to receive a real number for transconductance.  When I sell tubes, I provide the actual transconductance numbers, and what the target "new" transconductance number should be.  Transconductance is  the Ratio of the change of output current to the change of input voltage (or more specifically, ratio of change in plate current to a change in grid voltage, with plate voltage held constant), is represented by Gm, and is measured in microhomos.  This is a much more useful test result to list when you are selling tubes, and the better testers all are mutual transconductance testers.


TV-7 testers are mutual transcondutance testers. However, there meters don't show the microhomos. They do have a conversion chart if someone wants to know what the actual microhomos is. For the 5998: 40 = 5,000.
 
 
May 24, 2011 at 3:12 PM Post #10,247 of 42,298
Good info guys, thanks.  I can see myself buying a tube tester sometime down the road.
 
My final question is this:
 
 
Also, what do THESE numbers (the "ma" ones) mean?

 

1 low noise pair 6DJ8 Sylvania JAN NOS 1971 same date codes
1 tube) 24/26ma
1 tube) 23/26.5ma

1 low noise pair 6DJ8 Sylvania JAN NOS 1973 same date codes
1 tube) 26/29ma
1 tube) 27/29ma

 
May 24, 2011 at 3:13 PM Post #10,248 of 42,298
Check around.  I think there are at least three guys here w/those and the WA22.  You can also check out this review since he has those http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue54/woo.htm  I have Tesla T-1's and it all sounds really great.  Tube upgrade required though.
 
Quote:
Hi y'all,
 
I'm considering purchasing a WA22, and would sure like to hear from some folks about how it pairs with the HD800 and HD600 running in balanced configuration.  Thanks!



 
 
May 24, 2011 at 3:19 PM Post #10,249 of 42,298
ok today fedex was at the door with 2 packages. guess what ...... woo audio wa5-le 
gs1000.gif
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it was boxed perfectly. the color of the black is outstanding. Much better than any photo can do justice.
 
Told jack that i will wait for the dac to come out so if it's half as good as the amp is then i will be sold.
 
Jack thanks for the outstanding delivery.
 
 
May 24, 2011 at 3:26 PM Post #10,250 of 42,298


Quote:
TV-7 testers are mutual transcondutance testers. However, there meters don't show the microhomos. They do have a conversion chart if someone wants to know what the actual microhomos is. For the 5998: 40 = 5,000.
 


And given that the target spec for a 5998 is a Gm of 15,500, that is a low reading.  But unless one OWNED a TV-7, you'd have no way of knowing this just by being given a "40". My B&K 650 lists the actual microhomos number, and I can then go reference the spec on the tube datasheet.  Makes things easy for dimwits like me
wink_face.gif

 


Quote:
Good info guys, thanks.  I can see myself buying a tube tester sometime down the road.
 
My final question is this:
 
 
Also, what do THESE numbers (the "ma" ones) mean?

 

1 low noise pair 6DJ8 Sylvania JAN NOS 1971 same date codes
1 tube) 24/26ma
1 tube) 23/26.5ma

1 low noise pair 6DJ8 Sylvania JAN NOS 1973 same date codes
1 tube) 26/29ma
1 tube) 27/29ma


Well, as I hoped my post above made clear, without knowing what tester they came from, how can we know?  I can *guess* that it refers to plate current, which is nominally 15 mA on a 6DJ8.  But the point is, when someone lists numbers without saying what the numbers are for and how they are derived, they numbers by themselves don't mean very much.
 
 
May 24, 2011 at 3:30 PM Post #10,251 of 42,298
I just got my replacement EML 5U4G from George at TubesUSA.com  I am super pleased how he handled everything.  Thanks again to George!
 
May 24, 2011 at 3:34 PM Post #10,252 of 42,298


Quote:
Good info guys, thanks.  I can see myself buying a tube tester sometime down the road.
 
My final question is this:
 
 
Also, what do THESE numbers (the "ma" ones) mean?

 

1 low noise pair 6DJ8 Sylvania JAN NOS 1971 same date codes
1 tube) 24/26ma
1 tube) 23/26.5ma

1 low noise pair 6DJ8 Sylvania JAN NOS 1973 same date codes
1 tube) 26/29ma
1 tube) 27/29ma



I found this on the internet, so take it for what it's worth.
 
How can I express transconductance in microhmos if I know the current per volt?  For instance, Euro tube mnuals, like Phillips and Telefunken list the tranconductance of the PF86 as 2.0mA/V.  American manuals express it in microhmos; I'd like to compare some pentodes that show up only in European or NA manuals, both not both.

A micromho (or microsiemen) is 1 microamp per volt.  So for example 2.0mA/volt is 2000uA/volt or 2000 micromhos.
 
So you would have to find out what the minimum value is for the tester being used to give those numbers.
 
 
May 24, 2011 at 3:45 PM Post #10,253 of 42,298
 
Quote:
I'm considering purchasing a WA22, and would sure like to hear from some folks about how it pairs with the HD800 and HD600 running in balanced configuration.  Thanks!








Quote:
Check around.  I think there are at least three guys here w/those and the WA22.  You can also check out this review since he has those http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue54/woo.htm  I have Tesla T-1's and it all sounds really great.  Tube upgrade required though.


 
I used to have the HD800 but sold it after some time with the LCD-2. I still have the HD600, and all three headphones sound great out of the WA22 but I never did find a tube combo that worked really well for both the HFD800 and the LCD-2. I am currently running the tube combo in the above review (Syl 7236 power tubes, Shuguang Treasure drivers, Sophia Princess rectifier), and it sounds great with the LCD-2 and has good synergy with the HD600 as well. Unfortunately I never did try the HD800 with that combo. With the HD800 I preferred the warmer, more euphonic signature of the TSRPs + EML Mesh plate + TS5998, as it warmed them up a bit. I thought the other combo was more neutral which I prefer with the LCD-2.
 
MikeM, you have both the LCD-2 and the HD800, and I think you have the tubes that were featured in that review as well. Have you tried that 7236/Treasure/Princess combo with your LCD-2 and/or HD800?
 
May 24, 2011 at 3:45 PM Post #10,254 of 42,298


Quote:
I found this on the internet, so take it for what it's worth.
 
How can I express transconductance in microhmos if I know the current per volt?  For instance, Euro tube mnuals, like Phillips and Telefunken list the tranconductance of the PF86 as 2.0mA/V.  American manuals express it in microhmos; I'd like to compare some pentodes that show up only in European or NA manuals, both not both.

A micromho (or microsiemen) is 1 microamp per volt.  So for example 2.0mA/volt is 2000uA/volt or 2000 micromhos.
 
So you would have to find out what the minimum value is for the tester being used to give those numbers.
 



 
By that math those tubes would have a Gm of 27,000, versus a spec for a 6DJ8 of 12,500...that doesn't seem right...
 
May 24, 2011 at 4:16 PM Post #10,255 of 42,298
Hello fellow Woo Audio owners. I have some questions about tubes (from a tube noob).
 
I've owned the WA6 for 4 months now (standard configuration), and I'm thinking about upgrading to better tubes.
 
This is my rig, by the way: Cambridge DacMagic --> WA6 --> Denon D5000.
 
First off; which tubes do I actually have now? On the rectifier tube it says "Electron Tube 274B". Is that a 5AR4?
On the drive tubes it says 6DR7. Are those equal to 6DE7?
 
What can I expect if I upgrade to Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B + 7N7 drive/power tubes? Will the sound be drastically improved compared to the standard tubes that came with the WA6?
 
May 24, 2011 at 6:54 PM Post #10,256 of 42,298


Quote:
And given that the target spec for a 5998 is a Gm of 15,500, that is a low reading. 
 


I purchased some 5998 recently which were advertised as testing at 19,800 Gm.  Is this possible or could the seller have tested them wrong?  If 15,500 is target new I either got really good tubes or the numbers were botched.  I know some tubes do test "better than NOS" but 33% over new seems a bit too good to be true.  I really hope it is though, they'll last darn near forever in that case.  :)
 
 
May 24, 2011 at 7:05 PM Post #10,257 of 42,298


Quote:
Hello fellow Woo Audio owners. I have some questions about tubes (from a tube noob).
 
I've owned the WA6 for 4 months now (standard configuration), and I'm thinking about upgrading to better tubes.
 
This is my rig, by the way: Cambridge DacMagic --> WA6 --> Denon D5000.
 
First off; which tubes do I actually have now? On the rectifier tube it says "Electron Tube 274B". Is that a 5AR4?
On the drive tubes it says 6DR7. Are those equal to 6DE7?
 
What can I expect if I upgrade to Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B + 7N7 drive/power tubes? Will the sound be drastically improved compared to the standard tubes that came with the WA6?


Your 274B is...... well, a 274B. 
biggrin.gif
  Sorry, couldn't resist.  The 274B is not the same thing as as 5AR4, but it is electrically compatible with the amp along with a dozen or so other types of rectifier tubes.  It seems many recent owners are getting a Shuguang 274B as stock now rather than NOS tubes.  The Sophia Princess is the same type of tube that you have now, only made to a higher standard.  If you like the presentation of the 274B tube, setting actual clarity of resolution aside, then you'll probably enjoy the Sophia.  What I mean by presentation are things like how vocals are presented within the stereo image (upfront or behind the instruments), how wide the soundstage is, how fast or slow the dynamics and rhythm appear to be reproduced...... things like that.  Rectifier tubes affect these qualities of the sound a lot, and if you feel the 274B isn't matching your tastes well in one of these areas you can try a different type of tube such as a 5U4G and see if it works better for you.  Decent NOS rectifiers are as little as $20 so you don't have to break the bank to experiment.
 
The 6DR7 drive tubes in the same family as the 6DE7 but don't sound identical.  For one thing they are higher gain and result in higher output power from the amp than a 6DE7 does.  The 6DE7, 6DR7 and 6CY7 are the small bottle tubes and generally have a more closed in and dynamic sound.  The 6EW7 is a bigger, wider and more relaxed sound, and the 6FD7 sits right in the middle as a kind of best of both worlds tube for many people.  IMO the 7N7 is a better option than any of them.  I use 6SN7 in my WA6 personally, which sounds very similar to the 7N7 and am extremely happy with the results.   What it will bring, more than anything, is an increased sense of refinement and finesse to the sound.  The presentation is more three dimensional and organic sounding, with overall better resolution.  In my case some of the 6SN7 also offer much better bass as well, especially in terms of response (going lower) and control (being "taut" or having a fast atttack to the note).  Impact and actual quantity of bass isn't necessarily better than, say, a 6FD7.
 
There are no wrong choices, so experiment and have fun.  But now that Jack is doing the 7N7 thing I would definitely give it a try.  7N7 tubes are generally less expensive than 6SN7 as well, though the downside is they are generally less available and have a more narrow list of choices too.  If it were me, I'd find the oldest vintage of Sylvania 7N7 you can find and go from there. 
 
Best Regards.
 
 
 
May 24, 2011 at 7:12 PM Post #10,258 of 42,298


Quote:
 
By that math those tubes would have a Gm of 27,000, versus a spec for a 6DJ8 of 12,500...that doesn't seem right...


I think your right. Just finished watching an AVO youtube video and there's a separate test for Gm (which came out as a different reading then mA). Based on that, I would ask the seller what the Gm reading is (what the minimum value on the tester for Gm is as well).
 
 
 
May 24, 2011 at 7:20 PM Post #10,259 of 42,298
Can anyone comment on their experiences at tubeworld.com?  Brenden there has been very helpful via email.
 
If their website says NOS, can I assume it tests well and do not need to ask for test results, etc?
 
May 24, 2011 at 7:25 PM Post #10,260 of 42,298
I've purchased several tubes from there. I've never had to send one back. If he says it's NOS, then I would have no reason not to believe him. All the NOS tubes I purchased from him were NOS. Forgot to mention, he usually has the test results on the invoice or paper work he sends with the tubes.
 

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