Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite
Jan 4, 2011 at 12:29 PM Post #7,636 of 42,298


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I'm happy to say I'll be joining the club with an incoming WA6. I have a few beginner questions that I'm sure have been asked/answered 100 times but...I'm going for a more 'tubey' sound so I'm going to try a Sylvania 5931 plus some RCA 6ew7's big bottle. Am I on the right track with those tubes? Edit: and I was also wondering, I'm not sure what they're called, but where do you get those tube cooling rings? I've looked around but can't seem to find them. Thanks


You can find them at Herbie's Audio Lab.  Some folks find the tube dampers (they are more for vibration control and microphonics than cooling, really) work well for them, and others find that they don't do much.  Herbie's has a 90 day full refund return policy on all of their products, though, so that should be plenty of time for you to decide if they work for you or not.
 
For me, I don't hear the improvements in sound that some people claim; I just want all my gear to be as quiet and vibration free as possible, and the tube dampers do accomplish that in my system.
 
Jan 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM Post #7,637 of 42,298

 
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Seamaster posted pictures of the stock WA22 internals here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/451678/wa22-let-s-roll-some-tubes-done-mod-burnning-in/330#post_6438909
I can't recognise what caps they are though, anyone here can identify them?
 
I guess if you really want a caps upgrade, you can provide Jack with the parts as jc9394 mentioned. I did something similar by providing Jack with Mundorf silver/gold wiring and Furutech rhodium IEC inlet for my amp. I know a guy in my area who supposedly specializes in modifying tube amps and stocks Blackgates and Mundorf caps, but I'm a little wary of trusting people other than Jack to modify my WA22.


Per my earlier post; He had the recap done by Modwright using their excellent proprietary caps they use on their own components.  Dan has the caps made to his specs.  That amp sounded outstanding at the meet I heard it at, which was just after he had the mod done so the caps had not even burned in, and I know from owning several of their components that they do take some time to burn in and sound their best.  There was no stock unit there at the meet to compare to though, and I wonder how Seamaster likes the amp at this point and if he'd ever done any comparisons. 
 
Jan 4, 2011 at 1:45 PM Post #7,639 of 42,298

 
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When he quoted me the additional $38.05 over the cost of the tube just to mail it to me and process my payment, I did ask why it cost so much. What I quoted is what he replied with. Maybe he can't meet demand or maybe he's getting a raw deal from Emission Labs, who knows. All that I do know is $13 + $8 = $21 and no other retailer even charges PayPal fees.
 
I am not the only one that takes exception to this, I posted when I ordered and got this reply, "There's gotta be a better place, or another place to get some EML.  The shipping from george to Canada was 40usd for one tube."
 
Of course there are differing opinions, "Your lucky George didn't tell you to forget it. My pair came in a box about twice the size as the box my WA6SE came in, and yes I paid the extra $25 and thanked him for the prompt shipping."
 
Anyways I did call him on it, he told me $30 and I paid anyways so I made my choice. George was able to get 110% markup on shipping so that's what he did. If he had any competition he would have to change his ways though.


Smaller companies like TubesUSA.com cannot be expected to compete with the big boys on all levels.  If you've ever tried running your own business or have been an active part of small company, you'd know this first hand.  It sounds to me that George quoted his standard rate for shipping, the same as everyone else who buys that tube from him would pay, and when you asked him he tried to politely explain some of the reasons why he charges what he does.  You agreed to pay it - you could have said no and looked for the tube elsewhere. Would you have preferred he just mark the tube itself up to $268 and offered "Free Shipping"?  If he did not pay for insurance that means that he alone is taking the risk if the tube is lost or damage in shipment, and I know he'd stand by that based upon his actions with myself and others I know.  I suppose it's his business whether he does or does not actually insure it - but it is more likely that someone just overlooked the insurance. Other retailers don't charge for Paypal because they've somehow absorbed the fee (or the same fee for using credit cards through their own bank) in some other way, either by marking the items up a bit higher, or compensating by making up for it in some other way.  I agree that it's a bit odd to break it out like that.   It is the cost of doing business and, as I pointed out to you before, if you are a small business, trying to survive, and you start giving away your time and expenses in order to try to compete with larger businesses who operate on an entirely different level, you will not stay in business long (and then where would you get your EML? - last time I checked there was not a listing on Amazon).  Why shouldn't he be charging for the time and effort it takes him, as a small shop, to pack and ship items individually, and take care of the related bookkeeping and supplies?  It's like someone taking a look at your salary from work and telling you that you shouldn't be making this much money for your time and that you could survive on less. I get that your issue here is in what George told you vs the label - so if it really bothers you that much, then write to him or call him and ask.  Personally I think this is as silly as buying something from anywhere for a price you agree upon, and then calling back and challenging the vendor for marking up their product by X amount - It's a bit insulting on some level.  But since he told you something seemingly conflicting, and that bothers you enough to post what you have about it, I would call him.
 
AFAIK, TubesUSA is the North American distributor for EML tubes.  There aren't many folks selling them as dealers in North Amercia last time I checked so the choices are limited.  They are also manufactured in very small batches and imported sporadically as they are available.  At least one of your annoyances came not from TubesUSA, but from the USPS - Priority Mail normally is delivered within 2 days of shipment, but I have noticed around these holidays that they've really slipped on that, and I do hope it is not a permanent slip as I really like that service otherwise.  In mid-December I shipped a package from Seattle to Stockton, CA by Priority.  This would normally take a day or two.  It arrived ten days later.  It had sat in a shipping center near Seattle for about five of those days for some reason (according to the tracking).  USPS could not explain it and would not refund my money because the service is not guaranteed.  So if George was reasonably expecting a 2-day service from them, I think he was probably surprised like many others have been, and is probably as disappointed as you are at that service.  Again, given that your complaint is with something George told you, I would take it up directly with him before posting about it on a public forum.  I bought an EML tube from him several years ago and paid just about the same price for shipping.  It arrived in two days in my case.  I don't recall using PayPal though. 
 
 
Jan 4, 2011 at 1:49 PM Post #7,640 of 42,298
Sorry to hear you also have a scratch on you WA2 - that's not impressive at all, I was hoping for a better quality control on Jack side. Concerning stepped attenuator, switching between the notches on my stepped attenuator is usually noise free. I did hear a slight noise couple of times between the notches - very soft, when I just got the WA2, but in a several weeks since I've had it - attenuator has been quiet.
 
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Guys, my WA2 hams when connected to the main A/V system as a pre at any volume, but is fine when listening through headphones. When I lift the ground by using a two prong power cable, hum disappears. Is this a typical grounding issue? Is there any harm in running WA2 without ground?
 
I actually want to comment on how quite WA2 are though the headphones, the noise floor on this amp is amazing.
 
On a negative side, I have a small cosmetic defect (scratch) on my WA2. Has anyone else got any blemishes on their new Woo amps or am I the only lucky one. It's small enough that I feel silly that I'm bothered by it, but by the same talking it bugs me. 


I also have a scratch on my WA2. It's on lid of the middle "box" situated behind the 6922 tubes. It used to bug me but not anymore. But what bugs me a little is that I hear a static-type sound when switch from one detent to the next on my stepped attenuator. Does anyone else experience that?



 
Jan 4, 2011 at 2:10 PM Post #7,641 of 42,298


Quote:
 

Smaller companies like TubesUSA.com cannot be expected to compete with the big boys on all levels.  If you've ever tried running your own business or have been an active part of small company, you'd know this first hand.  It sounds to me that George quoted his standard rate for shipping, the same as everyone else who buys that tube from him would pay, and when you asked him he tried to politely explain some of the reasons why he charges what he does.  You agreed to pay it - you could have said no and looked for the tube elsewhere. Would you have preferred he just mark the tube itself up to $268 and offered "Free Shipping"?  If he did not pay for insurance that means that he alone is taking the risk if the tube is lost or damage in shipment, and I know he'd stand by that based upon his actions with myself and others I know.  I suppose it's his business whether he does or does not actually insure it - but it is more likely that someone just overlooked the insurance. Other retailers don't charge for Paypal because they've somehow absorbed the fee (or the same fee for using credit cards through their own bank) in some other way, either by marking the items up a bit higher, or compensating by making up for it in some other way.  I agree that it's a bit odd to break it out like that.   It is the cost of doing business and, as I pointed out to you before, if you are a small business, trying to survive, and you start giving away your time and expenses in order to try to compete with larger businesses who operate on an entirely different level, you will not stay in business long (and then where would you get your EML? - last time I checked there was not a listing on Amazon).  Why shouldn't he be charging for the time and effort it takes him, as a small shop, to pack and ship items individually, and take care of the related bookkeeping and supplies?  It's like someone taking a look at your salary from work and telling you that you shouldn't be making this much money for your time and that you could survive on less. I get that your issue here is in what George told you vs the label - so if it really bothers you that much, then write to him or call him and ask.  Personally I think this is as silly as buying something from anywhere for a price you agree upon, and then calling back and challenging the vendor for marking up their product by X amount - It's a bit insulting on some level.  But since he told you something seemingly conflicting, and that bothers you enough to post what you have about it, I would call him.
 
AFAIK, TubesUSA is the North American distributor for EML tubes.  There aren't many folks selling them as dealers in North Amercia last time I checked so the choices are limited.  They are also manufactured in very small batches and imported sporadically as they are available.  At least one of your annoyances came not from TubesUSA, but from the USPS - Priority Mail normally is delivered within 2 days of shipment, but I have noticed around these holidays that they've really slipped on that, and I do hope it is not a permanent slip as I really like that service otherwise.  In mid-December I shipped a package from Seattle to Stockton, CA by Priority.  This would normally take a day or two.  It arrived ten days later.  It had sat in a shipping center near Seattle for about five of those days for some reason (according to the tracking).  USPS could not explain it and would not refund my money because the service is not guaranteed.  So if George was reasonably expecting a 2-day service from them, I think he was probably surprised like many others have been, and is probably as disappointed as you are at that service.  Again, given that your complaint is with something George told you, I would take it up directly with him before posting about it on a public forum.  I bought an EML tube from him several years ago and paid just about the same price for shipping.  It arrived in two days in my case.  I don't recall using PayPal though. 
 


X2.  The postage you see printed does not includes the insurance he paid.  One thing most people forget that he also paid for the shipping box too, for a small business owners, these add up really fast. 
 
Jan 4, 2011 at 2:37 PM Post #7,642 of 42,298
 
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X2.  The postage you see printed does not includes the insurance he paid.  One thing most people forget that he also paid for the shipping box too, for a small business owners, these add up really fast. 



That is just not true. As I have already said I checked the postage online and a 1 lb. 8 oz box shipped Priority Mail from his zip code to mine insured for $200 is $12.95. The postage alone is $10.20, or $9.37 if paid online. The shipping box was a recycled Staples box, but perhaps the cost of foam peanuts has gone through the roof.
 
Jan 4, 2011 at 2:37 PM Post #7,643 of 42,298


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Wonder how they compare to BGs...


Have you looked into Auria caps?  I had a transport modded with Auria caps and imaging was really solid.  Also had position within the soundstage as well as left and right positioning.
 
 
Jan 4, 2011 at 2:46 PM Post #7,644 of 42,298
The customer service one receives from small vendors cannot be quantified in dollars and cents.  When I thought I had an issue with my EML I called George and HE answered the phone and assured me he would deal with the issue if it was the tube.  Don't know about you, but to me that's worth a little extra postage.  The vendor only matters when there is an issue and the small companies seem to excel at this.
 
Jan 4, 2011 at 3:13 PM Post #7,645 of 42,298


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That is just not true. As I have already said I checked the postage online and a 1 lb. 8 oz box shipped Priority Mail from his zip code to mine insured for $200 is $12.95. The postage alone is $10.20, or $9.37 if paid online. The shipping box was a recycled Staples box, but perhaps the cost of foam peanuts has gone through the roof.



I just shipped something out last Friday and the postage printed $15.xx but I paid close to $20, the insurance amount does not print on the postage label.  I'm not going to argue with you but if you think he is not honest or feel cheated, don't order from him again.
 
Now, let's get back to Woo related topics.
 
Jan 4, 2011 at 5:56 PM Post #7,646 of 42,298
 
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That is just not true. As I have already said I checked the postage online and a 1 lb. 8 oz box shipped Priority Mail from his zip code to mine insured for $200 is $12.95. The postage alone is $10.20, or $9.37 if paid online. The shipping box was a recycled Staples box, but perhaps the cost of foam peanuts has gone through the roof.


I just shipped something out last Friday and the postage printed $15.xx but I paid close to $20, the insurance amount does not print on the postage label.  I'm not going to argue with you but if you think he is not honest or feel cheated, don't order from him again.
 
Now, let's get back to Woo related topics.


 
Well it sure sounds like you are arguing, so I will respond by giving you the Zip codes so you can check it out yourself using the above link. 11554 to 99676, 1lb. 8oz. He didn't print the label himself, he paid at the post office. I ship packages all over the US and the world every week without overcharging somehow, and don't appreciate this condescension.
 
I'm sorry I brought it up, but everything I have said is true. As I have also said already, I was upset at the time because of the contrast to what he had told me via email. But it is not me that won't let this subject die...
 
Luckily I won't have to order from him again, as I just discovered that TubesUSA isn't the only game in town after all. I am in the process of ordering another one for comparison from EML's other U.S. based distributor, located in California. Hopefully this one doesn't charge $38 to process a payment and mail a single tube.
 
Jan 4, 2011 at 6:53 PM Post #7,647 of 42,298
grokit,
 
I too ordered a 5U4G from George w/the same charge.  I was equally upset by it but then I never asked about the ship charge and thought the dollar imbalance had caused the price to boost.  After the fact I really had no one to blame but myself and did find someone else who sells them: http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/eml5u4gmesh.html  The ship charge I come up with is $15 total.  Not a lot of money but I really hate paying more for shipping.  My Shuguang Treasues shipped free from China!  Of course it's built in.
 
Jax,
 
I thought someone here said a modded WA22 was a no-go from Jack.  I have internal pictures on mine too.  The BG stuff on JC's looks way cool.  I'd love to hear it.................or maybe not!
 
Jan 4, 2011 at 7:22 PM Post #7,648 of 42,298
 
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grokit,
 
I too ordered a 5U4G from George w/the same charge.  I was equally upset by it but then I never asked about the ship charge and thought the dollar imbalance had caused the price to boost.  After the fact I really had no one to blame but myself and did find someone else who sells them: http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/eml5u4gmesh.html  The ship charge I come up with is $15 total.  Not a lot of money but I really hate paying more for shipping.  My Shuguang Treasues shipped free from China!  Of course it's built in.


Nice find, a point-and-click purchase with no BS; I've bookmarked it and thanks for posting!
 
Jan 4, 2011 at 7:26 PM Post #7,649 of 42,298
Cool thanks Red Jacket Mike thats what I'm looking for, once I get which tubes I'm going to use finalized maybe I'll give those a try.
 
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I'm happy to say I'll be joining the club with an incoming WA6. I have a few beginner questions that I'm sure have been asked/answered 100 times but...I'm going for a more 'tubey' sound so I'm going to try a Sylvania 5931 plus some RCA 6ew7's big bottle. Am I on the right track with those tubes? Edit: and I was also wondering, I'm not sure what they're called, but where do you get those tube cooling rings? I've looked around but can't seem to find them. Thanks


You can find them at Herbie's Audio Lab.  Some folks find the tube dampers (they are more for vibration control and microphonics than cooling, really) work well for them, and others find that they don't do much.  Herbie's has a 90 day full refund return policy on all of their products, though, so that should be plenty of time for you to decide if they work for you or not.
 
For me, I don't hear the improvements in sound that some people claim; I just want all my gear to be as quiet and vibration free as possible, and the tube dampers do accomplish that in my system.



 

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