[Fririce0003]

At $16k for the existing 234 there should be no improvements possible. It should already have the absolute best components. Very sad reflection on Woo Audio if this is not already the case.

To be honest, owning the 234's and having spent that money on them, I'm actually happy that Jack is still looking at ways to improve and upgrade them in terms of sound quality. It means that the company, and industry, are still progressing rather than stagnating.
Also with flagship products it's not just manufacturing and parts that they're covering with the cost. It research, design and testing. Headphone amps are still a relatively niche market and they have to recuperate their costs, the 234's weren't made to sell the same numbers as something like the WA6. Being a flagship product they also don't benefit from trickle down technology as they're what is providing that trickle down reference.
There would be a fair bit involved in improving upon a flagship product such as the 234; corrispondence with existing owners, testing out design ideas, manufacturing prototypes, sourcing components and everything in between. Then there's also custom components, it wouldn't be cheap to custom build output transformers, experimenting with different materials and configurations. And that's without accounting for the time spent on evaluating the differences and prospective improvements.
Plus I'm sure there would've still wen some design compromises on the 234's, such as the driver tubes, the C3G may be more electrically suited to the 300B and 274B, but tube variants and availability aren't near that of the 6SN7. I'm sure Jack brought that into consideration on the 234, after all a lot of people buy tube amps to tube roll.
If Jack did end up releasing a "Super" 234, I'd be more than happy to jump on the upgrade should there be improvements across the board and my funds allow.
But that's all just my 2¢, I've always had an appreciation for good engineering and pushing the envelope.

 

[leftside]

Can't argue with wanting to improve as newer technologies/methods become available. Perhaps I should rephrase and say "At $16k for the existing 234 there should be no (known) improvements possible. It should already have the absolute best components (known today)"

 

[Badas]

 
Do you have any balanced cables? or can you borrow some? if so compare those to some RCA's, match levels etc, you should hear an improvement across the board using the RCA's and you will know for future reference. Do you have any hum issues, I seem to recall you did some ago? If you were using balanced cables they could be the source of the problem.
 
 

 
Yeah I have balanced cables. At the moment I have them going from the Vega to my SS amp (Oppo HA-1). RCA from Vega to the Woo. Before I did this I ran both to the Woo and tested (I can just toggle a switch at the back of the WA22 to change inputs). They were both at the same volume level. I couldn't hear an advantage or disadvantage in either. To my ears they were 100% the same. I started listening to RCA and listened for faults (especially in treble harshness *cough* Adel *cough*

). I would pick something up and get excited expecting not to hear it in balanced. Balanced would do the same. I just couldn't hear a difference. So in the end I thought my SS amp would benefit more from balanced so I gave it the signal and kept the Woo on RCA. Seems like I made the right choice.
 

Just wanted to point out that the older WA22's like mine, that were made before the wiring change of a couple of years ago, only give half the volume when used single ended which is the reason I use mine balanced.

 
Are you talking about the HP output or the signal input? So let me get this right. If using the RCA input on a older WA22 it is quieter? I can understand you using balanced then.
 
I'm using RCA input then balanced to my HP's. I just like the balanced HP connection better than single ended. It feels better connected.

 

[Stereolab42]

 
Re the C3G I would be very interested to hear from Glenn as to what is the best driver tube to use within a 300B and 274B environment. I know there are other options. I asked Thomas Mayer (http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com.au) if he could build me a good headphone amp and if so what kind of cost? The answer was yes and if I wanted the ultimate (Silver wound transformers etc) he could offer solutions, expensive ones. 

 
This is an extract from his email which is interesting as I had sent him pics of the inside of the 234's. 
 
" I usually try to keep chassis cost at a minimum and rather spend for top quality parts. For example I avoid electrolytic caps as can be seen everywhere in the photos you sent. Quality of caps, power supply and transformers far outweigh the sound impact of just the tubes. Also the driver tube has a significant importance. I can offer directly heated triodes also in the driver which are far superior sounding.
 
It is difficult to proceed without an idea for the budget. I have built headphone amps for 4000 Euros and can offer solutions up to 75.000,- Euros if all transformers shall be silver wound on finemet cores. Fully transformer coupled and all DHT triode throughout. "

 
Umm, the Audio Note amps which cost north of $100k also use electrolytic caps:
 
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0810/audio_note_uk_ongaku.htm
 
"Being of the Level 5 family, the Ongaku also uses Audio Note 2 watt Tantalum resistors, Black Gate electrolytics, in-house designed and made Audio Note 99.99% pure silver wired double AN-Perma 50 nickel C-core output transformer, SHiB double C-core mains transformer and Audio Note's handmade 23 position attenuator."
 
The Black Gate caps are also used in the upgraded WA5 internals (at least as of when mine was built) and are universally considered outstanding for SQ (and aren't even made anymore). I hope nobody is jumping to conclusions about what people are saying about their competitors... and I'm sure Glenn isn't jumping in because he's professional enough not to comment negatively/positively about the internals of a competing amp.

 

[Porteroso]

  Anyone have a source for 6F8G adapters to 6SN7?  I bought a pair off eBay, but there's a lot of occasional chatter in the left channel.  It could be the tube, I don't have a 2nd pair, but eliminating the adapter as a noise source is a lot cheaper than picking up another pair of VT-99s.
 
Thanks

This is 3 days late, but it is probably the tube. Most of my 6F8Gs have some noise, at least in one or the other. Many started with noise in both ears. Cleaning the pins eliminates most of the noise, but some of it is just how it is seated. I have both an ebay and glenn set of 6F8G-->6SN7 adapters, and while the Glenns look better and are constructed with better everything, there is no difference in sound, and even functionality. I really doubt that the adapter would be producing noise, when the dirtiness of so many of these tubes' pins has haunted many of us.

 

[Badas]

  This is 3 days late, but it is probably the tube. Most of my 6F8Gs have some noise, at least in one or the other. Many started with noise in both ears. Cleaning the pins eliminates most of the noise, but some of it is just how it is seated. I have both an ebay and glenn set of 6F8G-->6SN7 adapters, and while the Glenns look better and are constructed with better everything, there is no difference in sound, and even functionality. I really doubt that the adapter would be producing noise, when the dirtiness of so many of these tubes' pins has haunted many of us.

Good post. Good Point.
 
Tube pins being clean is soooooooooo damn important. If I could tell a new tube amp owner just one bloody thing it would be CLEAN EVERY TUBE PIN BEFORE INSTALLING. Even if they look clean.
 
Buy some DeOxit. The stuff is really valuable.
 
It is amazing how much gunk comes off pins that look clean. That gunk makes it's way into the amp sockets eventually. So even if you remove the noisy tube and put in a clean one the sockets become dirty. I cleaned my sockets a while back it was amazing the crap that came out of them. I make sure every tube pin is rubbed with DeOxit before installing.
 
http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITKit-Industrial-Survival-pouch-1-5in/dp/B004GE15JG/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1459987266&sr=8-21&keywords=Deoxit
 
http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-Laboratories-DeoxIT-Sampler-Kit/dp/B0018KNHRY/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1459987306&sr=8-23&keywords=Deoxit
 
http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITLiquid-squeeze-tube-100%25-solution/dp/B0015A5AAY/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1459987342&sr=8-7&keywords=Deoxit

 

[leftside]

Yes indeed. Deoxit for cleaning and then Deoxit gold for a little conditioning for every tube pin before it goes into the socket. I leave mine overnight to settle/dry. Just be careful how you hold the tube. Very easy to rub off the lettering if it is on the glass....

 

[Badas]

  Yes indeed. Deoxit for cleaning and then Deoxit gold for a little conditioning for every tube pin before it goes into the socket. I leave mine overnight to settle/dry. Just be careful how you hold the tube. Very easy to rub off the lettering if it is on the glass....

 
I was told that DeOxit gold was only for gold pins. Just a conditioner. For silver pins you are suppose to only use the standard DeOxit. No conditioner required.

 

[leftside]

You might be right, but this is what I read here. Also makes it slightly easier to insert and remove the tubes.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/365765/which-craig-deoxit-for-cleaning-tube-pins
 
I can't believe the amount of gunk that came off some of my tube pins (that looked clean).

 

[Badas]

  You might be right, but this is what I read here. Also makes it slightly easier to insert and remove the tubes.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/365765/which-craig-deoxit-for-cleaning-tube-pins
 
I can't believe the amount of gunk that came off some of my tube pins (that looked clean).

 
I don't think either of us is right or wrong. Or maybe both of us a wrong.

Or right.

 
I use to do exactly what you said. Normal first. Gold to coat.
 
Then I read the instructions on Gold. Somewhere in the blurb it said to use on gold connections only. Gold pins and RCA connections.
 
It also says to do a clean every year. I don't really think that is needed. Once they are clean and installed they should be okay. They warn you can get corrosion over a year. Think about it our pins get hot. For corrosion you need dirt and water. If they go in clean there is no dirt. If the pins get hot any moisture would evaporate. No dirt and no moisture means no corrosion. So I'm not doing mine every year.
 
Yeah gunk. It is amazing how you can have really shiny looking pins. Then I get a cotton bud (I don't know what you call them overseas), put DeOxit on the bud and then rub/wipe. The bud turns from white to black with gunk.

 

[phase0]

As a newb I can re-emphasize the great advice to get deoxit! I few weeks back I was complaining about noisy tubes and also noticing how dirty some pins were. I tried rubbing alcohol and that did help but didn't fix it. Now that I got deoxit like others said it's amazing how much gunk it gets off the pins. Once I realized how dirty these tubes are I'm now cleaning all the tubes I'm getting before they get inserted.

 

[Bitten by Bug]

   
I don't think either of us is right or wrong. Or maybe both of us a wrong.

Or right.

 
I use to do exactly what you said. Normal first. Gold to coat.
 
Then I read the instructions on Gold. Somewhere in the blurb it said to use on gold connections only. Gold pins and RCA connections.
 
It also says to do a clean every year. I don't really think that is needed. Once they are clean and installed they should be okay. They warn you can get corrosion over a year. Think about it our pins get hot. For corrosion you need dirt and water. If they go in clean there is no dirt. If the pins get hot any moisture would evaporate. No dirt and no moisture means no corrosion. So I'm not doing mine every year.
 
Yeah gunk. It is amazing how you can have really shiny looking pins. Then I get a cotton bud (I don't know what you call them overseas), put DeOxit on the bud and then rub/wipe. The bud turns from white to black with gunk.

 
In the States, they are called cotton balls!  Ha Ha.  Used to use 600 grit wet sandpaper to clean contacts with isopropyl alcohol.  This stuff looks lots easier!

 

[Badas]

   
In the States, they are called cotton balls!  Ha Ha.  Used to use 600 grit wet sandpaper to clean contacts with isopropyl alcohol.  This stuff looks lots easier!

I knew you guys would have another word for it. I thought bud would get a few laughs.

 
It is a bit like soft drink / fizzy drink v's pop. Car parks v's parking lot. Motorway v's freeway.

 

[Bitten by Bug]

 

I knew you guys would have another word for it. I thought bud would get a few laughs.

 
It is a bit like soft drink / fizzy drink v's pop. Car parks v's parking lot. Motorway v's freeway.

Yup, you threw out the bait and got a bite on that old fishing pole. 

Is always interesting to learn local jargon. And yeah, elected to take the high road.

 

[Krutsch]

  ...
 
Buy some DeOxit. The stuff is really valuable.
 
...

 
I have starting doing this with interconnects, as well. Surprised at the difference it makes on RCA connectors that look clean.