[ClieOS]

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Not sure what that option would be. Are you thinking of something like the fiio e9/o7or e17 combo?
Does that have really good SQ. I have also a ZVOX audio unit for my TV I don't know if that is a option ? thanks

 
I am thinking something more high-end, given the headphone we are talking about. E17 sounds a little different from E11, but the overall SQ is comparable between the two. So if you want something better than E11, you need to go higher up. That's why I suggest you give E11 a listen first, then you can decide whether it is good enough or not.

 

[Mitchm]

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I am thinking something more high-end, given the headphone we are talking about. E17 sounds a little different from E11, but the overall SQ is comparable between the two. So if you want something better than E11, you need to go higher up. That's why I suggest you give E11 a listen first, then you can decide whether it is good enough or not.

Okay you surprised me with the E17 Amp/Dac suggestion, I guess you mean the stand alone E17 not with the E9. You had me looking for desk tops without one of your shoot outs which was difficult. I enjoy the shootouts that is to say keep up the good work. I was thinking the Schilt 200.00 combo and the O2 combo and tubes that so many are suggesting. I was thinking what am I getting myself into and having second thoughts about the HD 650 it was becoming more than I wanted to get into. The E17 is 139.00 which is the same or 10.00 more than the E12. If you say so I will pull the trigger. Maybe your thinking E17 because I'm using the MacBook now at low volume and I'm satisfied. I'm 60 years old so I don't blast the music.  We are on the same page the E17 right? Thanks for your reply.

 

[Mitchm]

Quote:

Okay you surprised me with the E17 Amp/Dac suggestion, I guess you mean the stand alone E17 not with the E9. You had me looking for desk tops without one of your shoot outs which was difficult. I enjoy the shootouts that is to say keep up the good work. I was thinking the Schilt 200.00 combo and the O2 combo and tubes that so many are suggesting. I was thinking what am I getting myself into and having second thoughts about the HD 650 it was becoming more than I wanted to get into. The E17 is 139.00 which is the same or 10.00 more than the E12. If you say so I will pull the trigger. Maybe your thinking E17 because I'm using the MacBook now at low volume and I'm satisfied. I'm 60 years old so I don't blast the music.  We are on the same page the E17 right? Thanks for your reply.

I looked at the Fii0 site and it said it runs HP's up to 150ohm, Amazon said up to 300ohms and Micca said up to 600ohms. You got to love it.

 

[Evshrug]

I looked at the Fii0 site and it said it runs HP's up to 150ohm, Amazon said up to 300ohms and Micca said up to 600ohms. You got to love it.

Lol I hear you, but obviously a salesman's definition of "Runs up to Xxx ohms!" is a bit misleading, as you saw. The impedance of a headphone is (unfortunately) just part of the story, sensitivity is the other part. I admit, I myself haven't learned a formula to follow, but basically if you see a manufacturer publish how many mW @ an ohm rating close to your headphones (which thankfully FiiO usually publishes three or more power into ohm ratings), you'll know which amps are more powerful, and give you more headroom and control to work with.

One thing I've noticed with my Q701, I have to turn the volume setting on my iPod much higher to hear the same "volume" loudness as my AD700 or Etymotic IEMs. So sometimes you simply need a more powerful amp to reach normal listening levels. The other thing a powerful amp does is it can handle voltage swings better... For instance, I have an E12 (and a nice desktop tube amp), and these amps at listening volume distinctly help my headphones have more controlled and musical bass, as well as reducing how sharp (sometimes painful) the higher trebles can sound.

Does this help any?

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Okay you surprised me with the E17 Amp/Dac suggestion, I guess you mean the stand alone E17 not with the E9. You had me looking for desk tops without one of your shoot outs which was difficult. I enjoy the shootouts that is to say keep up the good work. I was thinking the Schilt 200.00 combo and the O2 combo and tubes that so many are suggesting. I was thinking what am I getting myself into and having second thoughts about the HD 650 it was becoming more than I wanted to get into. The E17 is 139.00 which is the same or 10.00 more than the E12. If you say so I will pull the trigger. Maybe your thinking E17 because I'm using the MacBook now at low volume and I'm satisfied. I'm 60 years old so I don't blast the music.  We are on the same page the E17 right? Thanks for your reply.

 
If there is no particular reason from stopping you, E17 should do well enough. It is not the best ever but it is far from being weak or bad sounding either. It is kind of at the middle point of portable amp but the price is affordable so there really isn't much to complaint about.

 

[harryyeo]

ClieOS, do you think it's a good idea to use the E12 with earbuds like PK1 or Dragon 2?

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

ClieOS, do you think it's a good idea to use the E12 with earbuds like PK1 or Dragon 2?

Technically, E12 should drive both without any problem. Synergy wise, I would consider E12 to go better with earbuds than IEM because earbuds have much wider soundstage than IEM so they will compensate for E12 lack of a wide soundstage.

 

[Mitchm]

Quote:

Lol I hear you, but obviously a salesman's definition of "Runs up to Xxx ohms!" is a bit misleading, as you saw. The impedance of a headphone is (unfortunately) just part of the story, sensitivity is the other part. I admit, I myself haven't learned a formula to follow, but basically if you see a manufacturer publish how many mW @ an ohm rating close to your headphones (which thankfully FiiO usually publishes three or more power into ohm ratings), you'll know which amps are more powerful, and give you more headroom and control to work with.

One thing I've noticed with my Q701, I have to turn the volume setting on my iPod much higher to hear the same "volume" loudness as my AD700 or Etymotic IEMs. So sometimes you simply need a more powerful amp to reach normal listening levels. The other thing a powerful amp does is it can handle voltage swings better... For instance, I have an E12 (and a nice desktop tube amp), and these amps at listening volume distinctly help my headphones have more controlled and musical bass, as well as reducing how sharp (sometimes painful) the higher trebles can sound.

Does this help any?

I think I understand. I had the HD598 for a week using it mostly on my Mac Book un amped and I think I felt some swings, for a while it felt full and rich in sound and then it didn't. So I guess a good amp would fill that void. Is that what your saying? My A900x feels very good most of the time un amped. This issue of Amps and Dacs is stretching out my mind a little more then I was willing to go LOL. I'm still wondering how good my MacBook is as far as Amp and Dacs are concerned. It sounds nice you have a Tube set up and the E12. CLieOS is suggesting the E17k I do like the idea of having a portable device with an equalizer so I can change settings. Another Head Flier said the E17 is very good Dac so later I could add the O2 amp if one desires. What say you?

 

[Mitchm]

Quote:

I think I understand. I had the HD598 for a week using it mostly on my Mac Book un amped and I think I felt some swings, for a while it felt full and rich in sound and then it didn't. So I guess a good amp would fill that void. Is that what your saying? My A900x feels very good most of the time un amped. This issue of Amps and Dacs is stretching out my mind a little more then I was willing to go LOL. I'm still wondering how good my MacBook is as far as Amp and Dacs are concerned. It sounds nice you have a Tube set up and the E12. CLieOS is suggesting the E17k I do like the idea of having a portable device with an equalizer so I can change settings. Another Head Flier said the E17 is very good Dac so later I could add the O2 amp if one desires. What say you?

I have a question on the E12 sounds like a great amp but now what do u do for a Dac? 

 

[Evshrug]

I think I understand. I had the HD598 for a week using it mostly on my Mac Book un amped and I think I felt some swings, for a while it felt full and rich in sound and then it didn't. So I guess a good amp would fill that void. Is that what your saying? My A900x feels very good most of the time un amped. This issue of Amps and Dacs is stretching out my mind a little more then I was willing to go LOL. I'm still wondering how good my MacBook is as far as Amp and Dacs are concerned. It sounds nice you have a Tube set up and the E12. CLieOS is suggesting the E17k I do like the idea of having a portable device with an equalizer so I can change settings. Another Head Flier said the E17 is very good Dac so later I could add the O2 amp if one desires. What say you?

Well... Sometimes it's good to stretch your mind out, keeps you able to learn which is a healthy thing indeed. In general, I highly respect ClieOS' opinion, I bought my first amp (with less knowledge than you have now) based on his review and info about 4 and a half years ago, so if his review and suggestion sound good to you, I'd say you'll have a pretty good product and you'll understand what he was talking about once you get it.

Personally, I had an iBook, PowerBook G4, and a MacBook Pro, and they all had above average built-in DACs and amps. I think that was partially due to Apple's stance that their products were designed for media creation, and partially because Steve Jobs was a big music fan. I don't think your MacBook has quite the quality of my Pro model (and no optical output to connect to an external DAC that way), but my girlfriend has one like yours and it does a better job with audio than the rather noisy headphone jacks on the motherboard of the Windows machine I just built myself. So I don't think your MacBook needs a DAC as much, but it probably would benefit from one. Definitely, the 300 Ohm Sennheiser HD650 will dampen the sound a lot more than the 50 ohm HD598 you used before, and the E17's amping half will probably be only "just" enough amp for them (it's an entry-level amp, after all, that you're pairing with a venerable flagship headphone).

I dunno... I guess the good thing is, you could go ahead and buy the E17, and later if you want, you could buy the FiiO E09k desktop amp. The E17 actually docks into the E09k and operates purely in DAC mode, and the E09k does the heavy lifting as an amp. The E09k is about three times as powerful an amp as the E17, and really only slightly less "transportable" than the odd-shaped Objective2 amp you mentioned, that typically wouldn't fit in a pocket either anyway. So you can buy the E17 and see how you like it, and later on you have a nicely integrated option to upgrade to without making the E17 redundant. I think that was a pretty smart design by FiiO (though of course, any external DAC can be connected to another external amp).

I have a question on the E12 sounds like a great amp but now what do u do for a Dac? 

You could just continue using the DAC built-in to your MacBook, or later on plug in a DAC like the HRT Music Streamer II or an ODAC (which I borrowed once, but couldn't get to work on my home built computer, I guess I am missing a driver or something). Any external DAC would do. FWIR, the E12 (Mont Blanc) has about as much power as an E09k desktop amp, which is pretty cool for a portable amp. I like my E12 very much.

If you lived in Pittsburgh, I'd be more than happy to meet and share an audition of my gear, though I haven't sampled as much as ClieOS has.

 

[Mitchm]

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Well... Sometimes it's good to stretch your mind out, keeps you able to learn which is a healthy thing indeed. In general, I highly respect ClieOS' opinion, I bought my first amp (with less knowledge than you have now) based on his review and info about 4 and a half years ago, so if his review and suggestion sound good to you, I'd say you'll have a pretty good product and you'll understand what he was talking about once you get it.

Personally, I had an iBook, PowerBook G4, and a MacBook Pro, and they all had above average built-in DACs and amps. I think that was partially due to Apple's stance that their products were designed for media creation, and partially because Steve Jobs was a big music fan. I don't think your MacBook has quite the quality of my Pro model (and no optical output to connect to an external DAC that way), but my girlfriend has one like yours and it does a better job with audio than the rather noisy headphone jacks on the motherboard of the Windows machine I just built myself. So I don't think your MacBook needs a DAC as much, but it probably would benefit from one. Definitely, the 300 Ohm Sennheiser HD650 will dampen the sound a lot more than the 50 ohm HD598 you used before, and the E17's amping half will probably be only "just" enough amp for them (it's an entry-level amp, after all, that you're pairing with a venerable flagship headphone).

I dunno... I guess the good thing is, you could go ahead and buy the E17, and later if you want, you could buy the FiiO E09k desktop amp. The E17 actually docks into the E09k and operates purely in DAC mode, and the E09k does the heavy lifting as an amp. The E09k is about three times as powerful an amp as the E17, and really only slightly less "transportable" than the odd-shaped Objective2 amp you mentioned, that typically wouldn't fit in a pocket either anyway. So you can buy the E17 and see how you like it, and later on you have a nicely integrated option to upgrade to without making the E17 redundant. I think that was a pretty smart design by FiiO (though of course, any external DAC can be connected to another external amp).
You could just continue using the DAC built-in to your MacBook, or later on plug in a DAC like the HRT Music Streamer II or an ODAC (which I borrowed once, but couldn't get to work on my home built computer, I guess I am missing a driver or something). Any external DAC would do. FWIR, the E12 (Mont Blanc) has about as much power as an E09k desktop amp, which is pretty cool for a portable amp. I like my E12 very much.

If you lived in Pittsburgh, I'd be more than happy to meet and share an audition of my gear, though I haven't sampled as much as ClieOS has.

That's a very nice offer but I live in Monterey, CA. Wow you gave me a lot of information that's very nice of you. My first thought when I started looking into powering the HD 650 was the E12 a lot of attention was on the E12 because it was new and powerful so it caught my attention. The E12 is rated higher in ClieOS reviews than the E17 I wasn't sure why he didn't recommend the E12. He first suggested the Leckerton 6 MKll which wasn't available. I also was surprise with his E17 suggestion, but then I thought like you I could also purchase the E09k and it sounds like a good deal. But a lot of people suggested the desk top which I'm sure is very good, but the portable would be so versatile. The E17 has the adjustments in sound and has a Dac. I'm glad you have experience  with the Mac and your saying with the E12 and Mac I may not need another Dac. The only other thing was the equalizer issue which maybe you know about. The Mog service doesn't have an equalizer but still sounds great. The Mac book equalizer on Itunes which I don't use much is sort of poor wouldn't you agree? CLieOS did rate the SQ much better with the E12 in his reviews but he didn't comment on the E17 with the E9k SQ. I just received a E11 tonight which I haven't opened because I ordered it for the HD598 which I returned so I may send it back and I'm sure Micca would prefer I not open it if I'm going to return it. I'm wanting to try it because I have never tried one. I feel you educated me thanks. What would you do sounds like I have some good choices now. It maybe better than the Schitt.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

.. CLieOS did rate the SQ much better with the E12 in his reviews but he didn't comment on the E17 with the E9k SQ....

It has been mentioned in the E17 review. E9 / E09K doesn't out perform E17 in lower volume. What you get from E09K is more power and higher volume output.

 

[Mitchm]

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It has been mentioned in the E17 review. E9 / E09K doesn't out perform E17 in lower volume. What you get from E09K is more power and higher volume output.

Yes I do listen in lower volume your very thoughtful. It's amazing how you can detail your thoughts on all these variations, of so much equipment.!

 

[steveting99]

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...If you like to save a bit but still want really good sound quality, then consider a separated USB DAC, plus an portable amp. The would open up a lot more options.
 
 

 
Hi ClieOS, what would you consider to be a great portable USB DAC? I'm interested in getting one that can bypass the smartphone's DAC.
 
Steve

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

 
Hi ClieOS, what would you consider to be a great portable USB DAC? I'm interested in getting one that can bypass the smartphone's DAC.
 
Steve

 
Great or not might have less to do with it. First, you'll need a smartphone that has USB Audio Class driver (i.e. S3, note II, etc) and has enough power supply for the USB DAC. Here is a list that works with Android: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/480#post_8770762
 
If you have Apple iPhone, then the list is much shorter and much much more expensive.