The Stax thread (New)

[blessingx]

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Originally Posted by gp_hebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for the politeness, I wish my setup was a little bit "edgier" too, but I found out that source can help that quite a bit. Before yesterday, I used a 0404 USB which does a good job for mid-fi headphones, but definitely bottlenecks the OII. I upgraded to the Apogee Duet which uses an excellent DAC chip and the difference is huge. The system is a lot more lively now and everything is much tighter. It still "smooths out" my rock and metal a little bit more than I wish though. I've never heard a Lavry DA10 so I don't know if it's supposed to have a warm signature, but you could try a bright source to see if it helps. For the amp, there are other possibilities than the Blue Hawaii like the KGSS, the Woo GES and the McAlister amps which are all significantly cheaper than the Blue Hawaii. I don't have any experience with them, but there are a lot of threads about them.

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Originally Posted by derekbmn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you still have your SP Extreme ? I believe it can serve as an active preamp....correct ? Try inserting it ahead of the Stax amp . Max out the volume knob on the 007t and control the volume with the Extreme. (or experiment and find out what works best) Please post your results if you could.

Thanks for the feedback buys. The thing is I bought the 007t after I realized the price it would cost to get the GES or KGSS with similar features - that I use. Basically getting a normal bias jack (or second amp) and a loop/preamp (or second source). That moves both amps past a smallish $500 bump.

I haven't decided about source, but I respect the Lavry quite a bit and like its synergy on my other equipment. Plus the Pico (yeah that little thing) is surprising good with everything else I've tried it with and a tad more forward.

I suspect unfortunately in the end the 02s may not be for me without investing a bunch more (maybe even still?), and long as I'm pulled between electros and dynas that won't happen soon.

I used 'polite' describing the signature as that's my issue with them. They don't sound wrong so much as asleep. And we're talking mostly bluegrass, folk, etc., not rock, electronica, etc. It really does sound like a HD600 underpowered. You crank the volume past comfortable listening levels to try to bring them alive. Not good and you never really hit your target anyway. There's plenty I like about the 007s sound (not least of which is the etchiness disappearance in comparison with the Lambda Pros), but it just doesn't seem suited for much music on my rig.

I did some listening with the Extreme as a pre-amp, both before posting and a bunch since this holiday weekend. It certainly has an affect on the sound, but maybe not surprising, more to increase volume and a little to 'fill in', than to 'bring alive'. This was with a few tube options. Overall the sound still sounds a bit 'compressed', midrange distant and the dynamic range doesn't reach nearly what I suspect the phones are capable of.

It's tempting to say there's bad synergy between the 007t and 007, but they were sold together, some seem to like them, and a lot of music sounds great with them. Even the much criticized amp portion of the baby Orpheus performs better overall better in my trials as a package.

Again I know there are plenty of 007 fans. I've tried and trying (maybe like no phone in a few years) to like them, but they may not be in the cards. Maybe I'll retreat to 4070s or Signatures, if not hold at the Pros.

Thanks again for the advice. If anyone has any other please speak up, but I'm running out of magic options. Tube rolling the 007t?

EDIT: I've been running the Lavry at maximum (56) which is much higher than I or anyone I've know runs it. It's better for sure. Still too polite, but I'll try to adjust over the course of the week and see.

 

[facelvega]

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Originally Posted by smeggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I still haven't heard a Sigma. Never even seen one in the flesh. As to buying one, not at current prices.

Yes, the Sigma isn't such a jump up from an SR-Lambda, certainly not worth it when price is a factor. The major differences are soundstage and musicality, and of course here as elsewhere one man's musicality is another man's lack of precision. The Lambda preserves much of the Sigma's goodness in a far simpler housing, while contributing its own unmistakable character. It's clear that Stax decided the Lambda was the way forward, and the Sigma only a stepping stone, a way to think outside the box (or into a speaker box?) to reach new solutions.

But this is what is so appealing about the Sigma: it's the real deal, the pure version of a step forward. The front-mounted drivers are crazy, turning all preconceptions about the need for small earcup volume on their head. And it's remarkable how well the experiment works; it's a great sound.

Can anyone tell me, though, whether the Lambda was already on the books when the Sigma appeared? In other words, were those drivers developed for the Sigma housing or with the Lambda also already in mind?

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Originally Posted by webbie64 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you're going to put in that sort of effort use 404 drivers and make a Sigma-404 variant.

I've heard this speculation before, but do we know that it really works any better than the original? There's such a nice synergy between the housing and driver, I'd be afraid of losing that pleasing sound. But hey, I don't even have a Sigma myself.

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Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif Admittedy it looks like crap.

I like the appearance, at least off the head. It's clearly a more expensive and nicer housing than the Lambda. Does it look ridiculous on? Yes, but only a little more ridiculous than other headphones we wear all the time.

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Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif Long ago I suggested that Stax admit that AKG had a good idea with the K1000 and make an improved Lambda derivative with adjustable driver angle.

It's maddening that with all the driver redesigns, that the housing has never been improved. But why an adjustable angle? Wouldn't potential resonance issues outweigh the advantages? At most, I could see the justification for a two-position design, one near-flat, one quite indirect.

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Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif I confess, I've long suspected that Jurg Jecklin had something to do with the design of the Sigma.

Really? It looks so different from the way his mind usually turned, both in massing and the choice of many small parts when he was a fan of a unibody frame. Also, he never seems to have gone with the fully-indirect idea (unless you count the Jecklin disc), so the Stax almost out-Jecklin Jecklin.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega But this is what is so appealing about the Sigma: it's the real deal, the pure version of a step forward. The front-mounted drivers are crazy, turning all preconceptions about the need for small earcup volume on their head. And it's remarkable how well the experiment works; it's a great sound.

I've never heard a Sigma, but going strictly by the comparisons and descriptions, I get a general sense of extreme mellowness-- rolled-off (tilted?) treble, floppy bass. But that's just the SQ. Spatially I'm fully prepared to believe that they're something special, and I'd love to try a binaural recording on them. Mr. (Dr.?) Hayashi was obviously wanting to close the gap between the best things about speakers and the best things about headphones, and the Sigma was a worthy attempt. Very expensive, small market, definitely not for everybody.

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega Can anyone tell me, though, whether the Lambda was already on the books when the Sigma appeared? In other words, were those drivers developed for the Sigma housing or with the Lambda also already in mind?

I don't know, but while we're waiting for the Staxperts to show up, I'm gonna guess they were made for the Sigma, because you'd need a big diaphragm to keep the ear in the nearfield with that spacing. But it's also the logical next step for Stax: from the SR-X Mk 2 to the Mk 3 there's a small but significant jump in diaphragm size. The only way to go is bigger.

The AKG K1000 is a better idea in one way: the position of the driver is user-adjustable. If only there was a way to adjust both sides together.

Both ideas run the risk, if taken to the logical extreme, of making the headphones too big/bulky/heavy to be considered headphones any more.


Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega It's maddening that with all the driver redesigns, that the housing has never been improved. But why an adjustable angle? Wouldn't potential resonance issues outweigh the advantages? At most, I could see the justification for a two-position design, one near-flat, one quite indirect.

How about two click stops for your positions (0 and 90 degrees), but the ability to place the drivers at any angle in between, especially if you could force both sides to move in sync.


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Originally Posted by facelvega Stax almost out-Jecklin Jecklin.

That's the aspect I was going for, albeit in only a tongue-in-cheeky way. It's wild, it's wacky, and most important, it sacrifices raw SQ for a philosophical ideal. That's the similarity.

 

[wualta]

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Originally Posted by edstrelow One could argue that virtually every headphone gets it wrong by because by giving a direct feed to the eardrum it recreates the effect of a sound off to the side.

Excellent point. This leads us directly to the elephant in the room problem of nearly all commercial recordings being recorded for speakers, so that when fed from the side instead of the front they sound trapped inside the skull or just outside the skull, crawling around on your face. Eww.

 

[audiod]

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Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can anyone tell me, though, whether the Lambda was already on the books when the Sigma appeared? In other words, were those drivers developed for the Sigma housing or with the Lambda also already in mind?

The Sigma came first. My old "High End" audio store was a huge Stax dealer. The Sigma was not a big success, nearly a third of my sales were returned. Most of my customers were upgrading from a SR-XIII. Stax scrambled to get the SR-Lambda out using the same driver. The SR-Lambda was a huge success.

 

[spritzer]

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Originally Posted by audiod /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Sigma came first. My old "High End" audio store was a huge Stax dealer. The Sigma was not a big success, nearly a third of my sales were returned. Most of my customers were upgrading from a SR-XIII. Stax scrambled to get the SR-Lambda out using the same driver. The SR-Lambda was a huge success.

That's correct. What Stax needed was a replacement for the SR-XMk3 and the Lambda filled that role. A pre 1979 Sigma is also a bit different then the later models, cloth covered cable and the different bottom plates to go with them. The drivers also had different terminals for the press on connectors Stax used back in the day.

 

[bjarnetv]

speaking of sigmas and k1000s; didnt sony release their own "k1000" recently? has anyone ever tried it, or heard of anyone trying it?

 

[luvdunhill]

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Originally Posted by blessingx /img/forum/go_quote.gif Basically getting a normal bias jack (or second amp) and a loop/preamp (or second source). That moves both amps past a smallish $500 bump.

geez, I'm in the wrong line of work

 

[Faust2D]

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Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, the Sigma isn't such a jump up from an SR-Lambda, certainly not worth it when price is a factor.

To me it is and it's well worth the money

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Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've never heard a Sigma, but going strictly by the comparisons and descriptions, I get a general sense of extreme mellowness-- rolled-off (tilted?) treble, floppy bass. But that's just the SQ. Spatially I'm fully prepared to believe that they're something special, and I'd love to try a binaural recording on them. Mr. (Dr.?) Hayashi was obviously wanting to close the gap between the best things about speakers and the best things about headphones, and the Sigma was a worthy attempt. Very expensive, small market, definitely not for everybody.

No, the Sigma is not extremely mellow, nor is rolled-off. Treble is a bit rolled-off but the bass is actually better than SR-Lambda. It does not go very deep but it has impact and it extends all the way to about 25hz without any problems. Because of the mid-bass spike it feels better more natural, although not as snappy and tight. Binaural recordings are nothing special on Sigma, but regular recordings designed for speakers sound the way they were intended to sound on speakers. I feel that SR-sigma is the best headphone I was, clearly superior to SR-Lambda, SR-303 and ESP950 and in my book not even comparable to SR-X, SR-Gamma and SR-3 clones.

Yeah, I am biased as I am a soundstage freak

 

[smeggy]

I've never found soundstage very convincing on any headphones, not even my fabled K1000s so it winds up being of little or no significance to me. Headphones just can't pull it off when recordings are made for speakers and/or have extreme channel separation which is still very common even today. Some can do it quite well 'for a headphone' but that's not saying much and binaural recordings aren't exactly common.

I'm going to try some makeshift Sigma-style phones and see how I like them and go from there. Should be interesting if nothing else

 

[audiod]

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Originally Posted by smeggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've never found soundstage very convincing on any headphones, not even my fabled K1000s so it winds up being of little or no significance to me. Headphones just can't pull it off when recordings are made for speakers and/or have extreme channel separation which is still very common even today. Some can do it quite well 'for a headphone' but that's not saying much and binaural recordings aren't exactly common.

I feel the same way. To me headphone listening brings me closer to the emotion of the music. I hear purity that no speaker can deliver (and I have full range stats). If I want to have a performance in front of me (like in real life) I listen to my speakers. Headphones can retrieve ambiance and spatial cues but it is mixed up around your head. I agree that binaural recordings are a different story.

 

[edstrelow]

I find the Sigma soundstage/perspective is very convincing with some kinds of music. I was recently at a performance of Verdi's Otello in Los Angeles and on coming home wondered how my Sigmas would perform with my old Decca recording. The sense of forward projection with the phones really did bring back the sense of the opera hall.

 

[Faust2D]

What I can not get with headphones is not as much the soundstage but more the acoustic pressure (bass especially) and the room interaction that I get with speakers. The soundstage is also a big problem for all headphones, but Sigma pulls it off better than anything else I have. Ultimately no headphone I heard can compete with my relatively cheap Apogee speakers and even less so with my S.A.P Trio system, but I can get close enough to make my evening listing enjoyable and Stax does the best job of them all so far

 

[smeggy]

The modded Lambdas do a decent job of pushing sounds to the front, much better than standard. With most headphones the sound has a tendency to come from the sides, middle and also the rear more than the front, I guess it's partly having the sound going directly into the ear from the sides with nothing to give real spatial cues which is where the Sigma and K1000 have the advantage. There's a lot to be said for reflected sound.

It's odd how so many people say their phones give a great soundstage when in my experience most phones really suck at it.

Anyway, with this in mind I did some quick hacking to test the Gamma-Sigma thingy theory and I've deduced they're going to look just as dumb as real Sigmas but in a different way. No idea if they'll sound good or suck ass but what the hell.

 

[Rob N]

Sorry if this has already been dicusssed but in the UK you can get an 'SE' version of the 007tII 'with super high spec valves, valve cooler/dampers and extremely careful set-up'.

Has anyone heard this?