[Chank]

Quote:

The "refreshing" part was from me personally, as a big modification community usually means there are dedicated people that want to see  the well-being of our product, such as the Russian user who patched the AK100 firmware with the AK120's. Yes, it is unfortunate that the community has responded quickly to the wants and needs of the users before us as the manufacturer got to it.

 
With all the mod-ing and the appearance of this user-patch, it just tells us that iRiver does not fully understand this market space.
 
Obviously you can take it how you like, but it shouldn't be "refreshing" that the community has to take it upon itself to modify the default device. That means that while it has potential, it's lacking in such a way that a frustrated end user had to take it upon themselves to "fix" it. The AK1** is a premium device and has a premium cost and should reflect that in it's quality and ability to live up to end user expectations. If iRiver continues to garnish a reputation of releasing a sub standard product where users have to wait/do-it-themselves but still pay such a high price for it, then it's very likely they won't continue to operate in this space for very long.
 
Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us. We're definitely not looking to be fooled again in the future.

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

Quote:

 
With all the mod-ing and the appearance of this user-patch, it just tells us that iRiver does not fully understand this market space.
 
Obviously you can take it how you like, but it shouldn't be "refreshing" that the community has to take it upon itself to modify the default device. That means that while it has potential, it's lacking in such a way that a frustrated end user had to take it upon themselves to "fix" it. The AK1** is a premium device and has a premium cost and should reflect that in it's quality and ability to live up to end user expectations. If iRiver continues to garnish a reputation of releasing a sub standard product where users have to wait/do-it-themselves but still pay such a high price for it, then it's very likely they won't continue to operate in this space for very long.
 
Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us. We're definitely not looking to be fooled again in the future.

 
To play devil's advocate:
 
I give you the Fostex T50RP.
 
The community here took it upon itself to "unlock" its potential, as a headphone.  And is was done with a bang.  It has spawned 3 cottage industry businesses, which got the attention of Fostex.   And Voila!!!  Fostex releases the TH900, then the TH600.  I'm not saying Fostex copied the community, but I'd argue that the community inspired the manufacturer, to raise it's own bar.
 
Now with that said, should the community buy a product for what its worth, or its potential?  I'm waiting on this AK100 to see.  If they don't give what I want, I won't buy.  Its real close for me, but not yet.....

 

[burtomr]

Quote:

+1000000000000000
And I believe there is more headfiers who support Mimouille!

 
2X

 

[AnakChan]

Guys, isn't the point already clear enough? How does badgering the communicator or the company going to make things better?

If you're not an AK1x0 owner well there is no loss to you. If you are, badgering isn't going to smooth the product/service owner & customer relationship. And in all honesty if I were in that kind of business, I'd rather work with a customer who is willing to partner up to improve the overall product; & less inclined to work with customers who badger me.

See Figgie & his contribution to iBasso as an example.

 

[Chank]

Quote:

How does badgering the communicator or the company going to make things better?

 
Nobody is trying to badger the messenger. We're just communicating that we don't see eye to eye with his response, be it official or not. Some of us like to be more direct in our thoughts. Squeaky wheel gets the oil. If everybody came across with sugar and spice it could be mis-construed as complacency and I for one don't want to be mis-interpreted in that regard. If a company comes out with something and it is good, then they get all the praise. They deserve it. However, if there are blatant issues that need to be fixed and the company is taking a lackadaisical attitude about it, then they deserve what they get there as well.
 
Also, I don't see anyone taking direct aim at JMoon, personally either. As far as partnering up, I'm sure if iRiver showed us they were more willing to make the changes (and some of them are quite easy to implement) some of us would be more inclined to sit back. And if you talk about the "alac codec" business, I am going to stop you right there and say that they likely added it because it was pointed out a lot of people use iTunes and thus likely have lots of alac/mp4 and probably don't want to re-encode it all and thus it would be a very huge block in gaining new sales. I mean, if they're only going to get something out only because it means new sales, not because it placates the needs/wants of existing users...
 
Why don't they just open source software less the licensed/proprietary components. I'm sure lots of people would love to help improve it, including myself. Set up a github account and accept pull requests. 
 
Release early, release often.
 
Quote:

 
To play devil's advocate:
 
I give you the Fostex T50RP.
 
The community here took it upon itself to "unlock" its potential, as a headphone.  And is was done with a bang.  It has spawned 3 cottage industry businesses, which got the attention of Fostex.   And Voila!!!  Fostex releases the TH900, then the TH600.  I'm not saying Fostex copied the community, but I'd argue that the community inspired the manufacturer, to raise it's own bar.
 
Now with that said, should the community buy a product for what its worth, or its potential?  I'm waiting on this AK100 to see.  If they don't give what I want, I won't buy.  Its real close for me, but not yet.....

 
The T50RP never cost $700. It's a matter of cost to expectations. If the AK1** cost significantly less, there likely wouldn't be this much fuss over it and it might even take the same route. However, because of the cost, this is apples and oranges.

 

[spkrs01]

Quote:

Guys, isn't the point already clear enough? How does badgering the communicator or the company going to make things better?

If you're not an AK1x0 owner well there is no loss to you. If you are, badgering isn't going to smooth the product/service owner & customer relationship. And in all honesty if I were in that kind of business, I'd rather work with a customer who is willing to partner up to improve the overall product; & less inclined to work with customers who badger me.

See Figgie & his contribution to iBasso as an example.

 
+1 
 
Don't shoot the messenger..........

 

[kkcc]

Quote:

 
+1 
 
Don't shoot the messenger..........

 
Lol while I feel bad for JMoon being put in a really bad position, I suppose this comes with the territory with him a "spokeperson" for iriver and I'm sure the no-nonsense feedback would benefit both JMoon personally in handling future communications, as well as iriver as a product developer.  Plus the responses are even half bad if you compared to what Feng had been getting on chinese forums for the 901 issues and delays....

 

[lee730]

Quote:

 
Lol while I feel bad for JMoon being put in a really bad position, I suppose this comes with the territory with him a "spokeperson" for iriver and I'm sure the no-nonsense feedback would benefit both JMoon personally in handling future communications, as well as iriver as a product developer.  Plus the responses are even half bad if you compared to what Feng had been getting on chinese forums for the 901 issues and delays....

I totally agree. It seems iRiver is much more interested in feedback than they have in the past and if that manages to benefit the AK lines then everyone wins.

 

[Baele]

Quote:

Guys, isn't the point already clear enough? How does badgering the communicator or the company going to make things better?

If you're not an AK1x0 owner well there is no loss to you. If you are, badgering isn't going to smooth the product/service owner & customer relationship. And in all honesty if I were in that kind of business, I'd rather work with a customer who is willing to partner up to improve the overall product; & less inclined to work with customers who badger me.

See Figgie & his contribution to iBasso as an example.

 
AnakChan,
 
actually I'm the owner of AK100 and waiting for AK120 to be delivered. 
And would really expect much better support from iRiver team than promises only. 
It's shame on 'em. That's it!

 

[Currawong]

ButtUglyJeff: Fostex are a bad example. Their headphones have more to do with Denon going their own way. 
 
Everyone else: I think the problem is that we are spoiled by the likes of people such as Val from V-MODA and Michael from Centrance who, being the company owners can very directly respond to us and tell us directly what is going on with products. I'm guessing the staff from iRiver that are here aren't in that position and they may be restricted in what they can say. That means they are undergoing a kind of social media trial-by-fire here. What we really want is direct answers from the person or people writing the software. However, if there are a couple of departments (or a country and language) and managers in between them and that team, that is not likely to happen. 

 

[Saraguie]

Deleted by me.....

 

[AnakChan]

AnakChan,

actually I'm the owner of AK100 and waiting for AK120 to be delivered. 
And would really expect much better support from iRiver team than promises only. 
It's shame on 'em. That's it!

[Badger Mode On]
What a stupid move! If they're so incompetent & you recognize it, why in the world would you buy another iRiver product!? Dump it and just move along!
[Badger Mode Off]


[Partnership Mode On]
Sorry, please help me understand where you're coming from a little more. It seems you're dissatisfied with their service however you have ordered another of their product?
[Partnership Mode Off]


[Sugar-Coat/Idiot Mode On]
Howzzit going!? Lol!! Really!? You ordered the AK120!? Good on ya' mate!! But I thought U didn't like 'em? lol!! >:-D!!
[Sugar-Coat/Idiot Mode Off]

I don't know about you but I have enough other stresses in life to worry about. For a hobby like this, partnership mode works good enough for me.

 

[Baele]

AnakChan,
 
I don't know what mental problems and stresses do you have in your life but for sure it ain't your businnes what I'm doing with my cash.
And if I spend money for anything than I expect great CS from supplier.
 
EOT. 

 

[Loquah]

Hi all, there are some valid perspectives on both sides here, but I feel it's important that we consider a couple of points:
 

1. The Russian FW, while wonderful and appreciated, is buggy and unstable on the AK100. It's not as though someone has provided a perfect solution and the bugs in the Russian FW could easily account for the "delay" in iRiver producing a genuine FW solution - better that they introduce a stable and enjoyable solution than rush something which creates more grief
2. There is a big difference between a large organisation and an individual hobbyist - small organisations and individuals have the ability to be flexible, to change their focus on a whim. Larger companies do not have this pleasure as they have overheads to meet, staff to pay, strategies in place, etc. What some of us are perceiving as iRiver ignoring customers or treating them as idiots may just be a case of the inherent delays in changing course as a larger organisation. There may be priorities that iRiver had already defined prior to the waves of feedback they received from all of us. We need to allow some time for them to change course and integrate our feedback with their existing strategies and plans. This doesn't mean they're trying to fleece us all.
3. We don't know what other aspects they are trying to address in the next FW. It's quite possible that they are trying to deliver us a FW which addresses boot-up speed, gapless, m3u support, better library management, and anything else we've asked about - I don't know, but that's kind of the point - we are all making assumptions with the only evidence being delays for which there are literally hundreds of possible explanations
4. The cost of the AK1x0 has been mentioned a couple of times in terms of the cost of individual parts. I think that's missing the point - iRiver must also arrange marketing, logistics, parts availability, warranty costs, service support, technical support, life cycle planning, initial design, subsequent SW / FW design, etc. There is a lot involved in production of a high performance product with consistent quality, reliability and support (i.e. stock availability, service providers for warranty, etc.)

 
I apologise for getting on my soapbox here and I have no affiliation with any companies involved with the Head-Fi industry. I just feel that sometimes we're not being fair and reasonable to the people like JMoon and others who are working hard behind the scenes and trying their best to support us and help us enjoy great sound. Unfortunately they are sometimes operating in systems (i.e. the world of mid-large business) which don't allow the levels of responsiveness that we'd obviously love.
 
I for one am very grateful for JMoon's ongoing input and communication, and I feel like iRiver are hearing us and doing their best to accomodate our requests. Time will tell, but to me the signs point to a company that does want it's community of customers to be happy and satisfied.

 

[toads]

Quote:

[Badger Mode On]
What a stupid move! If they're so incompetent & you recognize it, why in the world would you buy another iRiver product!? Dump it and just move along!
[Badger Mode Off]


[Partnership Mode On]
Sorry, please help me understand where you're coming from a little more. It seems you're dissatisfied with their service however you have ordered another of their product?
[Partnership Mode Off]


[Sugar-Coat/Idiot Mode On]
Howzzit going!? Lol!! Really!? You ordered the AK120!? Good on ya' mate!! But I thought U didn't like 'em? lol!! >:-D!!
[Sugar-Coat/Idiot Mode Off]

I don't know about you but I have enough other stresses in life to worry about. For a hobby like this, partnership mode works good enough for me.

 
 
how could you possibly defend iRiver's corporate behavior....?....they got caught, it is despicable, they deserve every bit of criticism and IMO they should be run off the board....this moon guy is just some marketing stiff...
 
this place get more deluded with every passing day...