The discovery thread!

[Redcarmoose]

 

[caryking]

Preferences in sound and hearing different sounds with a set of IEM that are of course different (which is what you seem to be referring to) is an entirely different conversation to believing one can genuinely hear sonic differences with every digital source device, sound app, streaming service, digital cable, analog cable, plug, DAC, amplifier and pretty much everything in the audio chain as many folks believe, even those well on the wrong side of 50 and even 60 with hearing that is probably only picking up maybe 2/3 that of the maximum human range, some probably barely 1/2.

I am not questioning anyone's preferences or description in sound of a set of IEM, only the validity of hearing differences with all the other stuff.

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Edit to add - just something that might put some perspective on this whole hearing differences with different equipment, NOT IEM or HEADPHONES and NOT PREFERENCES.

In the audio world there are folks that believe that all manner of things improve or at least change sound, improvement being subjective of course.

Some folks think a cable makes a difference, somebody thinks an amplifier, somebody else thinks that a digital cable makes a difference, somebody else thinks that the source of the digital data makes a difference. Extend that a bit further and there are sections of Head Fi where people talk about a small fuse inside a device changing sound, some believe that changing the direction of that fuse changes sound, some believe that sitting crystals on devices change sound and at least one chap believes that conditioning the crystals in the sun changes their affect on sound.

I am sure that the list goes on and on and I am equally sure that not everyone reading this comment believes that ALL those things will affect sound. If anybody agrees that somewhere along that list the sonic change perceived is due to some psychological influence and not actually from direct technical changes you are accepting that psychology is a factor. From there the question is where in the list of things that maybe influence sound do you accept as reasonable and what do you accept as nonsense born of perception, bias, placebo, whatever you want to call it.

My personal experience is that point is more often than not nearer to the left end of the list than the right.

I sat at a friends house and he played several songs, from both Tidal and Quboz. Each time, I selected Quboz as the preference I had. Basically, he was comparing MQA vs Quboz and he wanted to see if I could pick the same service. Well, my 59 year old ears could. Hell, I hear a difference by using cable lifters in my 2-channel system.

Now, I have said many times… if what I’m hearing is a psychoacoustic or placebo, or whatever… I really don’t care! It’s my money and I’ll spend it how I feel appropriate.

 

[BS5711]

I sat at a friends house and he played several songs, from both Tidal and Quboz. Each time, I selected Quboz as the preference I had. Basically, he was comparing MQA vs Quboz and he wanted to see if I could pick the same service. Well, my 59 year old ears could. Hell, I hear a difference by using cable lifters in my 2-channel system.

Now, I have said many times… if what I’m hearing is a psychoacoustic or placebo, or whatever… I really don’t care! It’s my money and I’ll spend it how I feel appropriate.

There is a technical difference between Qobuz FLAC and MQA from Tidal and it might be that it was a difference that you picked up. If it was a blind test that was probably very good perception on your part, if you knew what you were listening to you may have been influenced by that. That isn't a criticism it is just a statement of fact.

It could possibly even be that the same master was not being used by each service, not implying that would have to be the case but it is a possibility worth mentioning.

If you can hear a difference with cable lifters in a comparison where you don't know which situation you were listening to and did that often enough to be statistically meaningful (like at least 8/10 or better 18/20) then that is a very solid data point for you such that it would be worth deeper assessment because logically that is rather exceptional. If it was a sighted comparison you were open to psychological influence, there is simply no arguing that, it is a statement of fact not an opinion.

You are more than welcome to spend money based on effects that are psychological only, I do that with nice cables also, they make my listening experience more enjoyable because they give me some pride of ownership, nothing more.

We are all wired differently and if you are happy buying, for example, a new amplifier and enjoy a new sound despite that you acknowledge it might be only in your imagination that is fine by me, no argument at all.

I don't want to do that, I prefer to understand what is actually making a technical real difference as best I reasonably can, and that is as valid a position as yours. If I want to base buying decisions on technical understanding rather than feel good factors I don't see any reason for anybody to object to that.

 

[caryking]

There is a technical difference between Qobuz FLAC and MQA from Tidal and it might be that it was a difference that you picked up. If it was a blind test that was probably very good perception on your part, if you knew what you were listening to you may have been influenced by that. That isn't a criticism it is just a statement of fact.

It could possibly even be that the same master was not being used by each service, not implying that would have to be the case but it is a possibility worth mentioning.

If you can hear a difference with cable lifters in a comparison where you don't know which situation you were listening to and did that often enough to be statistically meaningful (like at least 8/10 or better 18/20) then that is a very solid data point for you such that it would be worth deeper assessment because logically that is rather exceptional. If it was a sighted comparison you were open to psychological influence, there is simply no arguing that, it is a statement of fact not an opinion.

You are more than welcome to spend money based on effects that are psychological only, I do that with nice cables also, they make my listening experience more enjoyable because they give me some pride of ownership, nothing more.

We are all wired differently and if you are happy buying, for example, a new amplifier and enjoy a new sound despite that you acknowledge it might be only in your imagination that is fine by me, no argument at all.

I don't want to do that, I prefer to understand what is actually making a technical real difference as best I reasonably can, and that is as valid a position as yours. If I want to base buying decisions on technical understanding rather than feel good factors I don't see any reason for anybody to object to that.

Well, I wasn’t blindfolded; however, I wasn’t controlling the selections. So, my friend had created his own opinion, when he wasn’t blindfolded; and, he did the a/b comparison for me, and I told him which one was Quboz and Tidal, on every example. Best of my memory, he did like 7 or 8 songs (same song) in the comparison. I think that’s a reasonable test case.

Regarding cable lifters, it may very well be some type of bias…. I don’t know! That said, I like what I hear so, I’m all for it. Additionally, I have IsoAcoustics Puck Minis under my headphone amp. I also have their larger isolation products under other equipment. I’ll be more than happy for someone to do a blind test on them, in my setup. I feel confident I will pick accordingly each time.

BTW, I have no issue with you wanting to understand the technical prowess of certain things. I do that as well; however, I’m not completely dependent on scientific understanding for everything in my life…

At the end of the day, this hobby is for enjoyment and I really enjoy it. Now, check this out…

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Well, I wasn’t blindfolded; however, I wasn’t controlling the selections. So, my friend had created his own opinion, when he wasn’t blindfolded; and, he did the a/b comparison for me, and I told him which one was Quboz and Tidal, on every example. Best of my memory, he did like 7 or 8 songs (same song) in the comparison. I think that’s a reasonable test case.

Regarding cable lifters, it may very well be some type of bias…. I don’t know! That said, I like what I hear so, I’m all for it. Additionally, I have IsoAcoustics Puck Minis under my headphone amp. I also have their larger isolation products under other equipment. I’ll be more than happy for someone to do a blind test on them, in my setup. I feel confident I will pick accordingly each time.

BTW, I have no issue with you wanting to understand the technical prowess of certain things. I do that as well; however, I’m not completely dependent on scientific understanding for everything in my life…

At the end of the day, this hobby is for enjoyment and I really enjoy it. Now, check this out…

Btw, cary, will send out that cable tomorrow. Hope it works well for you?

Nice rig!

 

[BS5711]

Well, I wasn’t blindfolded; however, I wasn’t controlling the selections. So, my friend had created his own opinion, when he wasn’t blindfolded; and, he did the a/b comparison for me, and I told him which one was Quboz and Tidal, on every example. Best of my memory, he did like 7 or 8 songs (same song) in the comparison. I think that’s a reasonable test case.

Regarding cable lifters, it may very well be some type of bias…. I don’t know! That said, I like what I hear so, I’m all for it. Additionally, I have IsoAcoustics Puck Minis under my headphone amp. I also have their larger isolation products under other equipment. I’ll be more than happy for someone to do a blind test on them, in my setup. I feel confident I will pick accordingly each time.

BTW, I have no issue with you wanting to understand the technical prowess of certain things. I do that as well; however, I’m not completely dependent on scientific understanding for everything in my life…

At the end of the day, this hobby is for enjoyment and I really enjoy it. Now, check this out…

In the Qobuz vs Tidal thing there was a known difference, lossless FLAC versus lossy compressed MQA. You did well to pick it up for sure but there was something different so despite that you did well to differentiate them it is not entirely surprising. Again, assuming the master was the same of course.

And nor am I completely reliant on scientific understanding in audio or anything else despite what others may infer from a few posts here. I am curious, notice the difference with psychology very obviously, so dug a bit deeper. I am not a spec, chart and graph sniffer and I don't care what measurements say if I enjoy something, I do however want to differentiate genuine sound differences from imagined.

I enjoy the hobby also, apparently with slightly different leanings but aren't differences in us humans what makes the world go around ?

 

[ToneDeafMonk]

Well, I wasn’t blindfolded; however, I wasn’t controlling the selections. So, my friend had created his own opinion, when he wasn’t blindfolded; and, he did the a/b comparison for me, and I told him which one was Quboz and Tidal, on every example. Best of my memory, he did like 7 or 8 songs (same song) in the comparison. I think that’s a reasonable test case.

Regarding cable lifters, it may very well be some type of bias…. I don’t know! That said, I like what I hear so, I’m all for it. Additionally, I have IsoAcoustics Puck Minis under my headphone amp. I also have their larger isolation products under other equipment. I’ll be more than happy for someone to do a blind test on them, in my setup. I feel confident I will pick accordingly each time.

BTW, I have no issue with you wanting to understand the technical prowess of certain things. I do that as well; however, I’m not completely dependent on scientific understanding for everything in my life…

At the end of the day, this hobby is for enjoyment and I really enjoy it. Now, check this out…

I met the Owner / guy who invented that power supply. He is genius with the 220》12V》220 conversion.

Zero snake oil in that one. Wonderful to see you own and use one.

 

[jghjkhfd]

 

[AmenoUzume]

Soratune YI01 for $13.5
Should I do it?

 

[ToneDeafMonk]

Might have to pick this one up.

 

[Ineras]

I would match it up more like this:

10mm bio and 6mm soft? DDs on the Cepheus though, compared to a single 10mm berry DD on the VP-07.

 

[Inserthouse]

Wonder when we will see a Frequency Response Graph. This looks interesting.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Soratune YI01 for $13.5
Should I do it?

Made by Letshuoer. Got good reviews. Supposedly can hang with the Kefine Klean and the Wan'er, and it's a 8+10 dual dynamic. Hmm??

Wonder when we will see a Frequency Response Graph. This looks interesting.

$500 for 3+2. Where have I seen this array before?

My FiiO M21 cleared customs, but in York, Nebraska instead of the hundreds of packages which went through customs previously in Los Angeles. So strange this location, but it cleared customs and no additional charges, so it's slated for arrival on Wednesday (my day off!! Yes!). I miss my JM21, so this new unit will be a welcomed sight.

 

[Thieme]

I might be interested in hearing about M21 VS JM21 comparisons. My JM21 wasn't getting used much as I had it more like a backup unit but a few days back I decided to use it, charged it to 100% listened for an hour or so and put it away. The next day the unit was already turned off and wouldn't charge anymore
Wrote the seller on Ali but haven't got a message back because of the weekend. Not sure how easy/difficult they will make it for me to get a refund but if it works out I might shop for a replacement. Although somehow I am also tempted to just use my phone as source and get the Muse m5 ultra. But that one is a lot more expensive.

 

[Barndoor]

$500 for 3+2. Where have I seen this array before?

Shanling ME600?