The discovery thread!

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Don't tell me what I'm hearing. Perceived, placebo, or Jedi mind trick. No matter how you slice it, when a person makes a sweeping comment about what your think others are hearing, and trying to invalidate it, no matter how subtle you try to make it, it does not come off as subtle, and sometimes comes off as highly....rude?

But that's just me. I don't speak for others. Just how I feel about it.

On another subject, how do you think companies are getting around the tariffs and taxes in regards to review units? I don't see any slow down with the amount of review units getting into the hands of Americans (myself included). I'm wondering if there's a loophole for that? Especially Kiwi Ears and Ziigaat. I see a huge review "dump" with their sets, despite the tariffs. Or maybe I haven't noticed and these sets are not in American hands?

 

[Nimweth]

Listening to this new gem of a discovery on my ZVX Pro, and was enchanted, then switched to my HS80... wow. The ZVX Pro is linear and clean, but thin at times. The HS80 really added the lushness and multi-dimensional stage the ZVX was a bit weak on. The ZVX Pro has a greater emphasis on the upper treble air, and even cleaner bass than the already snappy HS80... but the XINHS Jupiter Rings gem of an IEM is more rich in the lower mids, WITHOUT adding too much warmth, shockingly...

I mean this is hardly a fair comparo: 1DD vs 2DD-6BA... it's still shocking how AMAZING the ZVX Pro is... but the HS80 is just more...surreal and layered which suits this music well. I'd not rank either IEM ahead of the other on this piece... I love the sounds of BOTH...

And then I tried the YuXuanJi. Sounds practically anorexic compared to the ZVX Pro. I mean there's SOME bass... but the focus is clearly more on the airy, stagey treble, even more-so than the ZVX Pro. I keep searching for excuses to cull or keep this "on the fence" IEM... I think the mere existence of the ZVX Pro should send the YXJ packing, but in this rough climate for IEM hobbyists, I'm even more reluctant to cull without major excuses.

Ha ha, I chose that piece a little while ago to demonstrate the AM16's treble performance. There is a post in the Knowledge Zenith thread.

 

[statuefiddle]

Here are some quick impressions after a couple of days with the Letshuoer Mystic 8, a $990 all-BA IEM with 4 Sonion and 4 Knowles drivers in a small titanium shell. These were easy to drive at 18 ohms impedance and 107 dB/mW sensitivity; worked well with my various sources. Thanks to AudioGeek EU for the tour unit!

This set has great vocal clarity - voices have a satisfying bite that makes them engaging. Detail retrieval is good. Bass isn't the focus here, but it is well-balanced with good subbass extension and nice distribution between sub and mid-bass. There's plenty of treble sparkle, and the presentation is somewhat intimate. No big stage effect here, as with Cadenza 12.

Despite the vocal-focus and treble presence, it handled metal tracks surprisingly well (like Death's "Moment of Clarity") without becoming harsh. I gravitated to classic rock tracks like CSNY, Steely Dan, and The Beatles. I could also easily discern the subbass on Nine Inch Nails "Copy of A" and the bass separation was impressive throughout, despite the bass taking a back-seat to the mids and treble.

A complaint here is that vocals can feel slightly thin or lacking body, coming from bassier sets. However, there's notably no sibilance or shout, even on problematic tracks that typically expose these issues in other IEMs (e.g. Adele - I Miss You).

The Mystic 8 should be on your list if you're looking for great vocal clarity and detail with well-controlled bass and treble sparkle, that's easy to drive. The top-notch build, smaller-sized shell, the fact that they're easy to drive are pluses too.

 

[BS5711]

Don't tell me what I'm hearing. Perceived, placebo, or Jedi mind trick. No matter how you slice it, when a person makes a sweeping comment about what your think others are hearing, and trying to invalidate it, no matter how subtle you try to make it, it does not come off as subtle, and sometimes comes off as highly....rude?

I thought we were going to leave this be.

I responded to someone else that made some comments with a reply that I have already given before, no need for you or anybody to have another go, there is nothing new to see here.

However, if you want to believe that your near 60 year old ears are finely tuned auditory receptors and you are not subject to the normal human psychological traits you are more than welcome to despite that it is demonstrably not accurate regardless of how convinced you might be.

My comment was sweeping because I believe that is fundamentally accurate not because I am trying to be critical or rude. It comes across as rude if you take it as a personal criticism not just a general observation which is what it was intended as.

Instead of personally criticising me why not try some blind assessments for yourself and see if what you hear is as definitive as you think it is. Then you would have a place for a solid rebuttal, at the moment you are criticising me because what I said flies in the face of your subjective observations, not because you have solid information that refutes it.

Until such time I don't think there is anything to say that hasn't been said already on either side. I know where you stand with my comments and you know that I won't be changing my mind because you tell me I am wrong so further conversation is fruitless and would be just testing others patience.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

I thought we were going to leave this be.

I responded to someone else that made some comments with a reply that I have already given before, no need for you or anybody to have another go, there is nothing new to see here.

However, if you want to believe that your near 60 year old ears are finely tuned auditory receptors and you are not subject to the normal human psychological traits you are more than welcome to despite that it is demonstrably not accurate regardless of how convinced you might be.

My comment was sweeping because I believe that is fundamentally accurate not because I am trying to be critical or rude. It comes across as rude if you take it as a personal criticism not just a general observation which is what it was intended as.

Instead of personally criticising me why not try some blind assessments for yourself and see if what you hear is as definitive as you think it is. Then you would have a place for a solid rebuttal, at the moment you are criticising me because what I said flies in the face of your subjective observations, not because you have solid information that refutes it.

Until such time I don't think there is anything to say that hasn't been said already on either side. I know where you stand with my comments and you know that I won't be changing my mind because you tell me I am wrong so further conversation is fruitless and would be just testing others patience.

I tagged no one, or made any direct comment. It was an isolated, and untagged post, that was a blanket statement. We'll leave it right there.

 

[XTF1]

On another subject, how do you think companies are getting around the tariffs and taxes in regards to review units?

LOL. That’s should not be difficult to figure out for anyone who understands the audiophile market! Think about the cost structure of any audiophile item, particularly the high-end ones, and you’ll find out…

 

[caryking]

Couldn't tell you. UPOCC isn't as readily available, and Americans are pretty much shut out of listing right now, so can't really see anything, even if we do have one or two, to verify, so in my case, I dunno?

They are all the SAME company, just with different branding, but NICI, Trusted, GY, Zisin, ivipQ, and XINHS are the same manufacturer. Same company. Different branding.

Two things here…

1) Change your location at the top of the webpage and you can see the listing on Aliexpress
2) So, all those brands above are the same company? Are there any other brands, on Aliexpress, that are not related to them, that are good?

 

[Dsnuts]

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/pe...in-ear-monitor-headphones.28158/review/37991/

I remember when I was on vacation. I was listening to these on a longer 3.5 hour bus ride to Busan S. Korea from Won Ju which is a mountainous city about an hour drive south of Seoul Korea. That was when I discovered just how good these things sound. The bus ride was pleasant as it had larger recliner seats with a large window looking out. Just a fantastic way to enjoy the countryside looking out and being immersed in my music. These turned out spectacularly and I got word Effect Audio people had no idea what they were getting into as they have never heard a Penon made IEM. Dealing with Effect Audio folks, those guys are all audiophiles knee deep in the hobby just like you guys. For them to sign off on a sound design, you know it had to be good. These are more than good, it is literally one of the best sounding Penon IEMs to date. The thing immerses the listener with a full bodied musical experience and for that, these are easily worth the money these guys are asking for. I still own IEMs that I spent 1K plus on just a few years back that can't come close to how these sound. It is amazing just how much our hobby has advanced. My overdue take on the Archangel.

 

[BS5711]

I tagged no one, or made any direct comment. It was an isolated, and untagged post, that was a blanket statement. We'll leave it right there.

It seemed like it was related to my comment only two previous.

If it was completely unrelated and simply a random out of the blue statement then me addressing my response to you was unnecessary and I apologise but it makes the general gist of my comments no less accurate.

Every human being is subject to normal human psychological traits that can very convincingly create a perception of changes in sound when technically there is no audible change.

Anybody that definitively states that they know what they hear because essentially their ears don't lie are implying that they are somehow not influenced by human psychological traits and I believe we would all agree that is not possible.

 

[caryking]

Don't tell me what I'm hearing. Perceived, placebo, or Jedi mind trick. No matter how you slice it, when a person makes a sweeping comment about what your think others are hearing, and trying to invalidate it, no matter how subtle you try to make it, it does not come off as subtle, and sometimes comes off as highly....rude?

But that's just me. I don't speak for others. Just how I feel about it.

This whole audio industry is subjective. I respect your hearing, even though you and I may have different preferences. For me, you can provide an analysis of something and I can determine whether it’s something I would want to hear, especially after I learn more about your preferences.

So, if someone starts questioning what you hear, then, I say… they can pound sand!

 

[Carpet]

Thanks! As always, your generosity is truly appreciated, buddy.

Couldn't tell you. UPOCC isn't as readily available, and Americans are pretty much shut out of listing right now, so can't really see anything, even if we do have one or two, to verify, so in my case, I dunno?


They are all the SAME company, just with different branding, but NICI, Trusted, GY, Zisin, ivipQ, and XINHS are the same manufacturer. Same company. Different branding.

I knew about the XINHS/ivipQ association when ivipQ sent a cable in an XINHS case (or vice versa memory isn't as good as it used to be). Didn't know about the others though.

If you want to check on company connections there is a company info section on AliExpress. Chances are if it's the same lawyer and same company address ..

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Two things here…

1) Change your location at the top of the webpage and you can see the listing on Aliexpress
2) So, all those brands above are the same company? Are there any other brands, on Aliexpress, that are not related to them, that are good?

NiceHCK, Tripowin, Effect Audio, Yongse, Hakugei, and Kinera are just a few that come to mind off the top of my head that are not related, that offer varying degrees of affordable cables on Alix.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/pe...in-ear-monitor-headphones.28158/review/37991/

I remember when I was on vacation. I was listening to these on a longer 3.5 hour bus ride to Busan S. Korea from Won Ju which is a mountainous city about an hour drive south of Seoul Korea. That was when I discovered just how good these things sound. The bus ride was pleasant as it had larger recliner seats with a large window looking out. Just a fantastic way to enjoy the countryside looking out and being immersed in my music. These turned out spectacularly and I got word Effect Audio people had no idea what they were getting into as they have never heard a Penon made IEM. Dealing with Effect Audio folks, those guys are all audiophiles knee deep in the hobby just like you guys. For them to sign off on a sound design, you know it had to be good. These are more than good, it is literally one of the best sounding Penon IEMs to date. The thing immerses the listener with a full bodied musical experience and for that, these are easily worth the money these guys are asking for. I still own IEMs that I spent 1K plus on just a few years back that can't come close to how these sound. It is amazing just how much our hobby has advanced. My overdue take on the Archangel.

Agreed! I put these up direcrtly against some heavy hitters in the way above kilobuck range, and boy did this set acquit themselves nicely against those IEMs. This is gatekeeper in it's price range. No getting around it. These are now gatekeepers in their range up to $1,000.

This whole audio industry is subjective. I respect your hearing, even though you and I may have different preferences. For me, you can provide an analysis of something and I can determine whether it’s something I would want to hear, especially after I learn more about your preferences.

So, if someone starts questioning what you hear, then, I say… they can pound sand!

%

It seemed like it was related to my comment only two previous.

If it was completely unrelated and simply a random out of the blue statement then me addressing my response to you was unnecessary and I apologise but it makes the general gist of my comments no less accurate.

Every human being is subject to normal human psychological traits that can very convincingly create a perception of changes in sound when technically there is no audible change.

Anybody that definitively states that they know what they hear because essentially their ears don't lie are implying that they are somehow not influenced by human psychological traits and I believe we would all agree that is not possible.

Correct, because as you know and most here know, I'm not shy about directing my comments directly at someone if I feel it needs to be done. In this case, my post was isolated because it's a statement based on a composite of not just your responses, but others as well, including very recent posts by others, so it's a blanket statement based on a composite, which is why I tagged no one, and make it a standalone comment. It goes for EVERYONE.

 

[BS5711]

This whole audio industry is subjective. I respect your hearing, even though you and I may have different preferences. For me, you can provide an analysis of something and I can determine whether it’s something I would want to hear, especially after I learn more about your preferences.

So, if someone starts questioning what you hear, then, I say… they can pound sand!

Preferences in sound and hearing different sounds with a set of IEM that are of course different (which is what you seem to be referring to) is an entirely different conversation to believing one can genuinely hear sonic differences with every digital source device, sound app, streaming service, digital cable, analog cable, plug, DAC, amplifier and pretty much everything in the audio chain as many folks believe, even those well on the wrong side of 50 and even 60 with hearing that is probably only picking up maybe 2/3 that of the maximum human range, some probably barely 1/2.

I am not questioning anyone's preferences or description in sound of a set of IEM, only the validity of hearing differences with all the other stuff.

---

Edit to add - just something that might put some perspective on this whole hearing differences with different equipment, NOT IEM or HEADPHONES and NOT PREFERENCES.

In the audio world there are folks that believe that all manner of things improve or at least change sound, improvement being subjective of course.

Some folks think a cable makes a difference, somebody thinks an amplifier, somebody else thinks that a digital cable makes a difference, somebody else thinks that the source of the digital data makes a difference. Extend that a bit further and there are sections of Head Fi where people talk about a small fuse inside a device changing sound, some believe that changing the direction of that fuse changes sound, some believe that sitting crystals on devices change sound and at least one chap believes that conditioning the crystals in the sun changes their affect on sound.

I am sure that the list goes on and on and I am equally sure that not everyone reading this comment believes that ALL those things will affect sound. If anybody agrees that somewhere along that list the sonic change perceived is due to some psychological influence and not actually from direct technical changes you are accepting that psychology is a factor. From there the question is where in the list of things that maybe influence sound do you accept as reasonable and what do you accept as nonsense born of perception, bias, placebo, whatever you want to call it.

My personal experience is that point is more often than not nearer to the left end of the list than the right.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

I knew about the XINHS/ivipQ association when ivipQ sent a cable in an XINHS case (or vice versa memory isn't as good as it used to be). Didn't know about the others though.

If you want to check on company connections there is a company info section on AliExpress. Chances are if it's the same lawyer and same company address ..

I only know about the associations because ivipQ issues coupons on their X acct for all those brands, so this makes it an obvious connection, plus a lot of their accents cross over, though they really spend a lot of time with their Trusted and Nici brands. Amazing builds.

 

[Carpet]

This whole audio industry is subjective. I respect your hearing, even though you and I may have different preferences. For me, you can provide an analysis of something and I can determine whether it’s something I would want to hear, especially after I learn more about your preferences.

So, if someone starts questioning what you hear, then, I say… they can pound sand!

Absolutely!

Everything we experience is subjective. Knowing someone's preferences# is applying a filter over their subjective descriptions. The exact same sound can be described positively or negatively by two different people. Neither is wrong, they merely have different frames of reference.

#preference is probably too loose a term. Sensory and neurological differences also apply.