The discovery thread!

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/myer-audio-cklvx-ck2v.27887/
While it doesn't quite have EVERY quality I like to see in IEMs, it's pretty dang amazing. One of the absolute best values in ChiFi ever!
EDIT: yes I just published a review of the CK2V. It’s not as long or detailed or filled with song examples and comparisons as some of the reviews I’ve seen, but I have a LOT of IEMs I should review so I don’t want to take forever on each one haha. Besides, I’m just not always super good at describing the fine nuances of sound.

Oh wow... wow. that would sound amazing... [not sure about the rolled-off sub, but it's still at a nice level so...] Sadly there's almost no way I can get my hands on these yet

Excellent review. Thanks for sharing it. Appreciate it.

---

Before my jazz obsession that started in late 2023, I was a devout and equally as obsessed METAL HEAD. Since 1980 (before that I was a disco kid. Sorry. lol). So my playlists were 95% metal, hard rock, and grunge (harder alternative). So I was always rating my IEMs and headphones by how well they played back my beloved metal music. So here's my top 12 current favorite METAL BOSSES...

Pirole Resin. KZ Libra X.
KZ ZVX Pro. CCA Trio. Tangzu Wu Zetian.
Tanchjim Bunny, Letshuoer DX1, Letshuoer S12 (2024)
Sound Rhyme SP01. ISN EBC80. ISN H60.

Ok, that's only 11. That slot up top is blank for a reason, and it's because we have a brand new entrant into the METAL BOSS top 12 list, and that IEM is...

Juzear x ZEOS Defiant!!

I just got hit over the head with the genre of CHOICE for the Defiant. METAL!! Decided to throw on my metal playlist with the Defiant, and I haven't been able to separate myself from these IEMs. Cemented to my ears. WOW. It's like these were made with metal in mind! They slide right there within the top 12, and rising, along with the CCA Trio, ISN H60, and the SP01 as the cream of the crop very best (btw, yes, the Archangel should also belong, but I haven't done enough metal playlists with it yet).

 

[r31ya]

Paul Wasabi rambles on KZ AM16,
seems he read these thread and immediately points out that its no "budget" variation
this is a bit lower freq focused than Variations's upper freq focus.



Per Paul, KZ having idea of making 16BA iems and then tuned it like Zenith which are to sound thicker, less technical but still there with more volume. More musical than tech show off.
supposedly that style would be easier to reach with all-DD or hybrids.
but KZ being kz...

 

[jghjkhfd]

Oh wow... wow. that would sound amazing... [not sure about the rolled-off sub, but it's still at a nice level so...] Sadly there's almost no way I can get my hands on these yet

I just don't know if I should pull the trigger on them. Will VP-07 be an great Phoenixia sidegrade or not? Maybe Ineras has something to say about it...

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Paul Wasabi rambles on KZ AM16,
seems he read these thread and immediately points out that its no "budget" variation
this is a bit lower freq focused than Variations's upper freq focus.



Per Paul, KZ having idea of making 16BA iems and then tuned it like Zenith which are to sound thicker, less technical but still there with more volume. More musical than tech show off.
supposedly that style would be easier to reach with all-DD or hybrids.

Hey @paulwasabii, did you receive the Lime Ears sets? I forgot to get the tracking number from the glove box! lol

KZ AM16 would be a fun one to add, but not while we live in this trade climate. $45.00 with coupons in any normal world, but $80+ atm. So not worth PTT yet.

I haven't chosen any daily trio's today, thanks to the Defiant hogging all my ear time, but I think tonight I'd gonna dig deep deep into the rotation for stuff that I haven't listened to for months?

My brain is tricking me into loving the Defiant for metal while using the Sony NW-A306 untethered! Dammit!! Why brain?! WHY?!

 

[BS5711]

My brain is tricking me into loving the Defiant for metal while using the Sony NW-A306 untethered! Dammit!! Why brain?! WHY?!

Did you swap to a different source and all of a sudden hated the IEM and music ?

That would be a case of your brain playing tricks on you.

Said tongue firmly in cheek

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

I ended up picking a rather odd Wednesday daily trio! I certainly went deep and picked out the Sennheiser IE800, with my set being 10 years old (almost 11). Haven't listened to these since I got my now sold Sennheiser IE900, so I'm back down 100. Also pulled the TRN ST7. 2DD+5BA set that are still, to this day, one of the best budget IEMs on the market (though they've since been upgraded with the Shell). Been awhile. Lastly, I'm going with a new set that I just haven't been able to give much attention to. The TimeEar Blossom. Gonna throw it and the others on the Cayin Ru6 and give it some r2r love.

 

[jbfps116]

Paul Wasabi rambles on KZ AM16,
seems he read these thread and immediately points out that its no "budget" variation
this is a bit lower freq focused than Variations's upper freq focus.



Per Paul, KZ having idea of making 16BA iems and then tuned it like Zenith which are to sound thicker, less technical but still there with more volume. More musical than tech show off.
supposedly that style would be easier to reach with all-DD or hybrids.
but KZ being kz...

What he said about Zenith and I guess, AM16 where you have to turn up the volume up to hear treble details, makes sense. I try not to listen to my sets at too loud of volume and that’s probably why I like sets like CK2V because they sound detailed at lower volumes.

And from his general description of the AM16, I don’t think I’d be super interested in it.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

What he said about Zenith and I guess, AM16 where you have to turn up the volume up to hear treble details, makes sense. I try not to listen to my sets at too loud of volume and that’s probably why I like sets like CK2V because they sound detailed at lower volumes.

And from his general description of the AM16, I don’t think I’d be super interested in it.

Zenith, Saga, Decet, PRX, and now AM16. Loud listens. Much like the Explorer. The running theme? More meta tuning than v's or u's.

The absurdity of these tariff's in plain sight! Most of these cables were under $100.00 just a few weeks ago, and a couple here, like the MOZI, with the personal coupon, could have been had for about $60? Now look at these jacked prices!! Might as well save your $$$ and buy your cables from Musicteck or Bloom? Cheaper.

 

[kalibri]

The absurdity of these tariff's in plain sight! Most of these cables were under $100.00

They still are. You guys are screwed unfortunately.

 

[r31ya]

What he said about Zenith and I guess, AM16 where you have to turn up the volume up to hear treble details, makes sense. I try not to listen to my sets at too loud of volume and that’s probably why I like sets like CK2V because they sound detailed at lower volumes.

And from his general description of the AM16, I don’t think I’d be super interested in it.

if you hear in lower volume,
i suppose crin tuning would be good option. he also hear in lower volume to preserve his ear health and apparently tuned some of his stuff to be good for low volume listening.

KZ is still (mostly) playing it safe in treble/high freq avoiding their old sibilant complaint.
something which in turn causing it to lose some of the high freq details in low volume.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Crin has obviously sold a lot of Truthear Zeros, Variations, Diokos, and Dusks?! Good for him!! Bring that ching!! $$$$



@r31ya - Exactly. CrinEar Meta would require louder listening due to the meta tuning, but the Daybreak and Reference would be tuned more V and U, so lower volume listening IEMs. The Meta, not so much.

 

[Okcerg]

Zenith, Saga, Decet, PRX, and now AM16. Loud listens. Much like the Explorer. The running theme? More meta tuning than v's or u's.


The absurdity of these tariff's in plain sight! Most of these cables were under $100.00 just a few weeks ago, and a couple here, like the MOZI, with the personal coupon, could have been had for about $60? Now look at these jacked prices!! Might as well save your $$$ and buy your cables from Musicteck or Bloom? Cheaper.

Man, that sucks!! What a circus. Meanwhile in countries with non-orange leaders:

 

[Barndoor]

Man, that sucks!! What a circus. Meanwhile in countries with non-orange leaders:

Well I might as well join the smugness - AU$11.39 is about US$8

 

[Hypops]

And for those that assume I am deaf or have no idea what to listen for, popping in a couple of db bass boost from the Gryphon or flicking on the cross feed from the PA10 stood out like dogs balls in a back and forth comparison. Any slight bass change or staging change for example between devices isn't lost in the test somehow, they are quite obvious if they exist.

I respect that you're committed to doing AB tests. But I wouldn't mistake those tests for objective proof. They're still a subjective judgment IMO.

Spoiler: Expectation bias

The critically important thing you're not controlling for in your AB testing is the impact of negative expectation bias ("I don't believe there will be a difference"). As is well documented, and as I'm sure you're aware, expectation bias cuts both ways equally. There is literally no way to avoid that bias if you are your own test subject. You don't expect a difference so you are much more likely not to hear one. You couldn't even have another person conduct the test on you (the proverbial "wife test") since you'd still know what the test is testing for. Your negative expectation bias would still be firmly in place. There are good reasons scientists don't conduct experiments on themselves.

For your AB test to be scientifically meaningful, you'd have to have at least two different subject groups: one group who are told that there is a difference and another who are told there is no difference. Then you'd have to run controls where each group is asked to compare two things that the experimenters know are audibly identical and then compare things that are known to be audibly different to regularly varying degrees. And then you'd conduct your AB test on each group. Otherwise all you're proving with an AB test is that you believe there is no difference, and your results are simply confirming your own expectation. That's not science. It's just proof that you're as human as the rest of us!

Different sources can sound perceptively different. Some sources sound very similar and can be difficult to distinguish from each other. Transducer sensitivity is obviously a factor as well.

Indeed. Harmonic distortion is real, measurable, and audible. So are things like jitter, crosstalk, etc. Different amps and other gear can sound audibly different. Whether or not those differences are big enough to matter to someone is a different question!

I'm one of those people who can hear differences between gear, but I don't care enough to start collecting amps and DACs. I have different devices for different use cases, not for their sonic differences. Once I reached a "good enough" performance baseline in each of those devices, I stopped shopping.

 

[BS5711]

I respect that you're committed to doing AB tests. But I wouldn't mistake those tests for objective proof. They're still a subjective judgment.

The critically important thing you're not controlling for in your AB testing is the impact of negative expectation bias ("I don't believe there will be a difference"). As is well documented, and as I'm sure you're aware, expectation bias cuts both ways equally. There is literally no way to avoid that bias if you are your own test subject. You don't expect a difference so you are much more likely not to hear one. You couldn't even have another person conduct the test on you (the proverbial "wife test") since you'd still know what the test is testing for. Your negative expectation bias would still be firmly in place. There are good reasons scientists don't conduct experiments on themselves.

For your AB test to be scientifically meaningful, you'd have to have at least two different subject groups: one group who are told that there is a difference and another who are told there is no difference. Then you'd have to run controls where each group is asked to compare two things that the experimenters know are audibly identical and then compare things that are known to be audibly different to regularly varying degrees. And then you'd conduct your AB test on each group. Otherwise all you're proving with an AB test is that you believe there is no difference, and your results are simply confirming your own expectation. That's not science. It's just proof that you're as human as the rest of us!

As I stated with the Clarinet test I actually did expect/hope to hear a difference because I was convinced that there was one based on normal listening.

No my tests are not hugely meaningful in a strict scientific sense and no they are not proof of anything except to me and yes there is something left on the table by way of doubt about possible very subtle nuances that I may have overlooked or simply could not hear. I presented them as my observations nothing more and I am aware of the limitations that you stated.

I did not suggest they were scientifically definitive in anyway way and I said several times that perhaps other folks might perhaps be able to pick up differences in the nuances at least.

However, doing a test within sensible limits of what is appropriate for a schmuck enthusiast at home is better than doing no tests at all and they proved to my satisfaction that if there is any difference that perhaps I might have missed or is beyond my hearing it is at a level that is immaterial to me.

For clarity, sighted comparisons always made me feel like there were differences, just like everybody else talks about, blind comparisons no.

The upshot was simply that I was encouraging others to try such tests because the experience was eye opening and humbling.

Without wanting to sound rude, instead pointing out the pitfalls of my efforts why not shell out $20 and try it for yourself then come back and report your observations ? If enough people actually took an interest in this stuff the hobby as a whole might be a little better informed. You know full well that I am far from alone in my observations, a notable YT channel presenter has the same opinion based on doing the same sort of tests as well as other measurements.

Respectfully ....