The discovery thread!

[o0genesis0o]

Dubjam 2024

First of all thanks to @Scubadevils and @armstrj2 for arranging the second EU Watercooler meet in Dublin, it was an excellent experience. While we are getting together because of our passion for audio and to share and try gear, it is as much about meeting the friends we have talked with over the web. Meeting like-minded people is something special I advise more to join in on, I also vote for central Europe next time like Paris.

Will share notes about the stuff I tried at the meet, only smartphone photos this time Will be short impressions, and as some know trying 20 sets in a day is a tough thing to do. Could have a different experience with some sets at home, having more time to get to know them or find flaws coming over longer sessions.

Empire Ears Triton
Warm and smooth, resolving without being harsh. Maybe a little dark, but tasty bass that's vibrant and fun. Loved the faceplate.

Noble Audio Onyx
Special soundstage, goes more behind and has more spatial cues than the average set. Bass is solid and deep, the sound is a little dark but I really love it. Thick and engaging sound, one of my favourites from the meet. This sits almost like CIEM to me, definitely a set I want to get or try again.

FiR RN6
Solid sound overall, rich. Kinetic bass is good quality, both in slam and rumble. I compared it a little against Origin, Origin is a little similar with a little better balance in the mids and highs. RN6 had maybe a little stronger punch to it. RN6 had cleaner transients. The Midrange lacks some soul for me on RN6, I would probably prefer the XE6. Small shells and ergonomic.

iBasso DC Elite
This is a super clean dongle and is very resolving, but also brighter than my preference(more than my travel DAP dx180). Not a fan of the volume wheel, because of how the steps are but also since I find it hard to turn.

CFA Solaris
Sort of neutral tonality and the top end is sizzling, lacking some fun on the low end. Not vented enough, so comfort is not the best.

Noble Audio Khublai Khan
Notice I love Noble sound, warm but balanced and also very spacious. A better Mest MKIII?
Need more power than your average IEM, really enjoyed this one. Had better sub bass than midbass, but still did a decent job on stuff like kick drums.

CFA Astrolith
The best planar I have heard. Lightning fast sound while also being warm with visceral punch, transients are super clean. The bass is awesome for planar, maybe faster than my preference in decay. Metal master and fast BPM electronica. Quite hot up top, but still within my tolerance using DX180. WM1AM2 is probably perfect with Astrolith.

Elysian Annihilator
What can be said that's not said before, an energetic and very dynamic sound. Excellent bass and clean midrange with good sparkle and splashiness up top. Stage has very good width, among the more technical sets while still being fun. Had high expectations, and felt they were fulfilled.

Subtonic STORM
Balanced sound, excellent instrument separation and soundstage to me is very spacious. Bass is among the best from BA, personally not a BA fan due to low end same goes here as its sort of softer on the bounce. I was a little let down, had too many expectations perhaps.

CFA Trifecta
Sound is warm and thick, not balanced and almost like a veil on some parts. Sound is very spacious and large, not the most technical.
More a specialized set, some music works and others not. Personally I much prefer the Bonneville from CFA, could be I would have liked it more with my Sony.

Aroma Audio Fei Wan
Maybe my faovorite today, I really loved the tuning. Both technical and fun, not too bright but also not lacking. Just very balanced in a good way, maybe my faovorite part being the midrange. And I love the design, I know it's not for everyone but for me

Noble Audio Chronicle
Lovely midrange, warm but balanced overall. Some spice up top to make it interesting without being way too intense, if anything lacks a little upper air. Sounded better by FC6 than DX180, R2R make it a little more pleasant. Awesome shell design.

Noble Audio Sultan
Maybe one of the more intense Noble sets, mids and treble has some extra sizzle on cymbals. My least favorite of the Noble I tried today, but also a very good set being quite technical and built like a tank.

TSMR Shock
This is a fun set, with a good thick sound. Bass is a little soft on the bounce, but still impactful. Mids are forgiving and full, not shouty at all. Treble is a little dark, if turned to max on the dial it gets a little harsh without improving it. So for me 2.5 on treble is best with 2-3 on bass. I would be a little annoyed over the tunable switches as it's an element I don't want in IEMs. Prefer tuning to be what it is without having switches, and this is like switches on steroids.

Nostalgia Audio Camelot
Balanced warm sound, very easy to like without anything striking me as offensive.
Dense rich bass, slightly on the slow side. Midrange is also full and thick, which makes everything sound more full sounding. Maybe not the most open and clear sound, more into musicality than analytical.

Ngaudio Erebus
Such resolving and clean sound, one of the better sets I've tried today. Maybe a little too splashy up top for my liking, but it depends on music and source. The bass is very impactful without being overdone, maybe lacking some sub bass rumble.

UM Maven II
Reminds me a lot of MEST MK3, maybe a little less spacious. But the tonality is warmer to me and a little more musical, love the titanium shell. I prefer this one to MEST MKIII CF, understand the praise.

Kinera Loki
Clean and warm sound, deep and textured bass.
Midrange is full but not as shouty as Verdandi is, treble is also airy and well extended. Also one of the better sets today.

FIIO FA19
Very clean and resolving, maybe a little too splashy up top. Bass is also a little on the soft side lacking impact, still one of the better BA bass IEMs. Overall good, but not something I would personally buy.

Custom Art Fibae7?
Bassy set. Sound is easy to like, shells are also very small and comfortable.

PMG Audio Apx SE
Full and open sound, much nuance. Perhaps the best bass I've heard, midrange was also very clean. Airy and lots of detail up top, love the sparkle.
Was paired with an awesome cable costing even more than the IEM.

Could see it as a little fatiguing over time, but was also one of the last sets I've heard today.

DCA E3
Very long time since I used closed back full size headphones. Awesome fit, with nice padding for good comfort. Sounded way better than closed back planars I've used in the past, not the most technical planar but had a more fun tuning than Hifiman or older DCA models I have tried.

There been many beers and nice food like Irish breakfast, burgers, cake and even Asian. Lucky with the weather on Saturday, had some walks around Dublin as I stayed some away from our meetup.

Almost forgot to have the mandatory Guinness, excuse for breakfast at airport before leaving

Now some coffee while I get back to Norway after an awesome weekend, Letshuoer Cadenza 12 on the flight while writing this, lovely sound and really good isolation.

Thanks guys, I look forward to next time

Wow, such a nice line up. Thanks for sharing!

Can you elaborate a bit more on the “bounce” that you mentioned?

 

[-rowan-]

iBasso DC Elite
This is a super clean dongle and is very resolving, but also brighter than my preference(more than my travel DAP dx180). Not a fan of the volume wheel, because of how the steps are but also since I find it hard to turn.

Accurate - I wouldn’t use it on IEMs that were already too bright. After owning and using it for an extended period I would say it’s detailed but not anywhere as resolving as TOTL DAPs like the one it’s based off or even sub flagship ones. It really is extraordinarily clean and quiet though.

TSMR Shock
This is a fun set, with a good thick sound. Bass is a little soft on the bounce, but still impactful. Mids are forgiving and full, not shouty at all. Treble is a little dark, if turned to max on the dial it gets a little harsh without improving it. So for me 2.5 on treble is best with 2-3 on bass. I would be a little annoyed over the tunable switches as it's an element I don't want in IEMs. Prefer tuning to be what it is without having switches, and this is like switches on steroids.

My default preference as well, though I’ve come to appreciate the flexibility of the Shock. I really like 2.5B2.5T too as it doesn’t mess with the mids quite as much and there’s still enough bass to keep it fun.

PMG Audio Apx SE
Full and open sound, much nuance. Perhaps the best bass I've heard, midrange was also very clean. Airy and lots of detail up top, love the sparkle.
Was paired with an awesome cable costing even more than the IEM.

Could see it as a little fatiguing over time, but was also one of the last sets I've heard today.

Best thing I heard this year. I suppose I should be glad that this is so extravagantly priced as to be out of the question completely.

Thanks @Leonarfd for the report - concise yet covering so much ground.

Reading that report, I'd interpret that as the Shock was like the little brother trying to crash a big boy party. The little brother might have youthful energy and think he fits in, but he really doesn't. Now it might not be fair to compare vs those summit fi legends and up and comers, but the Shock has been touted as an "endgame" IEM, so in a way, it is a fair comparison.

Thank you both of you for these honest impressions. You just made it very easy for me to skip the Shock, after some soul searching, plus @DynamicEars made some comments that also gave me some pause, since his preferences typically align with mine very well to an extent. So with all this info, I'm going to wait for the EBC80 and jump down that rabbit hole.

Yes, mos def wait, particularly as Penon/ISN tuning seems more aligned to your tastes and H60 and Fan 3 have already proven to be a hit with you.

And nah Shock is not endgame, and I don’t think it was ever positioned as a kilobuck killa even. It’s very good at its price point and I can say in all honesty that I still enjoy it very much but needs some refinement that tuning dials alone cannot bring.

Wooow this puts it in perspective. I think the Turbo isn't the smallest set out there(?) and the Shock Dwarfs it. What an absolute unit! Small ears beware.

Turbo is on the small side actually (and very light).

Reposting my Turbo size comparo from back when I first got it.

L to R: Serial, 10th AE, Turbo, Vortex

Shock is very thick but doesn’t have as big a footprint as one might think. Reposting this one as well which I took much more recently. 10th AE happens to be in both of them so at least there’s some common reference point.

I actually like vacuuming and my 3 year old used to follow me around with his toy one and help

I actually think that vacuum cleaner companies should make actual mini fully functioning versions so that these little helpers can make themselves much more useful.

 

[Leonarfd]

Wow, such a nice line up. Thanks for sharing!

Can you elaborate a bit more on the “bounce” that you mentioned?

Hmm how to explain better.
When I listen to sets like Crimson, Storm, Neon Pro, FA19 they have a sort of blunted attack. A reason why I don't like them for stuff like metal with kick drums or even some electronica tracks, and prefer either planar or DD instead.

 

[Syan25]

Before:



Dunu S&S and stock cable.

After:



Coreir Al and Yongse Warrior.

This set is very tip sensitive. These are MS, but I might need to go for S sized Coreirs. Cable made a good change in bass control and treble precision too. Overall I was positively impressed by the improvements which shot the S-EX up into my favourites.

After refuelling my empty stomach and chilling for a bit, I'll do a rapid-fire A/B/C with Explorer & Que.
[/QUOTE

It's like you gave birth to these all by yourself...

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Will come, not me who did the photo.

Did you mean to tag @Scubadevils in your original post? You tagged a Scuba who hasn't posted anything lol

 

[Vonbuddy]

https://penonaudio.com/TANSIO-MIRAI-X-10th-Anniversary-Limited-Edition.html

That is the one I am getting for half the cost of the Shock. With that in mind, is the Shock so different it is worth double the cost?

 

[o0genesis0o]

Hmm how to explain better.
When I listen to sets like Crimson, Storm, Neon Pro, FA19 they have a sort of blunted attack. A reason why I don't like them for stuff like metal with kick drums or even some electronica tracks, and prefer either planar or DD instead.

Interesting maybe we think about different thing when we define the “attack” here since to my ears Crimson and STORM bass has pretty crisp edge with a defined subbass thump. I wouldn’t think of loose or blunt or indecisive to describe how they do transients.

Their bass usually doesn’t hang around and nor having that elastic “boing” sensation of great DD though. I always thought that elasticity is what people like in great DD bass.

 

[Leonarfd]

That is the one I am getting for half the cost of the Shock. With that in mind, is the Shock so different it is worth double the cost?

Need to read comparison from someone else, as I haven't compared them. But it reminded me of it, something about the bass quality and easy to listen to sound.

 

[Vonbuddy]

Dubjam 2024

First of all thanks to @Scubadevils and @armstrj2 for arranging the second EU Watercooler meet in Dublin, it was an excellent experience. While we are getting together because of our passion for audio and to share and try gear, it is as much about meeting the friends we have talked with over the web. Meeting like-minded people is something special I advise more to join in on, I also vote for central Europe next time like Paris.

Will share notes about the stuff I tried at the meet, only smartphone photos this time Will be short impressions, and as some know trying 20 sets in a day is a tough thing to do. Could have a different experience with some sets at home, having more time to get to know them or find flaws coming over longer sessions.

Empire Ears Triton
Warm and smooth, resolving without being harsh. Maybe a little dark, but tasty bass that's vibrant and fun. Loved the faceplate.

Noble Audio Onyx
Special soundstage, goes more behind and has more spatial cues than the average set. Bass is solid and deep, the sound is a little dark but I really love it. Thick and engaging sound, one of my favourites from the meet. This sits almost like CIEM to me, definitely a set I want to get or try again.

FiR RN6
Solid sound overall, rich. Kinetic bass is good quality, both in slam and rumble. I compared it a little against Origin, Origin is a little similar with a little better balance in the mids and highs. RN6 had maybe a little stronger punch to it. RN6 had cleaner transients. The Midrange lacks some soul for me on RN6, I would probably prefer the XE6. Small shells and ergonomic.

iBasso DC Elite
This is a super clean dongle and is very resolving, but also brighter than my preference(more than my travel DAP dx180). Not a fan of the volume wheel, because of how the steps are but also since I find it hard to turn.

CFA Solaris
Sort of neutral tonality and the top end is sizzling, lacking some fun on the low end. Not vented enough, so comfort is not the best.

Noble Audio Khublai Khan
Notice I love Noble sound, warm but balanced and also very spacious. A better Mest MKIII?
Need more power than your average IEM, really enjoyed this one. Had better sub bass than midbass, but still did a decent job on stuff like kick drums.

CFA Astrolith
The best planar I have heard. Lightning fast sound while also being warm with visceral punch, transients are super clean. The bass is awesome for planar, maybe faster than my preference in decay. Metal master and fast BPM electronica. Quite hot up top, but still within my tolerance using DX180. WM1AM2 is probably perfect with Astrolith.

Elysian Annihilator
What can be said that's not said before, an energetic and very dynamic sound. Excellent bass and clean midrange with good sparkle and splashiness up top. Stage has very good width, among the more technical sets while still being fun. Had high expectations, and felt they were fulfilled.

Subtonic STORM
Balanced sound, excellent instrument separation and soundstage to me is very spacious. Bass is among the best from BA, personally not a BA fan due to low end same goes here as its sort of softer on the bounce. I was a little let down, had too many expectations perhaps.

CFA Trifecta
Sound is warm and thick, not balanced and almost like a veil on some parts. Sound is very spacious and large, not the most technical.
More a specialized set, some music works and others not. Personally I much prefer the Bonneville from CFA, could be I would have liked it more with my Sony.

Aroma Audio Fei Wan
Maybe my faovorite today, I really loved the tuning. Both technical and fun, not too bright but also not lacking. Just very balanced in a good way, maybe my faovorite part being the midrange. And I love the design, I know it's not for everyone but for me

Noble Audio Chronicle
Lovely midrange, warm but balanced overall. Some spice up top to make it interesting without being way too intense, if anything lacks a little upper air. Sounded better by FC6 than DX180, R2R make it a little more pleasant. Awesome shell design.

Noble Audio Sultan
Maybe one of the more intense Noble sets, mids and treble has some extra sizzle on cymbals. My least favorite of the Noble I tried today, but also a very good set being quite technical and built like a tank.

TSMR Shock
This is a fun set, with a good thick sound. Bass is a little soft on the bounce, but still impactful. Mids are forgiving and full, not shouty at all. Treble is a little dark, if turned to max on the dial it gets a little harsh without improving it. So for me 2.5 on treble is best with 2-3 on bass. I would be a little annoyed over the tunable switches as it's an element I don't want in IEMs. Prefer tuning to be what it is without having switches, and this is like switches on steroids.

Nostalgia Audio Camelot
Balanced warm sound, very easy to like without anything striking me as offensive.
Dense rich bass, slightly on the slow side. Midrange is also full and thick, which makes everything sound more full sounding. Maybe not the most open and clear sound, more into musicality than analytical.

Ngaudio Erebus
Such resolving and clean sound, one of the better sets I've tried today. Maybe a little too splashy up top for my liking, but it depends on music and source. The bass is very impactful without being overdone, maybe lacking some sub bass rumble.

UM Maven II
Reminds me a lot of MEST MK3, maybe a little less spacious. But the tonality is warmer to me and a little more musical, love the titanium shell. I prefer this one to MEST MKIII CF, understand the praise.

Kinera Loki
Clean and warm sound, deep and textured bass.
Midrange is full but not as shouty as Verdandi is, treble is also airy and well extended. Also one of the better sets today.

FIIO FA19
Very clean and resolving, maybe a little too splashy up top. Bass is also a little on the soft side lacking impact, still one of the better BA bass IEMs. Overall good, but not something I would personally buy.

Custom Art Fibae7?
Bassy set. Sound is easy to like, shells are also very small and comfortable.

PMG Audio Apx SE
Full and open sound, much nuance. Perhaps the best bass I've heard, midrange was also very clean. Airy and lots of detail up top, love the sparkle.
Was paired with an awesome cable costing even more than the IEM.

Could see it as a little fatiguing over time, but was also one of the last sets I've heard today.

DCA E3
Very long time since I used closed back full size headphones. Awesome fit, with nice padding for good comfort. Sounded way better than closed back planars I've used in the past, not the most technical planar but had a more fun tuning than Hifiman or older DCA models I have tried.

There been many beers and nice food like Irish breakfast, burgers, cake and even Asian. Lucky with the weather on Saturday, had some walks around Dublin as I stayed some away from our meetup.

Almost forgot to have the mandatory Guinness, excuse for breakfast at airport before leaving

Now some coffee while I get back to Norway after an awesome weekend, Letshuoer Cadenza 12 on the flight while writing this, lovely sound and really good isolation.

Thanks guys, I look forward to next time

I decided to buy the Ifi Go Bar Kensei because it was more compatible with headphones based on some reviews.

 

[Vonbuddy]

Need to read comparison from someone else, as I haven't compared them. But it reminded me of it, something about the bass quality and easy to listen to sound.

Have you heard the Nautilus from Jomo Audio?

 

[Leonarfd]

Interesting maybe we think about different thing when we define the “attack” here since to my ears Crimson and STORM bass has pretty crisp edge with a defined subbass thump. I wouldn’t think of loose or blunt or indecisive to describe how they do transients.

Their bass usually doesn’t hang around and nor having that elastic “booying” sensation of great DD though. I always thought that elasticity is what people like in great DD bass.

Understand what you mean.
I also prefer DD for sustained notes. But this is something the good BA also can do well now

But it's something about the attack of the bass doesn't hit right to me, been with every set with BA so far. Doesn't mean it's bad, just don't sound real to me. The rebound is still fast and this is more about the impact itself.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

I misunderstood what you were referring to. You mean the now no longer available 10th, not the X.

No. The TSMR X, which has been touted by co-owners as being level with the ISN H60, or redundant, so by that definition, and I know it's not apples to apples, but if the Shock is a slight upgrade to the H60 sonically, and the whole appeal and gimmick is the dial control, then it's off to the EBC80 for me. Now that wasn't really the decider. It was the subtle or more detailed impressions from three people, who were able to describe the tone, technicalities, and the treble details that finally gave me an idea, outside of "these dials are amazing!! You can control the bass and treble to your whim!! These dials are crazy cool, and the BCD stage is out of sight!". I got more direct feel for the bass QUALITY, the effect the dials have on the midrange, how the midrange tone and technicalities align with other IEMs, and the tonality and air of the treble from lower to upper. So thank you again to all the impressions, and yes, off to the EBC80 I go!

 

[jbfps116]

If you can still grab the MT5 for $5, I think you should give it a chance. Imo it can trade blows with Saga Balanced and come out on top. You might prefer its cleaner, punchier mid-bass and more elevated lower/mid treble.

I'd be a little tempted if they actually looked good. Too plain for me! Besides, I've gotten mostly burned with TRN [MT4 Pro was ultimate lack-luster... Conch was excitingly clear in the highs but simply not bassy enough to keep around. ST7 had something about the midrange I didn't like until I found the right cable. At least the Orca is great ]

So you're basically hearing things opposite of what most others hear with switch OFF? The bass does lift, but muddyish, and the treble is very rolled off in OFF position, with a narrower stage, and less details. Man, it never fails to astound me how different our ears here things from person to person. It's such a miracle IEMs like the Shock, H60, S12 (2024) or the Trio got almost universal praise. It really is.

To be fair, I was only testing one pop song... I think you might be right with other genres.

 

[Vonbuddy]

No. The TSMR X, which has been touted by co-owners as being level with the ISN H60, or redundant, so by that definition, and I know it's not apples to apples, but if the Shock is a slight upgrade to the H60 sonically, and the whole appeal and gimmick is the dial control, then it's off to the EBC80 for me. Now that wasn't really the decider. It was the subtle or more detailed impressions from three people, who were able to describe the tone, technicalities, and the treble details that finally gave me an idea, outside of "these dials are amazing!! You can control the bass and treble to your whim!! These dials are crazy cool, and the BCD stage is out of sight!". I got more direct feel for the bass QUALITY, the effect the dials have on the midrange, how the midrange tone and technicalities align with other IEMs, and the tonality and air of the treble from lower to upper. So thank you again to all the impressions, and yes, off to the EBC80 I go!

No price on the new ISN I take it.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Hmm how to explain better.
When I listen to sets like Crimson, Storm, Neon Pro, FA19 they have a sort of blunted attack. A reason why I don't like them for stuff like metal with kick drums or even some electronica tracks, and prefer either planar or DD instead.

Would you mean elasticity coupled with weight? This is how the Saga portrays itself in the low end. There's a snappy elasticity to the mid bass, while having good weight in the sub bass, and when you put them together, they do provide a bit of bounce (as well as resolution, so it's not one noted), though I've heard better, like from the Aure bass.