May 10, 2023 at 10:16 PM Post #78,076 of 151,504
I'm not the best person to be asked about cable, since I'm in the middle between believers and not.
My belief is cable can be choosen between "warm, musical, weighty" copper and "cold, analytical, detailed, crispy" silver signature. More about "pairing" rather than real improvement (there are improvement in high quality material, that have low resistance for example but differences not day and night)
Good looking and does not sound worse than stock are all that I ask from a cable. Surprisingly, it’s not that easy to get. For example, all FiiO cables I have do not work with Andromeda 2020 at all. My XINHS $20 cable reduces the clarity and separation of U12T noticeably. So to me, sound can go down. Getting the ones that does not go down is tricky and unpredictable.
 
May 10, 2023 at 10:18 PM Post #78,077 of 151,504
I'm not the best person to be asked about cable, since I'm in the middle between believers and not.
My belief is cable can be choosen between "warm, musical, weighty" copper and "cold, analytical, detailed, crispy" silver signature. More about "pairing" rather than real improvement (there are improvement in high quality material, that have low resistance for example but differences not day and night)
As someone who involved in processing facility construction,
i know that analog data via copper cable could degrade or getting noise from external factor.
we have to use shielding to ensure that instruments sent proper data to the control panel.

even with shielding distance degradation matters too, so depending on the cable length we might have to switch to digital signal via LAN cable.
and if its even longer (100m+), even digital signal via LAN cable could have issue and we have to use fiber optic cable.

So cable affect signal transmission is real, the issue being how much and what to measure to get a "good" cable.
but yeah, this topic is a land mine, but its kinda interesting and hopefully there are more clearer way to measure
for now i just rely on resistance rating, what accessories/plug use, and how pretty it is.

---

Rikudougoku's database that include cable measurement,

The thread : link
The spreadsheet : link

Credit obviously to Riku
 
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May 10, 2023 at 10:32 PM Post #78,078 of 151,504
Rikudogoku's database that include cable measurement,

The thread : link
The spreadsheet : link

Credit obviously to Riku
Sorry but it's rikudoUgoku! Yeah i'm sorry i can't ignore that haha
 
May 10, 2023 at 10:43 PM Post #78,080 of 151,504
i was thinking something wrong with riku names as i type :D

That's your problem.

"Thinking"​

It can get you in almost as much trouble as not thinking! :ksc75smile:

Edit: that was a cheap attempt to divert the topic before the cable trolls show up and it gets ugly.
 
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May 10, 2023 at 10:47 PM Post #78,081 of 151,504
That's your problem.

"Thinking"​

It can get you in almost as much trouble as not thinking! :ksc75smile:

Edit: that was a cheap attempt to divert the topic before the cable trolls show up and it gets ugly.
Google’ bard has an elegant answer to the question:

2D6CF277-3F3B-4264-AE32-5666EBC9EC63.jpeg


Essentially, “try for yourself and don’t bug others” :beyersmile:
 
May 10, 2023 at 10:58 PM Post #78,082 of 151,504
Google’ bard has an elegant answer to the question:

2D6CF277-3F3B-4264-AE32-5666EBC9EC63.jpeg

Essentially, “try for yourself and don’t bug others” :beyersmile:
aka : spend your money first and regret later
 
May 10, 2023 at 11:38 PM Post #78,085 of 151,504
Cables are one thing, but I’m more interested in dongles at the moment. I’m using this dirt cheap Apple dongle as a DAC out of my xDuoo digital transport and I have to wonder if any other dongle out there could sound different?
 
May 10, 2023 at 11:45 PM Post #78,086 of 151,504
I'm not the best person to be asked about cable, since I'm in the middle between believers and not.
My belief is cable can be choosen between "warm, musical, weighty" copper and "cold, analytical, detailed, crispy" silver signature. More about "pairing" rather than real improvement (there are improvement in high quality material, that have low resistance for example but differences not day and night)
PW Audio’s Peter Wong says “it’s not material of the cable that matters, the structural components that matter to sound”
 
May 10, 2023 at 11:48 PM Post #78,087 of 151,504
Google’ bard has an elegant answer to the question:

2D6CF277-3F3B-4264-AE32-5666EBC9EC63.jpeg

Essentially, “try for yourself and don’t bug others” :beyersmile:


Hahaha even AI is scared of pitchforks from both camps! AI does a wise cop out and refuses to commit on the cable debate -> trust your own ears blah blah.



K but jokes aside, I respect both cable detractors and believers. But consider this, in the entire chain from IEMs (transducer) -> eartip -> cable -> amp -> DAC -> source file, do kilobuck cables make sense in the big scheme of things? I'm not talking about cheap cables but kilobuck ones. I've seen forum peeps saying "This sub $100 IEM with stock cable I will grade as 2/5. But once I put on a $1000 cable, the IEM now sounds 5/5!!" (and the IEM maybe costs sub $100USD, but is paired with a $1000 cable - cart before the horse?).

Considering eartips do make measureable and hearable differences, and they cost a few cents to a few dollars, I think eartips are a way cheaper method to change sound than a kilobuck cable? I've owned some cables up to $300 and tested a few $1000 ones, and TBH, a bad IEM is not gonna be saved by a cable, and personally I would upgrade other areas in the chain first, which are probably cheaper?

Thankfully, there's lots of bang for buck cables at the sub $30 range now, like from NiceHCK, Xinnhs etc. I have a lot of these at home and appreciate them. If consumers buy cheaper cables that measure well on resistance, or with cables that feel very good haptically/asthetically, with zero microphonics/tangling, then those are pretty decent ways to spend money IMHO. However, I have difficulty reconciling buying $1000 cables especially if the IEMs you are using it with are in the budget/midFI bracket.

Regardless, I respect both sides, and if the cable changes the sound for you, then congrats you have another toy in the audio chain to play with. It doesn't change sound for you, then congrats also, you save lots of money. Win Win, we can now go back to our love of music (and gear). On to more discoveries in this thread!!!



Cables are one thing, but I’m more interested in dongles at the moment. I’m using this dirt cheap Apple dongle as a DAC out of my xDuoo digital transport and I have to wonder if any other dongle out there could sound different?

Apple dongle is quite neutral and measures very well. It just lacks power for low sensitivity/high impedance gear. Otherwise it is very very good for sub $10 USD. It is not a matter of jacking the apple dongle to max volume with a planar headphone, just that you lose dynamics, bass is not controlled, perhaps soundstage is worse when the apple dongle fails to feed enough juice to demanding gear.

IMHO, dongles give better price to performance ratio than an equivalently priced DAP in terms of sonics. For example the Questyle M15 ($200 USD) probably can hit midFI DAP ($500 - 1000USD) sound quality. Most budget dongles have actually rendered budget DAPs to be obsolete. You don't need to bring a second device too.

However, dongles have disadvantages in draining the battery of the phone and if you use lots of lossless files, memory space may be an issue too on the phone. Some may want a DAP so as to focus on music and not be distracted on the phone by work and calls, so fair enough too.
 
May 10, 2023 at 11:49 PM Post #78,088 of 151,504
Cables are one thing, but I’m more interested in dongles at the moment. I’m using this dirt cheap Apple dongle as a DAC out of my xDuoo digital transport and I have to wonder if any other dongle out there could sound different?
I did a swap between Apple dongle, Hidizs XO and S9, FiiO KA3, Hidizs AP80 Pro X, Shanling M6U, and VE Megatron acting as DAC into the G5 amp a few weeks ago. All tests were done with U12T and SA6II.

Of course, there are a lot of double amping going on here, so it’s not strictly DAC to DAC compare, but there are some noticeable differences:
  • Soundstage: KA3 is flat and in your face. G5 DAC as well as Megatron are somewhat similar, flattish but not as bad as KA3. AP80 Pro X is wide but shallow. Great depth, with “holographic” feeling to the stage comes with all other options.
  • Clarity and details: Apple dongle is slightly behind all other options.
  • Tonality: noticeable warmth with Shanling, the rest is more or less apple dongle-like. The KA3 and megatron sound slightly edgy at the top.
Imho, DAC is for fine-tuning. Apple dongle is adequate, though I like the sound and stage of the hidizs more.
 
May 10, 2023 at 11:53 PM Post #78,089 of 151,504
I did a swap between Apple dongle, Hidizs XO and S9, FiiO KA3, Hidizs AP80 Pro X, Shanling M6U, and VE Megatron acting as DAC into the G5 amp a few weeks ago. All tests were done with U12T and SA6II.

Of course, there are a lot of double amping going on here, so it’s not strictly DAC to DAC compare, but there are some noticeable differences:
  • Soundstage: KA3 is flat and in your face. G5 DAC as well as Megatron are somewhat similar, flattish but not as bad as KA3. AP80 Pro X is wide but shallow. Great depth, with “holographic” feeling to the stage comes with all other options.
  • Clarity and details: Apple dongle is slightly behind all other options.
  • Tonality: noticeable warmth with Shanling, the rest is more or less apple dongle-like. The KA3 and megatron sound slightly edgy at the top.
Imho, DAC is for fine-tuning. Apple dongle is adequate, though I like the sound and stage of the hidizs more.
good answer that google AI answered “try it yourself and don’t bug others”👌

Also agree that cable is less of a concern, it’s like suspension for cars.

There are a lot more people should care before considering swapping suspension coil springs in order to have a better performance out of a car.

Racing performance suspension springs doesn’t make Kia’s economic car a super car.
 
May 11, 2023 at 12:13 AM Post #78,090 of 151,504

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